Hawke Frontier ED: another open bridge ED bin from China (1 Viewer)

Order placed Kevin. I should have it by Friday.

I knew I could count of FrankD! My recent MO should cover them

I await the report (over the weekend?) with interest!

And reports from any of the UK brethren. Even though they can't A/B the Promaster and the Hawke I'm sure a "Wisdom of the Masses" will emerge.

MacGee: Good eye. I though there was something different about that rough pattern. But I though I was just confusing pictures of it and the Promaster that I'd seen before. Curiously it's very similar to the armoring on the Vortex Hurricane and I didn't feel it added anything there to either the look or the grip. I do rather prefer the "smooth" picture. It looks more refined (and the logo and manufacture name are rather more stylish). I wonder which one is the shipping version. Here's hoping it's the smooth version (but I suspect it isn't).

And if you Google "Hawke Frontier ED" this page is now the second in the list!

Sherwoods blog (a UK distributer) on September 3rd, 2008 has a brief comment on them too. Looks like the standard UK price for the 8x42 is £279 (inc VAT) which is only a little over the US price + VAT (no £ == $ conversions!). Good deal for the Brits and Europeans.

http://www.sherwoods-photo.com/blog/?p=24

A little more research show Hawke are a British company (based in Suffolk) but I guess they have decided they need a global market.

Hi Kevin

Likewise thanks for some further interesting info
Sounds like the OEM latest league of roofs are going to be right up there with the best provided all the phase and mirror coatings are up to muster
Pretty soon an open hinged high quality binocular may be an income affordable option for quite a few more people
I agree porro coatings are easier to emulate but then the Nikon SE E11 and Swaro Habicht and Swift Audubon type porros (amongst others) always seem to have that extra contrast/brightness/resoloution so maybe there are some selective top end porro lens coatings still hiding away
All in all the next few years could prove to be a major swing in the optics world
Of course new isnt always better and cheaper is sometimes more expensive long term (if you see what i'm saying)
Warranties , reliabilty and back up have their benefits
But imho sooner or later the number of people willing to pay 2-4 times the outlay on high end gear will be compromised
Not quite sure where we are all headed with these developments but think there will be a thriving trade on the "auction sites" for early Euro quality bins as the new releases escalate up the price ladder

Regards
RichT

One thing I did notice, or should say didn't see, was any mention of the type of coating used on the roof prism. Phase coating was listed but I did not see anything on whether they utilize aluminum, silver or dielectric. I am guessing not the latter because of the price (though some fairly inexpensive Bushnell products used it). I would guess aluminum but am hoping silver otherwise I do not think it is going to be as bright as the Promaster.

Interesting though the difference in field of view. The Promaster is only listed at 7.5 degrees while the Hawke is listed at 426 feet. If the image is as bright and CA-free as the Promaster...and still maintains the same level of distortion then I am going to have a hard time not liking the Hawke.

I noticed that brief review as well. I was hoping someone had done a more extensive one online so I could see what they compared it to.

If they "make the cut" then the Meopta is gonna be up on the butcher block.

;-)

PYRTLE said:

They did have a stand at this years Birdfair - the Frontier EDs are hitting the shelves at certain Hawke dealers. They have them near me - twenty so miles from Norwich

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I'm guessing this was at Cley Spy... I saw them at work on Saturday and was very impressed. Optically very good, seem well built though the focus did feel a bit spoungy. All in all an excellent buy at £279 for the 8x42s, mid-price bins just keep getting better.

OK Frank,

I'm glad you bit the bullet. Now that you will post a good review of the Hawke, I just might change my Promaster plan. That order will go to CameralandNY on Tuesday. Payday gives me the last few needed $$. So, now I think I'll maybe order the 10x Promaster. I don't use the 10x a lot but I often find myself in situations where it is useful. So, IF I go that way, the new Promaster will have a direct comparison to my 10x42 Vortex Viper. Then, if you have a hard time finding a difference between the Hawke and Promaster, which I suspect will be the case, I'll then go with an 8x Hawke mostly because I think the only perceptible difference may be the FOV.

Now, I'm an admitted nov-fov fanatic, but I will use it to choose between otherwise equally satisfactory binoculars. Since the Hawke has the widest fov and since I will use the 8x most of the time, the 8x nod would go to the Hawke.

So, Frank, PLEASE, bail me out before Tuesday! If you don't like the Hawke, I'll then go 8x Promaster as originally planned.

Great Steve. You throw me a curve ball like that.

Here is my "situation". I hope I don't like the Hawke because then I am stuck deciding which bin to keep and which one to sell. If I like the Hawke then it will be either the Promaster or the Meostar that will go. Tough decision.

If I don't like the Hawke then it gets returned and I will keep the Promaster and the Meostar.

Like I said I am really hoping I don't like the Hawke. I think it may come down to that prism coating I mentioned previously.

postcardcv said:

I'm guessing this was at Cley Spy... I saw them at work on Saturday and was very impressed. Optically very good, seem well built though the focus did feel a bit spoungy. All in all an excellent buy at £279 for the 8x42s, mid-price bins just keep getting better.

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Is there any chance you would be willing to compare their optical performance to another pre-existing model in the same or a different price range?

Any further comments would be appreciated.

FWIW, your comments seem to coincide quite a bit with my opinion of the Promaster EDs.

I sort of hope you don't like the Hawke too. I know what I'm getting with the Promaster. I have this feeling that you will and then we're both going to be in a quandry. Part of me thinks that I really need to sell the 10x and get a scope or 12x+ glass to use with a tripod. It is hard to see if 10x really is that much better than a good 8x like the Promaster.

Steve C said:

Part of me thinks that I really need to sell the 10x and get a scope or 12x+ glass to use with a tripod. It is hard to see if 10x really is that much better than a good 8x like the Promaster.

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Having gotten a 8x that was better optically, I just got rid of my 10x for that very reason, along with not being able to hold it steady for extended periods.
Now I've got it down to two 8x32s and a 12.5x50(mounted on a monopod w/tilt head, and occasionally used on a lightweight tripod).
If I end up with a PF-65 EDII scope, a pic of my gear will look like a Pentax ad...

Owen, I hear you for sure. I've heard some very good things about the Minox 13x56, so that has my interest. I figure if I sell some binoculars that I no longer use much, I'll about be able to get one.

The more I think about the 10x Promaster I mentioned in my last post, the more I think I'll stick to my original plan and just get the 8x. I know what I'm getting. I don't figure the Hawke will be that much if any better than the Promaster, and I'm completely happy with th 393' fov of the Promaster. I tend to think that with a lower street price for the Hawke than the Promaster, plus the added fov, that there may have had to be a corner or two cut somewhere.

tried a pair of these today (ed's) and they are very very good !!!!

looks like they will be replacing my minox 8x32's

If I end up with a PF-65 EDII scope, a pic of my gear will look like a Pentax ad...

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Owen,

Let me know if you do. I might be able to save you a couple bucks. I have the Vixen Lanthanum zoom and a nice 3 piece fixed power, wide angle set of eyepieces that I am looking to get rid of for less than the Pentax XF zoom costs by itself.

I tend to think that with a lower street price for the Hawke than the Promaster, plus the added fov, that there may have had to be a corner or two cut somewhere.

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Steve,

I was sort of thinking along that line of thought as well. However, I am taken back to that thread discussing the possible cost of production of those Vortex Razors. If it really is that inexpensive to produce a $500+ roof prism then I could also imagine someone willing to give up $70 to undercut prices on a chief competitor.

It should prove interesting. I am hoping to have the Hawke's by tomorrow but Monday might be more realistic.

tried a pair of these today (ed's) and they are very very good !!!!

looks like they will be replacing my minox 8x32's

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macbirder,

Thanks for the comments. I look forward to trying the Hawke's more than ever now.

Hmmm, MarkC22 makes an interesting comment:

http://birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1298873&postcount=12

i quite often pop up among the dissused china clay pits on the new cycle trails for a spot of star gazing and to save on having to use up the bike light batteries will go up when its still light and wait till it gets dark, of course i'll busy myself with the bins watching rabbits and the occasional fox ect till its properly dark so get a chance to try the bins in every light condition from bright sunshine to almost complete darkness and they perform very well, even on overcast days they appear to show good contrast. the previous bins i used were hawke frontier 10x42 roofs costing £189 and allthough they seemed ok in the shop and were reduced to £109 i took them back. the reason... they were fine if the sun was out but as soon as the light failed if only slightly the view was uneven and i'de spend ages fiddling with focus and diopter to no avail.... horrible

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Twilight and stray light are always interesting tests for a bin.

It would be nice to hear more ...

I wonder if those comments were in reference to the Hawke Frontiers or the Frontier EDs. I am guessing the former based on the price references.

In addition I am not sure what he means by "uneven". At first I thought maybe there was some uneven light distribution within the overall image (center seeming brighter than the edges) but then I am guessing it was an issue of barrel comparison.

On a related note, if the website is accurate I should have the Frontier EDs tomorrow (3 day UPS). However, I sent them an email on Friday morning and have not yet heard anything.

I'm pretty sure they're the non-ED Frontiers. Just a datapoint on another model.

I PMed him to add some comments here so we could get some clarification.

So you haven't get UPS tracking data from Hawke. That's not too clever!

Hi all,
Can I join in the the discussions? I am working in an optial company in China and I think maybe I can answer some questions of binoculars.
At the same time, your suggestions are much helpful for us.

Best regards,
Huang Lingyun

FrankD said:

NW,

Actually it repels water and oily residue...more similar to the Lotutec type coating found on the FLs.

I would like to hear comments from anyone that owns the Hawke model.

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Hi FrankD,
You are right.
But the Hawke models currently don't include the hydrophobe coating, which you can find on the Bushnell Elite.

the hawke frontier model i was reffering to see pic below was the older discontinued version and the "unevenness i was talking about i'll try and explian.. the right side tube was impossible to focus sharp and was noticable in all conditions allthough only slightly in good light. i just couldnt figure it out and would spend ages fiddling with the diopter and focus. focusing on near objects would require a different diopter setting than focus at infinity?
alignment "seemed" to be spot on and i could not here anything rattling around inside! it could have been a collimation problem? or maybe an ommision in the phase coatings or just a poor bit of glass or maybe a poor mechanical focus mechanism ... what ever it was i took them back and was offered a new pair but it was evident striaght away in store that they were also faulty with a bad cats eye exit pupil in the right ep and this made viewing uncomfortable. also the anti reflective multi coatings are not imo very good compared to some slightly higher priced bins, having the typical green and pinky purple hue found on cheaper chinese gear i could see an awfull lot of detail in my face reflected in the objectives, unlike my opticrons that i can only just barely see my out line and maybe a hint of facial detail.
it would seem imo the problems i had with mine were quality control issues/ and maybe bad workmenship...possibly bad design which is why they were disscontinued???

the stay on objective lens caps where a real pain too and would constantly keep falling off the lenses also the attachments for the strap were under neath the barrels (it was all but impossible to thread the strap through due to the thickness of the rubber around them) instead of on the sides which would leave the bins at an awkward cant with objectives towards you when carried. the placement of the eyes for the strap again was a pain when i tried it with the rain guard and would leave the bins hanging around the neck with right objective banging on your chest at a 45 degree angle.
the supplied neck strap was fit only for the bin im afriad, just a strip of nylon webbing and only half an inch wide.

ps i dont understand what all the fuss is about the new ED glass? i dont notice CA in my opticrons at 8x mag unless i really look for it at the extreme edge of fov also colour is spot on for me... sure they could be a tad sharper but there so close to imo perfection would i even notice?

regards mark

Huang,

I for one , bid you welcome. There are certainly lots of questions regarding the Chinese Optics industry. Someone working there would save a lot of plain old guess work. There are lots of questrion regarding OEM-seller relationships and what binoculars with different labels might be clones of each other.