Hawke Frontier ED 10x36 (1 Viewer)

looksharp65 · Dec 31, 2010

Hi,

just wondering - is there anyone here who has tried this one?
I have been looking for a 10x42ish bin with a great FOV, great eye relief and that focuses clockwise to infinity.

I am considering the Meopta Meopro 10x42 or the Vortex Fury, even several 10x50ish models, but there are only alpha bins that focus clockwise.

So if you own the Hawke or have tried it, please let me know as much as you can tell. How it works with spectacles is of special interest, I dislike time-consuming hazzle due to difficult eye placement.

looksharp65 · Jan 5, 2011

*bump*

Steve Babbs · Jan 11, 2011

It may well be that not many people do have the 10X36, I know when I bought a pair of 8x43 the 8x36 were only 50g lighter so there didn't seem much point.

looksharp65 · Jan 11, 2011

I know, Steve, but the 15 mm ER of the 10x36 (and the reputation the ED bins have here) is what caught my interest. I used to be interested in the Zen-Ray 9x36, but reviewers say it doesn't seem to be very sharp to the edges, but above all I find the ER too little.
Thus, it will not be a substantial step up from my Zeiss Classic, also with fuzzy edges and ER of 15 mm.
I am pretty close to buying the Hawke now. My kids will love me for not buying that 42" flatscreen TV set. Not.

looksharp65 · Jan 14, 2011

^^ I meant "the 16.5 mm ER of the 10x36" et cetera.

brocknroller · Jan 15, 2011

looksharp65 said:
^^ I meant "the 16.5 mm ER of the 10x36" et cetera.

Looksharp!

If you are looking for sharp edges, the 10x36 Hawke may not be the bong if it follows the design of the 8x36 model.

Check out the comments on the 8x36 model on the BF thread linked below. Seems like it doesn't have as good edge sharpness as the 8x43 model, and the 8x43 model doesn't seem to have as good edges at the wider FOV ZR 7x36 ED2.

So that says something. Not sure exactly what since no values are given, but something.

What also wasn't mentioned, at least in the posts I read, was the cause of the fall off in sharpness at the edges.

The ZR 7x36 ED2 has some field curvature but not much astigmatism. If the 10x36 Hawke is similar to the ED2 and if you have good focus accommodation or don't mind refocusing toward the edge, edge sharpness would not be a big deal.

But if the sweet spot is small (like the Jap.-made 8x32 Ultima I had), or if the bin has a lot of astigmatism at the edges, then that's all she wrote. Me too.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=154614

looksharp65 · Jan 15, 2011

Well,

I can live with fuzzy edges if the central sharpness is very good and sweet spot decent. In a 10x bin I believe that ED glass is a greater advantage than in lower magnifications.
I still want a great FOV, long eye relief, easy eye placement, clockwise and fast focuser and splendid back-light properties.
A 5 mm exit pupil would have been very nice too, but since all these requirements don't seem to come in one package, I am considering the Hawke 10x36 or even the Columbia Malheur 10x32.
If the Zen ED2 10x43 had had greater eye relief, it would already be mine by now.

About the eye relief - I often use spectacles but I am very content with the contacts I use by now.
They may provide the ticket to a greater number of bins.
But I don't want to depend on them always, the bins should really be usable with spectacles.

brocknroller · Jan 16, 2011

looksharp65 said:
Well,

I can live with fuzzy edges if the central sharpness is very good and sweet spot decent. In a 10x bin I believe that ED glass is a greater advantage than in lower magnifications.
I still want a great FOV, long eye relief, easy eye placement, clockwise and fast focuser and splendid back-light properties.
A 5 mm exit pupil would have been very nice too, but since all these requirements don't seem to come in one package, I am considering the Hawke 10x36 or even the Columbia Malheur 10x32.
If the Zen ED2 10x43 had had greater eye relief, it would already be mine by now.

About the eye relief - I often use spectacles but I am very content with the contacts I use by now.
They may provide the ticket to a greater number of bins.
But I don't want to depend on them always, the bins should really be usable with spectacles.

From reading the reviews of the Hawke 8x36, the central sharpness seems to be very good. Not sure if you will find the sweet spot "decent" or not. That depends on how picky you are.

I like a sweet spot of at least 70% with a gradual fall off after that, with most of the edge being refocusable (field curvature). Steep fall off, that is, moving from sharp views in the center to very blurry off axis is a turn off. So is a lot of astigmatism at the edges. I find it distracting while panning since my eyes tend to dart ahead into the "Cloud of Unknowingness," which messes up my chakras.

If I had my druthers and the deep pockets to match, and I wanted a 10x midsized bin, I would have bought the 10x32 EDG while it was on sale for $999 with the free $500 digital camera.

The EDG has good ER for bespectacled birders (17.3mm). A lot of companies SAY their bins are "good for eyeglass wearers" but when you add the lens recession and the thickness of the twist-up eyecup above the EP housing, you could wind up with a usable ER well below the specs.

Nikon tends to be more accurate about their ER than some other companies. If you hit the Dromvisten, you might take a look at the new EDG.

Bob (Caesar) owns one (the original version, I think) and could tell you about it.

Here's a review:

http://www.bestbinocularsreviews.com/Nikon10x32EDG-39.htm

Kevin Purcell · Jan 16, 2011

even the Columbia Malheur 10x32

It has a tiny (5.5°) FOV ...

looksharp65 · Jan 16, 2011

Kevin Purcell said:
It has a tiny (5.5°) FOV ...

Correct, but if it's too bad I imagine keeping it at work for those lunch-time birding breaks.
The barrels seem fairly sleek, so the PFOV may still not feel too narrow.
After all, I'm extremely content with the Fury, and it has some 56 degrees AFOV.

But the main course is to find a 6.5 degrees FOV with all the other features I have been nagging about for a year now.

looksharp65 · Jan 16, 2011

brocknroller said:
the 10x32 EDG

Yes, it really seems to be an amazing performer and I will seriously consider it.
But initially I was looking for a 10x50ish bin.
At the EDG's price level I find the Minox 10x52 HG BR outstanding, although it is an anti-clockwise focuser. Cannot afford to make any mistakes with so much dough.:eek!:

brocknroller · Jan 16, 2011

looksharp65 said:
Yes, it really seems to be an amazing performer and I will seriously consider it.
But initially I was looking for a 10x50ish bin.
At the EDG's price level I find the Minox 10x52 HG BR outstanding, although it is an anti-clockwise focuser. Cannot afford to make any mistakes with so much dough.:eek!:

Ah... now that's a horse of a different color! At your latitude, I was wondering why you wanted a midsized 10x? With its smallish exit pupils, it would seem to be of limited use to you unless you're 70 years old.

You can buy the Japanese version 10x52 HG for around $700-$800 if you can find one. Doug had them at Cameraland, but he's sold out. However, I wouldn't like the narrowish 5.3* FOV. The MIG version was expanded to 5.8* (58* AFOV, which would be more comfortable for me), but the price was also expanded to $1,599.

Minox could have redesigned the eyepieces and continued to make the bins in Japan, which would have reduced the price. In Germany, you're paying through the proboscis for the high labor and materials costs and getting basically the same bin (sans the wider FOV).

They make the APO version in Germany too, which is priced head to head with the Alphas. If I had $2K, what am I going to buy, a Minox, or a Leica, Zeiss, Swaro, or Nikon EDG?

Although the Minox has an elegant appearance and is reportedly well engineered, it would probably not hold its value as well as the other Teutonic bins, nor would it hold as much "cachet" in the field.

"Oh, I see you have a Minox," remarked the Leica birder, snidely.

"Yes, but it's the Made in Germany version, look through this magnifying glass at the fine print on the aluminum knurled knob," replied the Minox owner, sheepishly.

Plus if the anti-clockwise focuser messes with your chakras, you will have the added expense of moving to the Southern Hemisphere where it will turn clockwise!

I tried the Celestron Regal LX, whose focuser turns anti-clockwise, and didn't like it.

Pump some iron and buy one of these babies:

http://www.allbinos.com/58-binoculars_review-Docter_Nobilem_10x50_B_GA.html

Not sure what they sell for in Europe with VAT, but they cost $894.95 at SWFA. A bargain compared to alpha prices! You get high ER (17.5mm), a whopping 6.7* FOV, 98% light transmission, and better 3-D effect than you'll find in any 10x roof.

And it's Made in Germany. What more could you ask for? (except arms like Arnold so you could handhold them)

looksharp65 · Jan 16, 2011

No, I don't dare to make a mistake again, but if I were, I would go for the MIG version.
The HG 10x52 are extremely lightweight for a bin of its size. But like you say, the anti-clockwise focuser is not for me.
I let a fellow birder-photographer try my Fury and he was impressed, but hadn't even heard of Vortex before. Even Minox is pretty much unknown here.
I have been told that nobody here have even heard that there are any other brand than Zeiss, Leica and Swarowski
(except for Kowa, who only make scopes

)
So I'm after function, not cachet. The Docter is awesome, but it is heavier than my scope...

I may try the Malheur for daytime birding, but probably I will end up with the Hawke.

brocknroller · Jan 17, 2011

looksharp65 said:
No, I don't dare to make a mistake again, but if I were, I would go for the MIG version.
The HG 10x52 are extremely lightweight for a bin of its size. But like you say, the anti-clockwise focuser is not for me.
I let a fellow birder-photographer try my Fury and he was impressed, but hadn't even heard of Vortex before. Even Minox is pretty much unknown here.
I have been told that nobody here have even heard that there are any other brand than Zeiss, Leica and Swarowski
(except for Kowa, who only make scopes )
So I'm after function, not cachet. The Docter is awesome, but it is heavier than my scope...

I may try the Malheur for daytime birding, but probably I will end up with the Hawke.

Well, I'm glad I managed to talk you out of spending 10,688 Kronors on that MIG 52!

I like heavier binoculars, at least porros. Porros distribute weight much better than roofs, IMO, at least better than closed bridged roofs. The 10x42 Venturer LX (36 oz.) felt like a fat albatross in my hands after about 15-20 minutes of continual up and down movement while birding whereas I could lift and hold the CZJ 8x50 Octarem (45 oz.) for a longer time before tiring my arms.

Light bins, such as my 20 oz. 8x30 EII, induce the DTs. Thanks to Degas (see Kevin's avatar), I found a more stable "grippe," but given my druthers, I'd trade the 8.8* for a FMC 8x50 Nobilem with 7.4* that could serve me year round and absorb my DTs like a Bounty paper towel.

But alas, my poor Lars, Docter dropped the 8x50s in favor of the 6.4* 8x56, which has more aperture and exit pupil than I can use, with a somewhat claustrophobic 51* AFOV.

I tried the Vortex 8x42 Fury and was very impressed with the image for that price point. Can't understand why Vortex is dumping that line.

Good Luck! with the 10x36 Hawke. Let us know how it works out.

And watch out for those wild boars!

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/18830/

looksharp65 · Jan 17, 2011

Nice link, Brock! Anyway, I have yet to hear about someone being injured by a wild boar - they are extremely shy. And the only people that have been injured or killed due to brown bear attacks in Sweden are hunters. In fact, I'd be more horrified to meet an angry elk. Or for that matter, an angry Western Capercaillie.
But what really is bothersome, is the ticks that spread TBE and borrelia.

Before buying the Hawke, I will test a decent 10x36 against a 10x42 and/or my Zeiss.
And if it's too dim, I'll go for the Meopro or Fury.

looksharp65 · Feb 3, 2011

So, I've ordered the Hawke tonight. Will let you know how it does, shouldn't be too bad I hope.
Already making plans for the next purchases...

brocknroller · Feb 4, 2011

looksharp65 said:
So, I've ordered the Hawke tonight. Will let you know how it does, shouldn't be too bad I hope.
Already making plans for the next purchases...

I hate to break the news to you, but ordering one bin and then immediately making plans to buy others is a hallmark sign of bino addiction, an affliction that is known to cause bankruptcy, divorce, broken legs from loan sharks, a lack of closet space (the highly addicted keep their clothes in the trunk of their cars), and binoculitis (not making this stuff up):

binoculitis (noun) : a condition developed from holding binoculars to one's face for too long; symptoms include red rings around eyes, acute cases involve tan lines.

The ornithologist went birdwatching so much, at the fancy dinner everyone commented on his binoculitis.

(scroll down to the ninth term in the dictionary):

http://www3.merriam-webster.com/opendictionary/newword_search.php?word=bin

Kevin Purcell · Feb 4, 2011

You know you have binoculitis if you stand in your closet for 30 minutes trying to decide which binocular to take birding because you'll be visting both woodland and prairie habitats and you're not sure if it will rain or not.

looksharp65 · Feb 4, 2011

Hehe,

you guys are too funny! Well, obviously I like optics as I'm an optometrist. And binoculars are sort of a hobby in itself, just like it is for so many more of us here.

The Hawke isn't the "End of list" bin, but if I get a decent 8x50 or 8x56 for owling and astronomy, my needs are covered. But the Minox 8x25 should need a replacement in due time. And the Papilio 6.5x is incredibly cheap over there, so..
And I will definitely get a Celestron C90 Mak, but first a travel scope. Maybe the Yukon Firefall could do for my lunch breaks.

You see, I do all I can to avoid thinking of the Swarovski EL 10x50...

Tero · Feb 5, 2011

And then when you have to pawn stuff to buy more you are a binocuholic.

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