Kowa Genesis 8x33 vs Nikon EII 8x30 mini review. (1 Viewer)

What you all likely waiting for and asking yourselves. What will that crazy Black Crow THINK he's seeing when he tries to compare these binoculars? 8-P

I shall keep this brief due to lack of knowledge.

Both are very fine binoculars. Both are a serious step beyond what I've ever owned or mostly looked through in my life optically. The thrill factor is immense right now.

They both have their strong points that make them winners in themselves. I'd be happy with either if I could only have one.

The EII has the overall sharpest view if you included everything edge to edge. The Sweet spot seems massive on the EII and they are very sharp almost to the edge for my eye. The Genesis has a smaller sweet spot and less sharp out towards the edge. Both are massively sharp at center with the tiny edge going to the EII.

Field of view on both is generous but far larger on the EII by 40+ ft. @ 1000yd.

They both handle excellently and are very well balanced in hand. The Genesis wins hands down in ease of eye placement and lack of any partial blackouts. Genesis has the best eye cups I've ever used by far. The EII eye cups are mostly great but allow IMO too much direct sunlight to leak into my eyes on certain angles to the sun , obscuring the view. It's not in the optic but just around the eye cup. I have to use my hand to shield out that light.

The Genesis focuser is faster and smoother. The EII is stiffer. I do feel I have more precise control focusing with the EII however. I'm happy with both and the EII might get less stiff with use. It got better in the two hours I used it on my walk.

The Genesis is Waterproof and the EII is not. The EII is limited to dry weather or being very careful.

Color of the EII is very neutral to my eye. Very "white or clear". I detect some little tint to the Genesis but I like both. Maybe I prefer the EII just a bit.

Now this is kind of a big one and could be a deal breaker for some. The EII has what I call the "Japanese effect." The image is still magnified 8x same as the Genesis but what you see is much larger in the Genesis. Definitely noticeable. The Genesis looks more real life in this way. The EII looks like a miniature version of the world but very very sharp and clear. Maybe someone like Bill can explain why this is so? I'd really like to understand that.

So based on all these things, to this point, I'm calling it a dead on tie. Both are alpha type optics IMO. As I said nothing else I own is in their league. I'm a happy camper today. :king:

You will get an explanation shortly I'm sure.

Glad you found solace today with getting out, more so than the bins really, enjoy the glass.

Andy W.

black crow said:

Now this is kind of a big one and could be a deal breaker for some. The EII has what I call the "Japanese effect." The image is still magnified 8x same as the Genesis but what you see is much larger in the Genesis. Definitely noticeable. The Genesis looks more real life in this way. The EII looks like a miniature version of the world but very very sharp and clear. Maybe someone like Bill can explain why this is so? I'd really like to understand that.

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8 power is 8 power is 8 power. However, if the apparent field is a bit smaller, things within that field may be PEFCEIVED as a bit larger. Please remember the reality check on page 74. Also, with the image getting softer near the edge your eyes will be drawn toward the axial image(s) in the sweet spot. :cat:

Bill

Hello Black Crow,

There seems to be an optical effect, perhaps illusion that makes an 8x roof prism binocular appear to provide greater magnification than an 8x Porro. However the roof binocular has true stereopsis.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

How does the contrast compare between the two?

[email protected] said:

How does the contrast compare between the two?

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Explain contrast to me in simpleton terms and I'll tell you to the best of my ability.

Pinewood said:

Hello Black Crow,

There seems to be an optical effect, perhaps illusion that makes an 8x roof prism binocular appear to provide greater magnification than an 8x Porro. However the roof binocular has true stereopsis.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

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What means stereopsis? The size effect was dramatic looking at tree buds wearing both binoculars for a fast comparison.

WJC said:

8 power is 8 power is 8 power. However, if the apparent field is a bit smaller, things within that field may be PEFCEIVED as a bit larger. Please remember the reality check on page 74. Also, with the image getting softer near the edge your eyes will be drawn toward the axial image(s) in the sweet spot. :cat:

Bill

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Haven't made it to page 74 but I'm close. I get what you are saying however. My brain is playing funny tricks on me. Like when you see the moon right at the horizon in relation to the earth and it looks way bigger than it does high in the sky. Is it something like that?

black crow said:

Explain contrast to me in simpleton terms and I'll tell you to the best of my ability.

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Contrast is the difference in luminance or colour that makes an object (or its representation in an image or display) distinguishable.

Left side of the image has low contrast, the right has higher contrast.

The EII has the higher contrast. Thanks for giving me another tool for evaluation of optics.

Glad you are pleased with your new glass. When do we get to hear what you think of the Toric's?

black crow said:

What means stereopsis? The size effect was dramatic looking at tree buds wearing both binoculars for a fast comparison.

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Stereopsis is the effect caused by using two eyes with slightly different vantage points. They offer stereoscopic vision on NEAR OBJECTS and the ILLUSION of stereoscopic vision on distant objects. Some people have talked about having stereoscopic vision when viewing the moon. But not having half a mile between their eyes I tend to be a bit skeptical! It makes for great conversations but has no basis in reality. :cat:

Bill

jgraider said:

Glad you are pleased with your new glass. When do we get to hear what you think of the Toric's?

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In two or three hours.

WJC said:

Stereopsis is the effect caused by using two eyes with slightly different vantage points. They offer stereoscopic vision on NEAR OBJECTS and the ILLUSION of stereoscopic vision on distant objects. Some people have talked about having stereoscopic vision when viewing the moon. But not having half a mile between their eyes I tend to be a bit skeptical! It makes for great conversations but has no basis in reality. :cat:

Bill

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I'm going to take your word for it.

Question for EII owners. Can you roll the eye cups down for glasses wearers? They seem pretty stiff to me but I'd like a friend to be able to look through them later today but I don't want to do it if they are not made to be rolled back.

black crow said:

Question for EII owners. Can you roll the eye cups down for glasses wearers? They seem pretty stiff to me but I'd like a friend to be able to look through them later today but I don't want to do it if they are not made to be rolled back.

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Yes you can. The eye relief is quite low however, so your friend will need pretty close fitting glasses to get a suitable view.

She doesn't. She has trouble with a lot of binoculars due to her eyeglasses. Oh well, no biggie. I'll just have her close her eyes and I'll describe the view to her. We are there to view her new binoculars anyway. Don't want to upstage that event now that I think on it.

black crow said:

She doesn't. She has trouble with a lot of binoculars due to her eyeglasses. Oh well, no biggie. I'll just have her close her eyes and I'll describe the view to her. We are there to view her new binoculars anyway. Don't want to upstage that event now that I think on it.

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It is no big deal. Help her find and set her IPD on the E2. The E2 has an IPD scale on it to make it easy.

After that fold the eye cups down for her and and set the binocular to her IPD. Ideally the center hinge will be firm rather than loose.

Then have her put the binocular up against the lenses on her glasses. She still will see a very wide FOV with the 8x30 EII; much wider than any FOV she experienced using other binoculars. She might have to fine tune her IPD but that won't be difficult.:king:

Bob

black crow said:

..........

...... The EII has what I call the "Japanese effect." The image is still magnified 8x same as the Genesis but what you see is much larger in the Genesis. Definitely noticeable. The Genesis looks more real life in this way. The EII looks like a miniature version of the world but very very sharp and clear. Maybe someone like Bill can explain why this is so? I'd really like to understand that.

............

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BC ...... Maybe this prior thread will help.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=264975

Try an experiment yourself by comparing the view of something close and then very far away such as a distant hillside. Also try Henry's test which is even better and just compare looking through one barrel.

What you call the Japanese effect is what I thought was called image scale, but then I think there was a recent post saying there is no such thing as image scale. I will let folks more knowledgeable than me define the proper terminology.

black crow said:

Question for EII owners. Can you roll the eye cups down for glasses wearers? They seem pretty stiff to me but I'd like a friend to be able to look through them later today but I don't want to do it if they are not made to be rolled back.

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Hey Crow,

Birdforum member JerryLogan seems to have found a way of maximizing field of view with glasses for his EII. See posts #72 and #81 in this thread: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=355449&page=3 I don't have one to hand, unfortunately, so cannot say whether this procedure works for me.

NB. I'm glad your experience of this binocular is more positive than mine has so far been. I noted down my perceptions of the 100th Anniversary model I tried at the UK Birdfair last year but they seemed to be at such variance to the experiences of other Birdforum commentators who have used the standard version that I'm now wondering if the unit I looked through (and took a good look through, too) was some kind of lemon... or if I've misplaced my red cape.