Crow solves an 8 step science experiment in no time at all (1 Viewer)

Really impressive... Crow the Ultimate Problem Solver BBC Science VIDEO -- this crow figure out how to get a treat by successively using one to tool to get a second tool etc in order to get a treat in the last box.

My neighbor hates crows and magpies and does everything he can to shoo them away. But I love watching them, they are so smart. Although it would be nice if they could leave a few cherries for me... I tried to net our cherry tree and they still managed to get at the fruit. But still, they're so fun to watch...

It does seem to be pretty impressive, and possibly says something about a crow's cognitive ability. However, based on the u-tube narration, the crow was trained earlier on each of the component tasks and we know nothing about the details. In fact, the training regimen may also have included task sequencing, so that the bird's apparent 'ingenuity' is simply the end result of being trained to perform a complex response sequence. Until all these little details are known, I'd suggest being cautious about drawing strong conclusions about avian cognition or problem solving. In general, this kind of animal training falls under the rubric of "Operant Conditioning," for which B. F. Skinner is well known.

P.S. One strong indication of prior sequence training is that the three stones could have all been recovered with the short stick first, and then dumped into the plastic box. Instead, they were each taken out one by one and deposited into the plastic box. Why?

Ed

elkcub said:

P.S. One strong indication of prior sequence training is that the three stones could have all been recovered with the short stick first, and then dumped into the plastic box. Instead, they were each taken out one by one and deposited into the plastic box. Why?

Ed

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I get what you're saying about the problem solving ability being more about 'trained behavior via rewards'. Was he sequence trained...I dunno ... Possibly.

But regarding your comment... he did take out all the stones first. Then in video @2:20 to 2:43, the narrator says that the crow was confused as to what to do after the first stone was taken out. So he continued to recover all the stones with the short stick first as that part was what he was trained to do (ie. use short stick to pull stone out)

But it took him a moment to figure out the next step in the sequence. Once he realized the stones should go in the box, he put all stones in the box altogether.

I have seen something similar, but with no training for the crow. It was a three-step procedure to open a clear plastic box for a reward. They first showed a border collie the three steps necessary to gain entry to the box. When it was their turn to try to open the box the dog pushed it around a bit, before getting bored and running off to do something else. The box was then placed in front of a crow. Unlike the dog, the crow had not been shown the procedure. In just a few minutes the crow was able to gain entry to the box and retrieve it's reward.

They explained that it was about the ratio of brain mass to body mass. Crows have a ratio similar to chimpanzees, much higher than dogs.

jmepler said:

They explained that it was about the ratio of brain mass to body mass. Crows have a ratio similar to chimpanzees, much higher than dogs.

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And (IIRC), the ratio for New Caledonian Crows, the species concerned here, is higher than that of other Corvus crows.

On the subject of avian intelligence in general, I can heartily recommend
The Genius of Birds by Jennifer Ackerman (Penguin, 2016), a well-written, solid and informative work of popular science. (Don’t be put off by the silly title.).

eight steps shows a better memory than me trained or not, and three without training is interesting pointer to ability to imagine, especially if the three had to be in particular sequence which raises the odds.

the collie. never been impressed with them, three or four commands on shepherding sheep? meh.
my old rottie/alsation cross would have either crunched it open in 2 seconds or brought it to me to open. now there is good training - of me by her!

mikal said:

I get what you're saying about the problem solving ability being more about 'trained behavior via rewards'. Was he sequenced trained...I dunno ... Possibly.

But regarding your comment... he did take out all the stones first. Then in video @2:20 to 2:43, the narrator says that the crow was confused as to what to do after the first stone was taken out. So he continued to recover all the stones with the short stick first as that part was what he was trained to do (ie. use short stick to pull stone out)

But it took him a moment to figure out the next step in the sequence. Once he realized the stones should go in the box, he put all stones in the box altogether.

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Hi Mikal,

You got me, at least partially. Actually, here's the sequence that I observe, which is somewhat ambiguous because the video was spliced in several places:

1. Bird starts perched on limb
2. Flies down and examines reward
3. Flies up to obtain short stick, which falls to ground.
4. Picks up short stick and tries to use it to get reward. Fails. (*Attempt at direct solution?)
5. Removes first and second stones from cages using short stick and places them on ground.
6. Places first stone from ground into long stick box. (*Attempt at direct solution?)
7. Removes third stone from its cage using short stick and
8. Places it directly into long stick box without placing it on the ground. (*Out of specific order?)
9. Places second stone from ground into long stick box.
10. Retrieves long stick and uses it to get reward.

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Clearly, pre-learned behavior(s) were:
[3] Getting the short stick.
[5] and [7] Removing stones from cages with short stick.
[6], [8] and [9] Placing multiple stones into long stick box, and
[10] Extracting the reward using long stick.
This training resulted in the bird learning more than simply that the two sicks and three rocks were 'tools.' The bird also learned to recognize the four apparatuses (hanging string, cages, long stick box, and reward box) as well as how to obtain their contents.

The commentator hardly mentions the most interesting part to me, which is [4] and possibly [6]. It appears in [4] that once armed with the short stick the bird first tried to use it directly to get to the award. That part was mostly deleted for some reason. In [6] the bird may have tried to obtain the long stick with the first stone prematurely. In both cases he failed.

Food for thought.

Thanks,
Ed