• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Steely-vented Hummingbird in Costa Rica (1 Viewer)

Andy Adcock

Andy Adcock

Worst person on Birdforum
Cyprus
Upon going through my I.O.C list on Scythebill, I spotted a species that I'd ommited from my list but, on checking the range to ascertain which race I'd seen, I noted that the above, was not listed as being present in Costa Rica.

I don't know when this happened and have seen no reference to it anywhere but through the notes on Scythebill, I was able to find that the above is now considered not present in Costa Rica at all. The species previously treated as Steely-vented Amazilia saucerottei is now Blue-vented hummingbird Amazilia hoffmani .
 
Kratter said:
Changed in the just-published 60th Supplement by the NACC.
https://academic.oup.com/auk/advance-article/doi/10.1093/auk/ukz042/5522257
Andy
Click to expand...

Thanks Andy, so it's recent then.

How is a North American list deciding this though, it's relative to a species in Costa Rica and changes their national list? It's obviously going to potentially affect people World lists, even if they've never visited North America so I'd be interested to know the process here?

I usually pick these things up through the IOC diary page, not sure I would have ever been aware of this without my own error in missing it off my list.
 
Last edited:
andyadcock said:
Thanks Andy, so it's recent then.

How is a North American list deciding this though, it's relative to a species in Costa Rica and changes their national list? It's obviously going to potentially affect people World lists, even if they've never visited North America so I'd be interested to know the process here?

I usually pick these things up through the IOC diary page, not sure I would have ever been aware of this without my own error in missing it off my list.
Click to expand...

Andy, a presentation of the NACC: http://www.americanornithology.org/content/north-american-classification-committee
and for SACC: http://www.americanornithology.org/content/checklist-south-american-birds

Niels
 
So the SACC is a branch of the AOU, now I understand but I still would not have been aware of this without my own error. Perhaps where another countries list is affected, there should be another mechanism for making it known (or is there already?) as I would not have thought to consult or check the with AOU to find this?

Were you aware of this change Niels?
 
Last edited:
Several different angles on this one:
IOC also has this page: https://www.worldbirdnames.org/bow/hummingbirds/ in which you can read:
Blue-vented Hummingbird Amazilia hoffmanni (Cabanis & Heine, 1860) MA : w Nicaragua to c Costa Rica AS, TAX Blue-vented Hummingbird is a distinct member of the Middle American A. cyanura species group, not saucerottei as previously treated (Stiles & Skutch 1989, McGuire et al. 2014, Jiménez & Ornelas 2015). Species group epithet hoffmanni Cabanis & Heine replaces sophiae Boursier & Mulstant. (Hellmayr, 1913. Peters, 1945).
Click to expand...
- so IOC also themselves looked at these data and decided the same as NACC did.

I was aware, partly because I read just about everything that comes in the taxonomy section of BF, and because I read the proposals to NACC when they were published.

I think the best alternative mechanism for me is the updates Adam makes to Scythebill. Avibase is another resource you can search, but they will not send updates (I do not believe - you have to search actively). The country lists in Avibase are pretty good though. If you use the Clements list, the annual web update is also a good resource.

Niels
 
njlarsen said:
Several different angles on this one:
IOC also has this page: https://www.worldbirdnames.org/bow/hummingbirds/ in which you can read:
- so IOC also themselves looked at these data and decided the same as NACC did.

I was aware, partly because I read just about everything that comes in the taxonomy section of BF, and because I read the proposals to NACC when they were published.

I think the best alternative mechanism for me is the updates Adam makes to Scythebill. Avibase is another resource you can search, but they will not send updates (I do not believe - you have to search actively). The country lists in Avibase are pretty good though. If you use the Clements list, the annual web update is also a good resource.

Niels
Click to expand...

On the first Niels, I'd have expected it to get a mention on the IOC diary page but didn't see anything.

On the second, how can you actually see a list of Scythebill updates after you've installed a new version?

My list occasionally goes up or down by one or two with an update and I sometimes can't find why.
 
gusasp said:
Not Niels, but it's there! But split in version 7.2 from april 2017. So you'll have to scroll way down to Blue-vented Hummingbird.
Click to expand...

Many thanks for this, I don't know how I missed it as I was in CR in 2017 and made sure I was up to date, or thought I was, though this did happen just after we got back.
 
Last edited:
As for how to see a list of what's changed after a Scythebill update, check out the Splits and Lumps report from the Special Reports page, which can go way back, not just to the prior taxonomy.
 
andyadcock said:
How is a North American list deciding this though, it's relative to a species in Costa Rica and changes their national list? It's obviously going to potentially affect people World lists, even if they've never visited North America so I'd be interested to know the process here?
Click to expand...

Let us not forget that North America includes all of Mexico and Central America. If a North American committee has jurisdiction for North America, then Costa Rica certainly falls within that. Anyone who has visited Costa Rica has been to North America, whether they realize it or call it as much.

Without questioning in the slightest the qualifications of the current NACC members, it is perhaps worth questioning why Mexico and Central America are underrepresented on the committee.
 
pbjosh said:
Let us not forget that North America includes all of Mexico and Central America. If a North American committee has jurisdiction for North America, then Costa Rica certainly falls within that. Anyone who has visited Costa Rica has been to North America, whether they realize it or call it as much.

Without questioning in the slightest the qualifications of the current NACC members, it is perhaps worth questioning why Mexico and Central America are underrepresented on the committee.
Click to expand...

The NACC did have a Mexican ornithologist - Adolfo G Navarro-Sigüenza - for a few years. but he had to leave because of academic responsibilities. It has been difficult to recruit members from these countries for a non-paying position with little academic benefit. The little prestige for being on the Committee is within a small community of hardcore birders and taxonomists, and not with the academic peers who decide such important things as hiring, tenure, and promotions.

Andy
 
Kratter said:
The NACC did have a Mexican ornithologist - Adolfo G Navarro-Sigüenza - for a few years. but he had to leave because of academic responsibilities. It has been difficult to recruit members from these countries for a non-paying position with little academic benefit. The little prestige for being on the Committee is within a small community of hardcore birders and taxonomists, and not with the academic peers who decide such important things as hiring, tenure, and promotions.

Andy
Click to expand...

While perhaps not surprising, it is nevertheless disappointing to hear that this is the case. Here's hoping for the future.

Cheers,
Josh
 
Kratter said:
The NACC did have a Mexican ornithologist - Adolfo G Navarro-Sigüenza - for a few years. but he had to leave because of academic responsibilities. It has been difficult to recruit members from these countries for a non-paying position with little academic benefit. The little prestige for being on the Committee is within a small community of hardcore birders and taxonomists, and not with the academic peers who decide such important things as hiring, tenure, and promotions.

Andy
Click to expand...

In my own experience, promotion can also be helped by a letter of recommendation from a person outside your own institution, with a person outside your country carrying a little extra weight. Could that be used as a carrot? In addition, could it be possible to have a Central American person be a third of a member, in other words only be expected to deal with one of the three sets of proposals per year? Might make it a little bit more manageable to say yes to being a member.

Niels
 
Warning! This thread is more than 5 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

TicoTyler
Costa Rica Declares Two Species of Hummingbirds as National Symbols
Replies
0
Views
368
TicoTyler
TicoTyler
M
Raptor on Caribbean Beach, Costa Rica. January.
Replies
9
Views
647
Andy Adcock
Andy Adcock
J
Costa Rica - Adventure Park San Luis (NW of San Jose)
Replies
2
Views
444
birdboybowley
birdboybowley
delia todd
A couple of Scythebill problems
2
Replies
39
Views
3K
CarstenFog
C
J
Messy Taxonomy
Replies
15
Views
3K
James Lowther
J

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top