Twitch a bird or see it in it's normal range? (1 Viewer)

Andrew · Oct 23, 2004

In another thread about a Rufuous-tailed Robin it was suggested that the twitchers would probably find it cheaper to see the bird in it's normal habitat than go to the Scottish island it is on at the moment.

Due to limited finances I see myself as a local twitcher who also plans holidays to likely locations in the UK which have a high rarity productiveness. I occassionally go abroad to see other species.

I can see the merits of twitching a bird in the UK.

For one thing a Subapline Warbler in the UK is not quite the same as a Subapline Warbler in Mallorca. Okay, it is the same bird but the Mallorcan bird does not count to your British List. THAT is the attraction of the bird.

Another thing, when you go to see the Subalpine you take more time to observe it and probably learn more about it without the discraction of the Blue Rock Thrush or the Sardinian Warbler close by.

I agree you can not beat a nice stroll through a Mallorcan reserve tripping over 'rarities' every five minutes but for me a rarity turning up in the UK does give me a thrill. This is a natural emotion and therefore can not be argued with.

When you are in mallorca the birds give you a thrill but you are strolling and taking it in your stride knowing certain birds will be where you go. You don't get the adrenalin packed nervous journey to the bird thinking "Will it still be there?"

What do you prefer? To see X bird in the UK or back in it's natural country/range?

James Eaton · Oct 23, 2004

Hi Andrew,

As I came up with this argument thought I'd better get in there quick with my view! I can see why twitchers do what they do, I suppose it could be exciting seeing a bird in a habitat its not used to being in. I can't see this really though.
What I do find exciting is the buzz from finding a vagrant within my county (Derbyshire) or within the UK, thats a great feeling. I really can't get a buzz from seeing a bird that other people are watching where there's no element of surprise, fieldcraft or dedication involved

Regarding foreign birding against twitching, I see a bird as a bird, not a tick, so I enjoy seeing the bird for what it is. One of your statements its the nail on the head for me -

[For one thing a Subapline Warbler in the UK is not quite the same as a Subapline Warbler in Mallorca. Okay, it is the same bird but the Mallorcan bird does not count to your British List. THAT is the attraction of the bird.

Another thing, when you go to see the Subalpine you take more time to observe it and probably learn more about it without the discraction of the Blue Rock Thrush or the Sardinian Warbler close by]

I find that a great distraction, the fact that other great looking birds are to be seen aswell as the bird you were initually looking. Personnally I do look at the bird as much as I would as a bird in this country if its of a great interest to me, just because its in a foreign country doesn't mean to say I shall look it in any less detail.

Look forward to this debate getting heated?! Let's not get to too irritable here, people see birds in different lights, thats what makes it so great (well, kind of..!)

All the best

Edward woodwood · Oct 23, 2004

Hey James
i reckon it's growing up in Derbyshire that does it to us!

not an easy one to answer as there are a few twitcher type world birders too - but not many. I second all that James says but would add...

Watching birds abroad for me is about more than the birds - it's about the people and the place, the scenery, culture and politics, the conservation angle, the food and drink B

- the whole experience. It's about learning about other peoples way of life etc.... I became so obsessed with foreign birds it drove me to go and work abroad in order to be able to see some of the mythical birds i grew up hearing about like Siberian and White's Thrushes. The life experiences i've had from living and birding abroad have enriched my life greatly. Long may they continue too.....

I know that few people are fortunate enough to do this but I hope they can see the attraction. The thrill of White's or Sibe Thrush in the UK would be pretty huge (if i found it - fat chance!) but the thrill of finding a group of Sibes feeding on berries half way up a mountain in Java or spending two hours crawling around in leechy understory of NE India for a glimpse of Rusty-bellied Shortwing can't be equalled for me. The Sibe Thrushes coupled with the atmosphere of the place, the great scenery, the beers we had the night before, the meal cooked us by Freddy who owns the birders guesthouse that thrill encompassed everything great about seeing birds in their normal ranges.

It has also fired my enthusiam to do something and my time in Indonesia made me want to become invlolved in the OBC and I've met many great people and learnt so much from them there too. Birds have driven my life to a degree, right down to being a teacher now so that i can have nice long bird-filled holidays.......

So, nowt up with twitching and twitchers, i used to be one and some of my best friends etc etc

....i just feel there's a lot more of life in seeing birds in their normal ranges.... o

atb
Tim

Rob Smallwood · Oct 23, 2004

One of the "problems" of birding abroad is that you (I) can be reluctant to stop and watch things well because you know that there might be something even better round the next corner or on the next pool.

I can remember once as a child going out to collect conkers on a windy autumn day and they were dropping faster than I could collect them and I was dropping some whilst trying to pick up others - that's how "overseas" birding can sometimes feel !

Then again, the thrill of seeing double or even treble figure "lifers" is pretty good too!

I think that the answer is that you are not comparing like with like - both a good but in different ways!

level seven · Oct 23, 2004

I’m not really qualified to contribute much to this subject as the nearest I’ve come to twitching a bird in my short birding life is seeing the Squacco Heron I heard was at East Chevington in Northumberland, only 25 miles from where I live. I would have been well pleased to have seen such a nice bird anywhere in the world, but I must admit it gave me an extra thrill to know it was so rare in this area.

Even in my limited experience it’s becoming increasingly unusual to see any bird I haven’t seen before when I go out around my local patch and I can very much see the attraction of making the extra effort to see a new bird, even if you have seen it abroad. I’ve done it myself a number of times, though not for birds rare enough to attract the more experienced birder.

From there I guess it’s easy to start on the slippery slope to travelling at great expense and inconvenience to far-flung places places in the UK to see real rarites to add to one‘s UK list. That’s never something I’m likely to do myself for a few reasons (like staying married for one!), but I really can see the attraction. For myself, not having that motive, I’d have to say that if I’m only going to see a bird once, I’d rather see it in its natural environment for all the reasons Tim Allwood expressed so well.

Andrew · Oct 23, 2004

Hello James,

I have enjoyed the birds for what they are (a bird) that I have twitched so far. They have had their appreciations they deserve, if it is a fascinating bird then it was marvelled at but if they are dull then they are seen as so. I appreciate birds no matter where they are.

We can not all afford to jet off to exotic climes all the time so I appreciated say the Broad-billed Sandpiper coming to Bowling Green Marsh very much. In fact I waited a whole day for it in the slim hope it would show again at high tide and got lucky.

Some twitches do demand fieldcraft such as the Dusky Warbler at Paignton. Despite knowing it was at a pond I had to research it's behaviour, characteristics and identification requirements then flog through a series of ponds and scrub on muddy paths (without damaging the environment mind) twice before getting cracking views of the bird. So not all twitches are a case of driving up to the bird and "Ooh nice" then driving on to the next one.

I always try to make sure I take a lot of field notes as possible to help myself learn and for difficult species to make sure later that I DID see the bird. This surely helps me learn.

I admit I try to observe the foriegn birds in as close detail as I can before focussing on the adjacent jewels. For example in Mallorca I shouted when I saw the first Sardinian Warbler. Even a Wood Sandpiper gave me a thrill despite having seen a few in Blighty. There were numerous fantastic birds and I enjoyed each one. Once in Kenya I was delighted to see a Broad-billed Sandpiper on a beach near the hotel and it was elevating to be so close to it. When I saw the Bowling Green bird the feeling was just as good but I studied it more as there was no beach trader pestering me.

It is just that I can not afford to bird abroad all the time so anything that turns up within reach is fair game isn't it? There is nothing wrong with me for wanting to go and see it even if it is not a lifer?

Cheers,
Andrew.

Neil Grubb · Oct 23, 2004

I don't understand my own psychology here, but this thread's got me thinking!
I had a great holiday in Massachussetts earlier this year and saw many birds that are new for me, and I will probably get a chance to see them sometime in the future because I travel with my work.

But if an American Robin or Northern Cardinal or some such bird pitched up somewhere in Scotland I would still make a special trip to try and see it. I have no idea why, but it's somehow different. Can't explain why, but it is!!

Andrew · Oct 23, 2004

Hello Tim,

I too appreciate the surroundings. For example the Scillies, some people might see it as an archipelago that just provides birds. Not for me, I see it as place with fanastic locals (the birders), quaint shops, excellent pasties, superb habitats, excellent bracing winds, salt spray on the boats, blah, blah, oh and some nice birds! When twitching say a Yellow-browed Warbler in winter by the coast I appreciate the unusualness of being in the middle of winter looking up at a wonderful bird that shouldn't really be there in a bare tree save for a few damp mottled leaves surrounded by several Chiffchaffs, a few Goldcrests, a Firecrest and a Spotted Woodpecker behind. For me it is the whole package that appeals and I might as well be somewhere where there is a rarity on offer. I hope I explained that well enough.

As for absorbing culture in Kenya I tucked into all the exotic african cuisinie then quizzed the chef about it later, read all the news bulletins on the notice boards to see why Arap Moi was unpopular, spoke a few bits of Swahili, watched carvers at work and so on. Believe me, if my numbers came up earlier tonight I would be aroad ALL the time. But until then the local birds in the local habitats will have to do.

When I go away (usually in Britain) I try to buy a local paper and see what silly things and matters are important to the locals. That is culture in a way

Cheers,
Andrew.

Andrew · Oct 23, 2004

Rob,

Another slant on the conkers analogy, you can sometimes throw away a decent conker thinking there will be a bigger and stronger one a few metres away. So if you have a Iberian Chiffchaff in a tree knowing there might be a Collared Pratincole round the next pool . . . .

Cheers,
Andrew.

Edward woodwood · Oct 23, 2004

Don't want to speak for James Andrew but i don't think he was suggesting there's anything wrong with seeing a rare bird in UK (I'm not anyway)

very few twitches do require filedcraft though - Richard Porter wrote a quite provocative letter in Birdwatch on this topic re the Pine Bunting in Norfolk last year and i think he was spot on.

the cost argument is a bit of a red herring - birding abroad is usually very cheap and i save money when i'm abroad due to the much lower cost of living - £2 a day in India this year for example. If you go with Birdquest etc it will cost an arm and a leg but can be done very cheaply (see some of the accomodation shots on James' website if you want putting off!) and you get to mix with the locals and see some interesting sites.

to reiterate: birding/twitching in UK is great and a million times better than lots of other pastimes. Moving on and birding abroad and immersing yourself in the world of birds is just one step further along the bird-obsessed ladder we're all on.

and this fscination with foreign birds has produced today's generation of 'experts' and artists too, extremely knowlegable and dedicated birders - almost without exception hardcore twitchers once upon a time - no names in order to ensure some of them will still buy me a beer in the pub.

Andrew · Oct 23, 2004

Hello level seven,

That Squacco gave you a great thrill, that is good enough until the next holiday abroad that you can afford. That pretty much applies to me.

As for being in it's right environment, some birds in certain situations could be upsetting. I would rather see a Purple Heron flying majestically over a Mallorcan swamp/reed bed than one lost in a ploughed field in Devon being mobbed by Rooks. So it is relative to how happy the bird and how fitting it appears in it's habitat.

Sometimes some birds can leave you a bit confused afterwards. Such a case is the Cream-coloured Courser on St Mary's. It was a superb bird and a brilliant kick for me but coming away on the boat I start thinking "Is it ever gonna find it's way home or even survive the winter?" Seeing one in Fuenteventura is not so problematic.

Cheers,
Andrew.

James Eaton · Oct 23, 2004

Hi Andrew,

I don't have any kind of problem with anybody who enjoys twitching, I've been for the odd bird myself. If a person has a fellow interst in birds then thats excellent, no matter how they prefer to enjoy them. I said before I can see why people enjoy twitching a bird, its just personal taste.

Foreign birding isn't about money at all, its about circumstances, I have no commitments in the UK so I'm able to work for a few months of the year then go birding for the rest of it, something I'd never have to do if I had commitments here, just making the most of it while I'm young, free and very much single!

Tim, you did describe the experience of seeing a bird far away so emotionally well, you must be a blubbering wreck having wrote that, it really sounded like you miss that promised land of great birds and culture change!

I agree seeing some birds can be more exciting in the UK, depending on the occassion, ie, watching Pallid Swift over my local pits in Derbyshire a few years ago was more exciting than watching hundreds whizz past me in Spain, despite the difference in weather.

All the best

Andrew · Oct 23, 2004

Hello Tim,

I wasn't having a go at James. I can see the attraction of birding abroad but it would require saving my money meaqning missing out on some British trips and therefore missing out on british ticks. It is just how I am, a British lifer is of immense satisfaction to me.

I sort of take things as they come. If I am going abroad for two weeks I don't give a toss what turns up while I am away as I will see loads of other stuff over there but soon as I am back home it is like "What's about?". When I read the reports upon coming back I do think "Aw, shouldn't have gone away" as well as "Well I saw so and so!".

I do realise that seeing some birds abroad can help you see a bird better in the UK. If ever a Sardinian Warbler or a Rock Thrush turns upinstantly know what it is as a result of the Mallorcan trip and that will be a good feeling. Some of those who see rare birds on Scilly or Shetland probably saw them in their normal range.

Cheers,
Andrew.

(For everyone else, I am not suggesting anyone is saying anything just discussing what you say.)

Andrew · Oct 23, 2004

Hello James,

Glad you enjoy the odd twitch, I too am free and single and wish I could go abroad all the time (not having a snipe). Mind you if I had a choice of five lifers on the Scillies in two weeks or numerous exciting birds in Sumatra or somewhere I would be hard pressed to make a choice as both are of equal temptation value.

Cheers,
Andrew.

Edward woodwood · Oct 23, 2004

James Eaton said:
Tim, you did describe the experience of seeing a bird far away so emotionally well, you must be a blubbering wreck having wrote that, it really sounded like you miss that promised land of great birds and culture change!

miss it every day James. It was a time of great upheavel, first elections for 30 years, constant unrest etc. We had bags packed by the door for about 8 weeks at one point! And my visit to Flores and Komodo coincided with the East Timor flashpoint and was a bit unnerving. Was with a great girl though and she kept me on the straight and narow and was a good deal tougher than me at times.... it made the birds all the more special somehow. We are thinking of going back to visit our friends there sometime though and try to pick up White-bellied Fantail - the bird i've spent most time in my life looking for :C

I guess i was lucky enough to meet some of the old twitchers (some from Derbys) who fired me up to get out to Asia. Never regretted a day of it. Hoping to go on the OBC Tibet expo this summer too for the best scenery and birds i will ever see

good luck at Willington tomorrow - ho ho ho!

Rob Williams · Oct 23, 2004

I've never gone haring around the country just to see a bird, so I suppose it's quite difficult for me to answer. My birding tends to be done in my local area, or on a day out with the family, hopefully to an area where I can see something new, or on holiday where it's a massive thrill for me to see 'strange' birds where they belong.

I can understand why people twitch, it's just that I can't do it...money, family, work, time, etc.

Everyone to his own, but if I can enjoy the birds and help them in my own way, then great.

Rob

Bluetail · Oct 23, 2004

When I first got into birdwatching as a teenager there wasn't any of the high-tech organisation there is today. Hell, I didn't even know any other birdwatchers of my age. I had to learn all the birds myself the hard way. It was my Peterson, Mountfort & Hollom that alerted me to the fact that some birds were scarce and some were downright rare. How I wanted to see a rare one! It would have been the ultimate prize. Of course, I never did. I think that's why I so enjoy seeing rare birds in the UK: it's still a fulfilment of that adolescent dream.

Reading Tim's post, it sounds as though his preference came from fulfilling his dreams too. Is that what shapes our outlooks?

Jos Stratford · Oct 23, 2004

Tim Allwood said:
birding/twitching in UK is great and a million times better than lots of other pastimes. Moving on and birding abroad and immersing yourself in the world of birds is just one step further along the bird-obsessed ladder we're all on.

totally agree with this - spent many years in Britain watching my local patches and chasing up and down the country after rarities and thoroughly enjoyed both. But once the 'foreign bug' bit, I haven't looked back - left on a trip to Africa ten years ago and somehow have ended up never returning. It is interesting now, however, to visit the UK as a non-resident - obviously my British list has fallen by the wayside (stood at 420ish some 10 years ago and has gone up by 1 since then!!!) ...but UK birding is still a pleasure. If in the UK, try to pop into my old local patch and then, if there's a 'nice bird', often go on a twitch just for the fun of it - the social scene of a twitch is something very unique to the birding scene of the UK, given that I now live in a country where a FIRST for the country will get a crowd of two on its busiest day!!!
I say 'nice bird' because obviously it's not really relevant if I've seen it in the UK or not - last trips to the UK, I went to see the Suffolk Ivory Gull (which I'd often failed to see in my twitcher days) and the Hebrides Snowy Owl (which was not new for me, but I think always worth a trip of any number of kilometres). Also popped in to see American waders, mainly to 'keep my eye in' cos maybe I might find one out here.

In short, I think we all agree that birds are great ...and from my perspective there are great whereever seen - in their normal range, they are spectacular and often backed by a whole bunch of even more spectacular birds, but if you're stuck in the UK on a dull damp winter afternoon, I can't think of a better tonic than some touch of the exotic such as an American Robin or whatever (even if in some grim Grimsby backyard!)

ground-roller · Oct 23, 2004

A very civillised disucssion!

Twitching in the UK is full of condensed excitment - the over-night car trips, turning up somewhere with stunning scenery the following morning, the anticipation as to whether what-ever it is is still there, finally conected with a species you've grown up knowing about and regard as quasi-mythical (Ivory Gull, Sibe Thrush, Courser etc.), confusing your houese-mates by telling them you were on Scilly yesterday.

Foreign birding probably only reaches such levels when your looking for a particular species which you know a lot about and have made a real effort to try and find - put me in Ecuodor tomorow and I'd not appreciate it as much as I should not knowing anything about the birds - however if I was watching Gurney's Pitta or Spoon-billed Sand in Thailand, Bristlehead in Borneo or Geomalia in Sulawesei then surely world birding can't be beaten - enigmatic, elusive, rare species in their natural habitat for which it is a priveledge to watch.

In terms of watching an individual I would far rather see a Rufous-tailed Robin in Norfolk than Laos - but I'd far rather be in Laos watching a Rufous-tailed Robin than in Norfolk doing the same with several 1,000 people for company.

Andrew · Oct 23, 2004

It is a very social thing in the UK, even walking up to a select band of birders and being told the bird has flown is a tiny (very tiny mind!) bit enjoyable as long as you know someone there who will console you and have a chat.

BF is a microcosm of the 'Tribe', it is a very friendly gathering on people with the same thing in mind. It is like an angler giving a nod to another. You feel good about it. A twitch is also a meeting point to catch up. That is not to say that does not apply abroad as when you go abroad you might bond with a local bird guide and form a good friendship. So it is social when you go abroad too.

Twitch a bird or see it in it's normal range? (1 Viewer)

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