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AGW and rising sea levels

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Old Saturday 11th March 2017, 00:37   #51
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Some desperate rotten bait there.

Swims on...
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Old Saturday 11th March 2017, 01:00   #52
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Some desperate rotten bait there.

Swims on...
Oh, oh, your new personality's starting to slip. . ..
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Old Saturday 11th March 2017, 20:24   #53
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Um no. I think you may be confused here.
I'll reiterate: as it relates to you, same guy...same personality--the whole nine. No fuglian metamorphosis.


Go outside; enjoy the Spring, man. We sure are....


New calf on the fastnesses....
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Old Sunday 12th March 2017, 02:29   #54
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Um no. I think you may be confused here.
I'll reiterate: as it relates to you, same guy...same personality--the whole nine. No fuglian metamorphosis.


New calf on the fastnesses....
Little left of the new personality now but a few tatters. I knew you didn't have the self-discipline to maintain it for long.

Cattle raising, a most environmentally unfriendly form of agriculture. And it's in the fastnesses, btw, not on them unless, that is, you habitually perch on the parapets like a raven or some foul bird of prey. . ..
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Old Monday 13th March 2017, 20:13   #55
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Basic laws of physics--

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tt-on-climate/
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Old Monday 13th March 2017, 21:34   #56
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Quantification > qualifications. Buys us a little time maybe (and with President Dumbo in the White House for the next 3+ years we're definitely going to need it!).

https://www.usnews.com/news/news/art...-mankind-study
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Old Monday 13th March 2017, 22:11   #57
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Little left of the new personality now but a few tatters. I knew you didn't have the self-discipline to maintain it for long.

Cattle raising, a most environmentally unfriendly form of agriculture. And it's in the fastnesses, btw, not on them unless, that is, you habitually perch on the parapets like a raven or some foul bird of prey. . ..
Meh.

And do some homework....Scottish Highlanders forage on weeds and everything else nature provides; they are one of the most environmentally-friendly domesticated mammals on Earth.
Another 'polluter' calved yesterday: We had to pull this little heifer out.
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Old Tuesday 14th March 2017, 00:22   #58
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Meh.

And do some homework....Scottish Highlanders forage on weeds and everything else nature provides; they are one of the most environmentally-friendly domesticated mammals on Earth.
Another 'polluter' calved yesterday: We had to pull this little heifer out.
And you do yours. . .. Animal husbandry in general--as opposed to plant agriculture--is a notoriously wasteful, inefficient and environmentally unfriendly means of food production. Cattle ranching on western rangeland is a particularly egregious example. The deleterious effects of highland cattle on marginal land differ in no important ways from those of other breeds.

Your operation is a small one on private land, is that correct?
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Old Tuesday 14th March 2017, 02:08   #59
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The guy who wrote that wouldn't know a basic law of physics if it punched them in the nose. This statement, taken from that article is sheer lunacy:
Quote:
... In brief: ...That evidence includes a physical understanding of how carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere affect the planet’s temperature; evidence from past climates (in which carbon dioxide has served as a key planetary knob controlling temperature); and a stark record of ever rising concentrations of the atmospheric gas [CO2] that have been predictably accompanied by rising temperatures.
He (or they) ignorantly conceptualize climate as a closed-loop control system, with CO2 as the controlled variable (i.e., control "knob"). Unfortunately, rising concentrations of CO2 are not, and never have been, accompanied by rising planet temperatures. In the real world (as opposed to climate models), rising temperatures have always preceded CO2 rise by as much as 800 yrs., judging by the paleoclimate ice-core records. In any event, if these pompous "experts" were to opine what the ideal surface temperature should be everywhere on the planet, that would really help dedicated engineers to design a wonderful planetary control system — all of which is well beyond their kill set. For that noble objective to be implemented in the interest of humanity I'm sure we taxpayers wouldn't mind dredging up a few more billions of dollars for 'climate control engineering,' would we? I mean, it sounds like a really nice thing to do for future generations.

Ed
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Old Tuesday 14th March 2017, 02:37   #60
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The guy who wrote that wouldn't know a basic law of physics if it punched them in the nose. This statement, taken from that article is sheer lunacy:


He (or they) ignorantly conceptualize climate as a closed-loop control system, with CO2 as the controlled variable (i.e., control "knob"). Unfortunately, rising concentrations of CO2 are not, and never have been, accompanied by rising planet temperatures. In the real world (as opposed to climate models), rising temperatures have always preceded CO2 rise by as much as 800 yrs., judging by the paleoclimate ice-core records. In any event, if these pompous "experts" were to opine what the ideal surface temperature should be everywhere on the planet, that would really help dedicated engineers to design a wonderful planetary control system — all of which is well beyond their kill set. For that noble objective to be implemented in the interest of humanity I'm sure we taxpayers wouldn't mind dredging up a few more billions of dollars for 'climate control engineering,' would we? I mean, it sounds like a really nice thing to do for future generations.
Yeah, well, we've been here before. The consensus for AGW among the best and brightest--and best-credentialed--scientists continues to grow and now approaches near unanimity, while the dwindling opposition gets angrier and angrier and more and more strident by the minute. How do you explain this? Why in your opinion are mainstream scientists so resistant to what you regard as the truth? Are you sure you're not just being stubborn at this point?

And trillions, surely, not just a "few billions". . ..
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Old Tuesday 14th March 2017, 03:26   #61
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Yeah, well, we've been here before. The consensus for AGW among the best and brightest--and best-credentialed--scientists continues to grow and now approaches near unanimity, while the dwindling opposition gets angrier and angrier and more and more strident by the minute. How do you explain this? Why in your opinion are mainstream scientists so resistant to what you regard as the truth? Are you sure you're not just being stubborn at this point?

And trillions, surely, not just a "few billions". . ..
Dr. Richard Lindzen described what's going on in climate science several years ago, and I share his view. By definition, 'climate scientists' are not mainstream scientists at all. For one thing they don't acknowledge that science requires predictions to be verified against real world data obtained by independent scientists (not just their academic buddies). We recall that Einstein said that it would take only one experiment to prove his theory wrong; AGW theory (as expressed above) has been proven wrong repeatedly. But research funding comes from politicians, and politicians aren't scientists (with exceptions), and the show goes on.

Some time back, at your request, I posted a very fine scientific analysis, which I officially endorsed, concerning what turned out to be IPCC's non-existent "tropical hot spot." Such materials are ignored by climate scientists. That community is completely insular.

Ed
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Old Tuesday 14th March 2017, 04:55   #62
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"Academic buddies"? Not sure what you mean by this. Colleagues on other university faculties?
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Old Tuesday 14th March 2017, 07:54   #63
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Yes, independent scientists, not just academic buddies often located at different institutions but drawing research funds from a common source.

Ed
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Old Tuesday 14th March 2017, 14:37   #64
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Yes, independent scientists, not just academic buddies often located at different institutions but drawing research funds from a common source.
So, it's all about funding, tenure etc in your view, scientists who query AGWism being in danger of losing professional status and having their grants cut off. But I don't know what that proves, since it's true in other areas of science as well. A good analogy would be "Darwinism"; researchers who reject it root-&-branch (as opposed to nibbling around the edges) are going to have a hard time of it. Yet Darwinism is the most settled of settled science.
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Old Tuesday 14th March 2017, 20:35   #65
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Then and now: Arctic photos 100 years apart, from exact same positions

http://www.boredpanda.com/climate-ch...istian-aslund/
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Old Tuesday 14th March 2017, 20:51   #66
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Then and now: Arctic photos 100 years apart, from exact same positions

http://www.boredpanda.com/climate-ch...istian-aslund/
Wow, impressive--
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Old Wednesday 15th March 2017, 06:46   #67
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Dr. Richard Lindzen described what's going on in climate science several years ago, and I share his view. By definition, 'climate scientists' are not mainstream scientists at all. For one thing they don't acknowledge that science requires predictions to be verified against real world data obtained by independent scientists (not just their academic buddies).

Ed
It seems that there is some question just how 'independent' some contrarian scientists actually are - see https://www.theguardian.com/environm...denial-funding
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Old Wednesday 15th March 2017, 14:40   #68
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It seems that there is some question just how 'independent' some contrarian scientists actually are - see https://www.theguardian.com/environm...denial-funding
Very interesting article--thanks for the link. Soon & Lindzen funded by big coal. Who would ever have thunk it!
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Old Wednesday 15th March 2017, 18:31   #69
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Jumping to conclusions, ... again.

Richard Lindzen earned his academic credentials and kudos the hard way (publishing world-class research) for which he was elected to the US National Academy of Sciences, and was selected as a lead author for IPCC reports. After retirement he consulted for companies you folks don't like, but that's been well known for some time, — and personally I see nothing wrong with it.

Anyway, criticism by innuendo is what this thread is all about, so I'll say bye-bye.

Ed
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Old Wednesday 15th March 2017, 19:03   #70
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Jumping to conclusions, ... again.

Richard Lindzen earned his academic credentials and kudos the hard way (publishing world-class research) for which he was elected to the US National Academy of Sciences, and was selected as a lead author for IPCC reports. After retirement he consulted for companies you folks don't like, but that's been well known for some time, — and personally I see nothing wrong with it.

Anyway, criticism by innuendo is what this thread is all about, so I'll say bye-bye.
Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander. You started the innuendo-fest, after all, with your suggestion that self-interest was an important factor in the scientific consensus on AGW.
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Old Wednesday 15th March 2017, 20:14   #71
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Another AGW casualty--a really depressing one!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/15/s...ore-ipad-share
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Old Wednesday 15th March 2017, 20:51   #72
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Nothing I said was an innuendo. I was trying to explain what "independent," unbiased scientific testing is all about, that's all.

If you misunderstood what I said it's partially my bad for not saying it clearly enough. For that I apologize.

Ed
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Old Wednesday 15th March 2017, 21:26   #73
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Nothing I said was an innuendo. I was trying to explain what "independent," unbiased scientific testing is all about, that's all.

If you misunderstood what I said it's partially my bad for not saying it clearly enough. For that I apologize.
My referent was not to the post I quoted but to your #63 which, if not innuendo, is only because it impugns the motives of "consensus" scientists more strongly than that word implies. For not making that more clear, I owe you an apology.

Semantic quibbling, there's no end to it, which is a pity since it seldom leads to anything worthwhile. . ..
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Old Thursday 16th March 2017, 02:29   #74
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Originally Posted by elkcub View Post
Dr. Richard Lindzen described what's going on in climate science several years ago, and I share his view. By definition, 'climate scientists' are not mainstream scientists at all. For one thing they don't acknowledge that science requires predictions to be verified against real world data obtained by independent scientists (not just their academic buddies). We recall that Einstein said that it would take only one experiment to prove his theory wrong; AGW theory (as expressed above) has been proven wrong repeatedly. But research funding comes from politicians, and politicians aren't scientists (with exceptions), and the show goes on.

Some time back, at your request, I posted a very fine scientific analysis, which I officially endorsed, concerning what turned out to be IPCC's non-existent "tropical hot spot." Such materials are ignored by climate scientists. That community is completely insular.

Ed
Ed,

Perhaps not so unusual. It seems that despite best efforts to logically disassociate from societal norms (stemming from cooperation for survival, and organization), struggles with true 'objectivity' has been, is, and will be, an ongoing issue in Science, universally, and globally ....

http://science.sciencemag.org/conten...6329/1022.full


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Old Thursday 16th March 2017, 02:39   #75
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Ed,

Perhaps not so unusual. It seems that despite best efforts to logically disassociate from societal norms (stemming from cooperation for survival, and organization), struggles with true 'objectivity' has been, is, and will be, an ongoing issue in Science, universally, and globally ....

http://science.sciencemag.org/conten...6329/1022.full
And this relates to AGW vs. anti-AGW how exactly?
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