ID Help Please AZ (1 Viewer)

njlarsen · Jul 9, 2009

My biggest problem with the image is that the black wing-tips are so damn out of focus, when the background is in focus. The rest can be explained by a flash.

I remembered the Rufous-tailed hawk wrongly: at least in Chile, they all seem to have pale throat except for the darkest forms, which are basically dark brown overall.

Cheers
Niels

Jim M. · Jul 9, 2009

lou salomon said:
hi jim,

the rufous underparts, especially wing coverts, together with apparently uniform pale tail indeed give the impression of a LLB.
but what's totally wrong for LBB is the dark reddish head/neck, especially having even a darker shawl - rufinus , though very variable, usually has a much paler neck and head than the rest of the body, sometimes in rufous morphs less so - but the dark shawl is really wrong. of course this is a 1cy or 2cy bird and i'm not totally aware of the whole range of variation in more eastern birds. i also asked myself if it could be an upland buzzard which is very similar to LLB.

regards,

Thanks Lou. The rufous morph of LLB can be quite dark, as you suggest (see here: http://www.andalucianguides.com/itineraries/images/Long-legged-Buzzard-0906-3-_001.jpg), but I agree it does not quite show the pattern of the subject bird. The beak also looks more robust than the photos of LLB I have reviewed. Perhaps it is a falconer's hybrid, as Larry suggests, with LLB or Upland Buzzard as one parent.

Best,
Jim

birderbf · Jul 9, 2009

Why not a Red-tailed now? In Wheeler and Clark their photo RTO4, on page 85, seems to be a perfect match. The bird is called a Western (they say "Pacific Northwest") Red-tail.

Also, mostly from photos, things like Long-legged Buzzard seem to be shaped more closely to Rough-legged Hawk/Buzzard, which isn't as large-headed or "intense" looking as Red-tailed and some of our other Buteos. Just a thought.

Jim M. · Jul 9, 2009

birderbf said:
Why not a Red-tailed now? In Wheeler and Clark their photo RTO4, on page 85, seems to be a perfect match. The bird is called a Western (they say "Pacific Northwest") Red-tail.

I could not find a good match in Wheeler's Western Raptors (nothing near as reddish as this bird), so you may have some info that most here do not. Surprising that it would not also be in the more recent book.

Best,
Jim

Roy Priest · Jul 9, 2009

This is a falconry bird as evidenced by the jesses so I think this is a Ferrug/Redtail hybrid.

Jim M. · Jul 9, 2009

Roy Priest said:
This is a falconry bird as evidenced by the jesses so I think this is a Ferrug/Redtail hybrid.

The big head and beak remind me of Ferruginous Hawk, but, despite the name, they do not typically have a reddish breast, throat, or head, so that would have to come from Red-tailed Hawk.

Would like to see the photo BirderBF mentions, in any event.

Just thinking out loud,
Jim

birderbf · Jul 9, 2009

J. Moore said:
Would like to see the photo BirderBF mentions, in any event.

Just thinking out loud,
Jim

Here's the photo in question. It has been lightened a tad in Photoshop because the original in the guide is a bit dark, and of course the lighting on the mystery bird is fantastic.

Jim M. · Jul 10, 2009

birderbf said:
Here's the photo in question. It has been lightened a tad in Photoshop because the original in the guide is a bit dark, and of course the lighting on the mystery bird is fantastic.

Thanks! I hope that was not too much trouble.

The overall pattern seems a good match, though there is an obvious difference in the intensity of the red in the photo of the subject bird which I don't think can be attributed completely to lighting (though perhaps the color in the photo was manipulated?). There is also more spotting on the breast and belly in the photo from the book. I guess I'm not convinced yet, though it seems more plausible now.

Best,
Jim

cavan wood · Jul 12, 2009

birderbf said:
Here's the photo in question. It has been lightened a tad in Photoshop because the original in the guide is a bit dark, and of course the lighting on the mystery bird is fantastic.

There is no patagial bar or breast band on the subject bird, both of which are visible in the Wheeler and Clark RTHA.

Scott

cavan wood · Jul 12, 2009

J. Moore said:
The big head and beak remind me of Ferruginous Hawk, but, despite the name, they do not typically have a reddish breast, throat, or head, so that would have to come from Red-tailed Hawk.

Would like to see the photo BirderBF mentions, in any event.

Just thinking out loud,
Jim

A dark morph Ferruginous hawk does have reddish breast, head and neck.
http://www.greglasley.net/Images/Ferruginous Hawk 0026.jpg
Does anyone know of how ferruginous hybrids turn out? Most importantly are the legs feathered or not?

Scott

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