Hermann
Well-known member
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Interview with the new head of Zeiss Sports Optics (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Troubador
- Start date
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
LOL :-O that's interesting! :t:
Mostly I have used "several" to mean 4, and distinguish it from a "few" which I have taken to be exactly 3. For me 7 or 8 would be something more like "stacks", and I would think 10-12 would be getting more toward "bucketloads"
:-OChosun :gh:
Y'know... the SF design would seem to offer plenty of space for Abbe-Koenig prisms... hint hint Herr Schmitz ...
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
Thanks Vespo,
That's interesting. If that is correct (and I'm still not discounting a mix-up) , it could be as little as 1 HT lens in the eyepiece ....
I would estimate that the transmission benefit of a HT A-K prism v's a non-HT S-P prism at the daylight and night time wavelengths at about ~2% , a bit more in the 'blue'.
The colour cast I see in the SF is very subtle, yet it is there (I should fess up that I probably have supernatural white balance detection powers due to previous work requiring high level scrutiny, and so it wouldn't surprise me if others don't see it to the same degree or even at all). I would say that the T* coatings of the SF are likely of a different Flava to the HT's too.
It is interesting to compare transmission curves (allbino's for what they are worth), as it clearly shows the SF lacking in the blue (leading to the slight green ham colour cast that I see , and also reducing brightness according to the CIE Standard)
https://www.allbinos.com/304-binoculars_review-Carl_Zeiss_Victory_SF_10x42.html
https://www.allbinos.com/305-binoculars_review-Carl_Zeiss_Victory_HT_10x42.html
https://www.allbinos.com/302-binoculars_review-Leica_Ultravid_HD-Plus_10x42.html
https://www.allbinos.com/223-binoculars_review-Swarovski_EL_10x42_Swarovision.html
(I've long suspected that the SV has HT glass)
I stand by my original assessment that the SF needs 'more' HT glass.
Chosun :gh:
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
Actually, I don't think that's the case as the extra length of the A-K prisms would make for a faster focal ratio which would increase aberrations (CA, etc) if the physical length of the binocular stayed the same. It would also muck up the Centre of Mass and reduce the effect of the touted ergonomics. Sorry!Y'know... the SF design would seem to offer plenty of space for Abbe-Koenig prisms... hint hint Herr Schmitz ...
Ultimately using the S-P prisms costs about "up to more than 2% transmission" Lol ! :-O ..... there are other ways of getting that back though ---- *teehee*
Chosun :gh:
CJ
Vespo's screen shot is more or less identical to the page in the 2018-19 Nature Catalogue which has not yet been put onto the Download Centre of either the Zeiss UK or Zeiss Germany websites. I am sure the HT glass is in the prisms as this is the most obvious place to put it but Zeiss personnel at Bird Fair would not confirm which components are involved.
BTW CJ could you explain what you mean by green ham? You see green, fair enough, I don't, but where does the ham come into it?
Lee
Vespo's screen shot is more or less identical to the page in the 2018-19 Nature Catalogue which has not yet been put onto the Download Centre of either the Zeiss UK or Zeiss Germany websites. I am sure the HT glass is in the prisms as this is the most obvious place to put it but Zeiss personnel at Bird Fair would not confirm which components are involved.
BTW CJ could you explain what you mean by green ham? You see green, fair enough, I don't, but where does the ham come into it?
Lee
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henry link
Well-known member
James,
As far as I could tell when I compared them the 8x42mm HTs are optically identical to the 8x42mm FLs except for HT glass, slightly improved coatings and some additional baffling. Compared to the FL/HTs the SFs have one more lens group in the eyepiece and one less in the objective, so they have the same sixteen glass to air surfaces. The lower transmission of the S-P prisms is probably the only reason SF light transmission is no better than FL and a little lower than HT.
Henry
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
Lee,
I just checked the Australian Zeiss website too, and it is no help in clarifying matters - there is no mention of any HT glass, and they mention "multiple" fluoride lenses (meaning more than 1 but we really don't know how many).
As far as the "green ham" goes - it's more 'ham' than 'green' - it's a kind of very slight greyish greenish ham colour. I don't know if that's a common saying in the world but a kind of slight 'old ham' colour is a pretty good approximation. It's just on the warm side of the ledger.
I think the old HT models are the most colour neutral bins I have ever seen - but I thought they lacked micro contrast which made the view a bit cartoonish. I'm still waiting for that perfect bin ....
Chosun :gh:
Agree on the balance issue, but as the glass path of an A-K prism is 5,2 times the aperture as against 4,62 for S-P (quoting Holger Merlitz here), the former could get away with a slightly longer focal length in the same housing, and consequently a "slower" focal ratio.
The glass path in the prisms is an integral part of the design. Without the prisms the objectives of the best corrected binoculars would exhibit significant spherical and chromatic aberration.
John
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
As far as I can tell you've just effectively agreed with everything I said. As well as the slightly longer optical path through the A-K prisms, note they are also physically much longer which would require stronger refractive lenses throughout the optical train or again suffer greater aberrations if the physical length of the bin remained the same - which it would have to, what with it already being a very long bin. All in all A-K's are not an option for the SF.
Chosun :gh:
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CJ
I have never heard anyone liken any colour of anything to ham in any way.
Over here ham means cured pork of a particular cut and the salt makes it a deep red colour which kind of sounds weird when mixed with green as you descibe it. When cooked our ham/salt-cured pork goes grey but if cooked quickly can have brown almost-burned marks on it. I suppose if ham went bad and invaded with bacteria it might go green or maybe green with mould but surely this doesn't happen often enough to become a by-word for a particular shade of whatever it is you are trying to describe. Boiled ham is a kind of gentle pink colour but would need some serious contamination of some kind to go green.
All of this is very appetising but doesn't bear any resemblence to the view through any optical view I have ever seen.
Can you tell I am struggling to understand any aspect of your green-ham comparison?
Lee
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
LOL ! :-O
I'm quite a fan of fresh shaved leg ham off the bone - it's a very very light pinkish colour. If it was much older (but not yet moldy) it would be a more greyish colour. That's what I see - very very slight light pinkish grey with a hint of greenish. Some others see it too. It fits perfectly with what I see of the transmission chart.
Lol! fond memories of childhood - one of our favourite meals when mum was late home from work, was hot chips rolled up in fresh ham - yum ! :-O :eat: Surely that translates internationally !!
Chosun :gh:
Robert Moore
Well-known member
I had the 8x42 ht and I loved the color balance of that bin. but I have to say the Swarovski 8x56 slc I just got last week might be as good. Wish I still had the Zeiss to compare.
Robert Moore
Well-known member
If someone on here has both the 8x42 ht and the 8x56 slc ( newest model) let me know what you think about color balance. Are the whites as white in the slc? I am just going from memory but I would like to know.
Vespobuteo
Well-known member
Any HT glass would be in the prisms.
The SF might have been optimized for daylight (and birding) in the first place, but now it's also replacing the HT in the Hunting catalog...
HT glass might have been added later, as it mostly would increase transmission in the blue spectrum and not the 92% figure.
But it's only a speculation...
Did you try the HT and SF side by side in natural light outdoors?
The grey version?
Maybe you should try a later sample...
Sorry, I just suffered a misfire - pre-ignition!
In fact, the additional lenth of the A-K would necessitate a larger prism aperture, even longer glass path and additional weight.
John
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
Not necessarily - sure you probably get the best HT bang for the buck in the prisms, but the HT glass range covers the full gamut - flints, crowns, various grades suitable for prisms - there's 12 different products last time I looked at the Schott catalogue. They could go anywhere or nearly everywhere (I'm not sure if there is what would be a HT grade of fluorite these days or if it is classified that way - pesky definitions, terminology, and language again
My guess would be an eyepiece lens, but it's just a guess.
The SF was definitely 'tuned' for daylight birding in the kind of slight warm side colour cast way that Leica's and Steiner's are - great for pulling deer or lbj's out of fall foliage or savanna grassland of an afternoon, but definitely not Swaro crystalline, not so good for beautiful blue Superb, and Splendid Fairy Wrens, and not my cup of tea either.
I was forever driven to find colour neutrality perfection after seeing a once in a lifetime red rainbow (due to outback dust storms) - all different shades of reds, oranges, peaches, and gold, with the thinnest sliver of soft aqua teal in the middle - luckily my near neutral bins showed an excellent representation of what I was seeing with the naked eye.
That's an interesting suggestion that HT glass has been slipped in recently on the sly. If you are going to do it properly you really need to reindex the coatings as well. It's not like Zeiss to miss a chance to trumpet, and you would definitely notice it ....
I've tried the Grey version previously, and spent a reasonably longer amount of time with the black version too. I didn't notice any change in colour cast between the two. The difference in colour cast between the SF's and the HT's was noticeable (along with better microcontrast for the SF, and better 'clarity' for the HT).
The last session I had with them was in a pretty good range of natural light outside with a mixed natural landscape and lots of colourful man made signs and even a convenient big white flagpole. The highlight was the hours watching a Nankeen Kestrel who had an unusual interest in perching on a red brick outbuilding - I was later to learn why when I saw him catch a mouse and scoff it down!
:t:Chosun :gh:
NDhunter
Experienced observer
Chosun:
The SF was designed from the ground up for a rear weighted bias to offer
its excellent balance and handling.
This is mentioned in the original SF posts from a few years back, Lee interviewed Gerald Dobler, in Feb. 2015, and this binocular was very new
for Zeiss with the addition of the flat field ocular set and much more.
I don't see a reason to be concerned about AK prisms and the kind of
HT glass used in the Zeiss SF binocular.
Zeiss does not need to tell the world all about their secrets.
You can just speculate all you want, but the SF is just fine the way it is.
Jerry
CJ
LOL indeed. This is not what others have reported at all. There has been mentioned a 'greenish', or 'yellow-greenish' cast, and most on here don't see either. Nobody has reported a pinkish-grey-green cast so your unique perception is a puzzle.
Prof Gijs van Ginkel who has experience of transmission testing and has had his work verified by the top three brands has also stated more than once that his transmission curve does not support the idea of a colour cast in SF but of course transmission curves don't take into account the eye-brain system of the observer.
I certainly wouldn't bother taking SFs to the Western Isles of Scotland or Islay where we will be heading in a few weeks if they turned those pristine sea-shell-sand beaches and indeed, everything observed through them, into the colour of old mouldy, bacteria-ridden boiled ham to my eyes.
I have ample evidence at home of how colour perception can differ as Troubadoris and me often disagree as to whether a fabric or a paint etc is blue or green......
Lee
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