• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Help from UK: scammed by Europcar (1 Viewer)

opisska

rabid twitcher
Czech Republic
I am sorry for this rather non-birding request, but I just lack any other contacts in UK - and to make it at least mildly on-topic, the problem occurred on a birding trip :)


Long story short, Europcar is a bunch of thieves, it's even pretty commonly reported in UK newspapers as a simple search shows, but I had no idea about that when renting the car and expected a civilized business in a country such as the UK. They asked me if I wanted extra coverage, I said no, then they said "here, please authorize the deposit" and I did not check all the infinite columns on the paper so I did not see that they have sneaked in said coverage. Now they wave a paper showing that I "agreed" to it and they took my 150 GBP for it - which is all the more absurd because I actually paid for a 3rd party coverage so that I wouldn't pay anything either way, so this "premium package" was truly useless to me.

Does anyone know if there is an institution to contact in the UK for such cases? In Czech Rep. we have something like a "consumer protection office" but I couldn't find anything like that in the UK, just a list of "ombudsmen", but it's long and confusing and none of the keywords I could think of appear in it. Any help in dealing with these frauds would be deeply appreciated.
 
There are a number of options for you here.

Trading Standards, though you may want to try the Citizens Advice Bureau first (they are linked) and will pass on the complaint if necessary.

There are also two television programmes that look into such things

Watchdog
Rip-off Britain

Others may have more ideas for you.
 
that is not good. have also heard of ripoffs about car condition on return. i always take photos, which are dated on my phone, while the clerk is present of any minor body damage when i pick vehicle up.
having said that, i have used europcar in UK recently a few times and previously in Aus. with no problems and good deals. this suggests it is not cultural in the organisation but bad managers/staff in some offices. i would report the details to their head office in writing and with a witness statement if anyone was with you. let them know you have proof of your other insurance which shows the validity of your premiss and that you are taking action with Consumer Affairs and that may hopefully get a good response. good luck, these things are unfortunate but the nature of the world today in so many things.

edit: it may well be worth reporting to your bank card issuers as well and claim a refund. i have had some response this way over other matters as many cards have an insurance/guarantee included.
 
Last edited:
it may well be worth reporting to your bank card issuers as well and claim a refund. i have had some response this way over other matters as many cards have an insurance/guarantee included.

As he signed the paperwork authorizing the insurance, the card issuer is hardly likely to dispute the payment.

If he hasn't already done so, a better first-step would be a well-written and polite letter to the customer service department of Europcar ...who might (or might not) accept his complaint. Once done, then potentially consumer protection, etc, but again as he signed for the insurance, I would wonder what they can actually do.
 
Exactly. I don't think that my bank would withhold the payment when Europcar can produce proof of consent. Their customer service department politely told me to sod off after I approached them with honest friendly curiosity, because I had no idea what the charge is for and expected just some random error.

I will try to see the suggested contacts, thanks very much for those. I don't see my chances as high, but I also observe that this is a common occurence with Europcar UK - just read the messages on their Facebook complaining about the same issues over and over - so it may be worth a shot to check if someone is already investigating their practices and could use my story as another piece of the puzzle.
 
Sadly, it comes down to a lack of understanding of the industry and the contracts offered. I worked with some smaller hire car companies years ago and some were less scrupulous than others - that said on the whole the major companies are generally a much safer bet when it comes to this sort of thing. I have seen a smaller company owner charging someone for a broken hub cap - fair enough - but the same hub cap doesn't get replaced and the next customer will get charged again if he doesn't spot it at the time of collection - this goes on ad infinitum until the car goes to auction - still with a broken hub cap - why does the owner care he will have been paid 50 times over for the hub cap and in reality it doesn't add anything to the value of the car at auction.

As I said the 'add-ons' will come down to misunderstandings, fear of xs etc. Commonly in Europe car hire xs charges can be as much as 1500£ which I find astonishing and is really a practice of 'scaring' renters into buying the top up cover. The rental staff will then get a commission for 'selling' these products. Most of the insurance industry is covered by mis-selling regulations and one day this car hire practice may fall into that. I would cancel your credit card bill and then let europcar try and reclaim from your bank. They may well not bother - if they do what have you lost? You genuinely believe you didn't sing for a charge so you are being honest. You could then point out to the bank that the 150£ charge was not clearly marked and you were misled. I doubt there is any other recourse.
 
This behavoir I expected by AVIS, which I will avoid for ever.

In the past I booked at compare platform with evaluation.
I do this also for accomodation.
But booking manipulate this evaluations !
 
I seriously doubt that anything can be done by any UK authority.

As jape noted above, scams are regular in relation to alleged damage to vehicles. We got done in Johanesburg but got the money back from insurance and I'm sure it's a regular con.

We heard that issues such as those in the OP, were regular in Costa Rica but were very pleasantly surprised and very happy with the company we used.

Very sad to say but you'll have to put it down as a lesson learned I think though nothing stops you giving some very negative feedback on any forum you can find, maybe even such as Trip Advisor.


A
 
A couple of years ago we were scammed by Hertz at Luton airport with a variation on the "hub cap scam" - a horrible ordeal when we were charged for a replacement alloy wheel which had clearly been damaged some considerable time before. I tried to change this vehicle on hiring because of a huge stain on one of the seats which wasn't on their damage report, didn't notice the wheel damage as it was dark and raining. I think most (all?) of the staff were in on the scam as when I returned the car a couple of days later the very surly guy who checked it in went straight to the damaged wheel (a small scrape) with his torch - he didn't look anywhere else on the vehicle at all. There followed a heated argument - but with a flight to catch I was in no position to wait around for his manager who was (conveniently) elsewhere.

Long story short we got billed £200 which I disputed and were then given the run around by all the staff at Luton and later customer complaints in Ireland (their head office). Our polite, well written letters, emails and our many phone calls were all ignored - as were several less polite ones!! Finally my wife somehow found the personal email address of one of the senior directors in Ireland and we sent him a very pointed email (we got an automatic response saying he was on vacation) he must have read the email though because an hour later we got a phone call from him personally and it was resolved - we were also given Hertz platinum membership or something similar as a sweetner but we've never used them again.

I think the thing that worked was when we mentioned we'd been in touch with BBC Watchdog who's legal team were looking at it and that the rental team at Luton were likely to be featured on an upcoming TV investigation!!

This seems to be a scam common at airports (easy prey) and I dread to think how many innocent people get caught like this and by other scams like the one they pulled on opisska.

A painful lesson for us and we're now super careful about examining cars and checking paperwork. A TV investigation of this widespread problem is probably the only way it's going to get sorted out (at least temporarily).
 
Last edited:
Interestingly, there is a disclaimer on most hire car firms for collection at night and in wet weather. In English law you could argue that you were not in a position to properly inspect the vehicle but would have to do so at the first opportunity and advise the company. I don't know whether this would apply in other countries.

How the hire car industry works:
Large companies get huge discounts from car manufacturers. They then keep the cars for a minimum period of time and resell at auction or to car supermarkets. They generally get paid more for the vehicle than they cost after 3 or 6 months. Any rentals are a 'bonus' to pay salaries premises etc., any add on sales are profit, any hubcap scams are profit...

The staff get commission on add on sales but I don't see the interest on the hub cap scam, for the larger companies, for an employee who couldn't ethically be incentivised for this practice. I think as well if someone went to court the hire car company would be asked for all records pertaining to a particular vehicle and it would quickly be apparent if a wheel had been charged for on numerous occasions ie fraudulently.

Another explanation is that maybe the staff had failed to pick up on damage from a previous renter so then try to pass it off on the next, maybe they had an arse kicking for not spotting something so have to get it back afterwards. Also imagine the number of renters who try and say 'I didn't do that it must have already been damaged'. I would think there are very few who fess up to damage in the hope that it isn't spotted and therefore charged for. How does your average hire car company member of staff differentiate between the 'honest' and the 'not so honest'. I have crashed one hire car in Spain and it is also the only time I took add on insurance 'zero' excess - bonus, hand the keys back and say terribly sorry but not my problem...

As for the original question I would refuse payment at bank - I don't even think its difficult to do and then let the hire car company reapply. It could take a while and could also not be worth their while. As AA says there is no legal recourse otherwise.
 
Thinking about this a bit more, I don't see why this isn't a case of mis-sold insurance, so the fact that you signed a contract agreeing to pay for insurance is irrelevant. Insurance mis-selling includes selling a product that is not suitable or is not needed, and anybody who has been mis-sold insurance is entitled to full compensation.

In this situation, if you already had a stand-alone policy that provided the same cover as that Europcar sold to you, then the insurance Europcar sold to you was clearly not needed.

Now the really interesting part is that there is a requirement on the part of the company selling insurance to ensure that you had a genuine need for the cover, so even if you hadn't verbally declined the insurance, you would potentially still have a claim.

I have a hunch that if you approach Europcar with this as an insurance mis-selling complaint, they might well settle very quickly, because it could open a huge can of worms for them. UK banks have had to pay billions in compensation for mis-selling of unneeded mortgage insurance.

If Europcar do not agree to a refund, I strongly suggest you refer them to the Financial Ombudsman:
https://www.money.co.uk/guides/how-to-claim-for-mis-sold-insurance.htm
 
Interestingly, there is a disclaimer on most hire car firms for collection at night and in wet weather. In English law you could argue that you were not in a position to properly inspect the vehicle but would have to do so at the first opportunity and advise the company. I don't know whether this would apply in other countries.

How the hire car industry works:
Large companies get huge discounts from car manufacturers. They then keep the cars for a minimum period of time and resell at auction or to car supermarkets. They generally get paid more for the vehicle than they cost after 3 or 6 months. Any rentals are a 'bonus' to pay salaries premises etc., any add on sales are profit, any hubcap scams are profit...

The staff get commission on add on sales but I don't see the interest on the hub cap scam, for the larger companies, for an employee who couldn't ethically be incentivised for this practice. I think as well if someone went to court the hire car company would be asked for all records pertaining to a particular vehicle and it would quickly be apparent if a wheel had been charged for on numerous occasions ie fraudulently.

Another explanation is that maybe the staff had failed to pick up on damage from a previous renter so then try to pass it off on the next, maybe they had an arse kicking for not spotting something so have to get it back afterwards. Also imagine the number of renters who try and say 'I didn't do that it must have already been damaged'. I would think there are very few who fess up to damage in the hope that it isn't spotted and therefore charged for. How does your average hire car company member of staff differentiate between the 'honest' and the 'not so honest'. I have crashed one hire car in Spain and it is also the only time I took add on insurance 'zero' excess - bonus, hand the keys back and say terribly sorry but not my problem...

As for the original question I would refuse payment at bank - I don't even think its difficult to do and then let the hire car company reapply. It could take a while and could also not be worth their while. As AA says there is no legal recourse otherwise.

The alleged 'damage' on our car, was a few lines in abumper which were barely visible and I'm positive that we did not do it and I'm not even sure it would qualify as damage anyway, so minute it was.

When dropping a car off, they know that 1. people are tired and just can't be arsed to argue 2. they will probably claim the charge back which is what we did.

I definitely think that there are scams going on at some airports but I'd be surprised if it were in the UK where records relating to e.g hubcaps, would be available to any serious enquiry? My best guess is that people are being billed for work that doesn't ever get done because it's not neccessary, can they show a receipt for the new wheel for example or could they show me a receipt for the work I was billed for, I'll bet they couldn't?

Regarding refusal of payment, you could find yourself on a blacklist and the next time you try and hire a car, you won't get one? In the blacklist scenario, I talked with someone at a car hire company about this and it seems, that you wouldn't find out that you're blacklisted until you arrive and try and get your car and having already paid a sum up front.



A
 
Last edited:
I can almost guarantee that minor damage such as hub caps, scuff marks and minor bodywork damage does not get repaired. Almost all hire cars are only kept for about 3-6 months under guaranteed buy-back deals from the manufacturers. At the end of this initial lease period they are then sent to huge auto stores where they are examined, all such minor (and sometimes not so minor) damage is repaired, prepped and then distributed out to dealerships as "ex demonstrators/fleet" vehicles to be resold into the nearly new market, with the older or less valuable/popular ones going straight to auction.

In this way the manufacturers manipulate their new registration figures, and can create false popularity/presence of particular models on the roads thereby creating demand for second hand vehicles, which they can then control the flow of into the market place to keep prices high.

I know this as I have worked with some of the major players in this industry in the past (the vehicle storage and distribution, not car hire).

None of this however, detracts from the fact that you may well be charged for said "damage"

You would also be surprised at the percentage of brand new vehicles that end up in the body shop for repairs before they are delivered to their new owners, with many suffering damage in transit.
 
Reading through these I realise how lucky I must have been with the many cars I have hired over the years in many countries. I did have some issues with a hire company in South Africa where, for complicated reasons, I had the car for less time than I'd booked. There was a discount per day for hire over 28 days and I just slipped under that. I said fine I'd pay for the days I'd originally booked for it could sit in their garage, or they could rent it out. I thought that this had been sorted out in Joberg but on return I got billed an extra £93.

I know this is a bit off topic but after many, many emails I lost my rag and ranted about not the behaviour I expect from a reputable company how it was my fourth trip to South Africa and I would never use them. Basically a temper tantrum. They then refunded me about £260. If all else fails get cross.
 
I definitely think that there are scams going on at some airports but I'd be surprised if it were in the UK where records relating to e.g hubcaps, would be available to any serious enquiry? My best guess is that people are being billed for work that doesn't ever get done because it's not neccessary, can they show a receipt for the new wheel for example or could they show me a receipt for the work I was billed for, I'll bet they couldn't?

A

In the modern day of computers I would be surprised if this info isn't available. The second someone is charged for something there will be a record. Sadly, you are probably right in that there are scams though and you are definitely right in that minor repairs would never be carried out during the running life of a hire car, that is partly my point if these records were made available to a court you could clearly see that x number of clients had already been charged for the same damage.

I worked for an insurance company, leasing company and vehicle manufacturer (part of which involved dealing with small and medium hire car companies) ~ even changing a bulb was on a computer somewhere...
 
My first instinct with our incident was that as the damage was so obviously ancient (damaged alloy had oxidised virtually to black) all they had to do was look at the old damage reports and they'd see that it had been done ages ago.

I was told several times that they didn't keep copies of the damage reports, that they weren't kept digitally or even filed manually and that they just threw them away and made a new inspection before and after each rental. Personally I found this very hard to believe - it's simply not logical that they would waste so much effort and also run the risk of overlooking existing damage. But this attitude and the total failure of management to ever respond to my messages - always elsewhere on site when I rang - plus the numerous similar complaints online convinced me this was a scam that probably involved most of the staff at Hertz Luton. To be honest I knew it was from the moment I brought the car back and the check-in guy went straight to the damage practically before the car stopped moving. He knew it was there and I'm guessing it was (is?) a nice little earner - £200 extra on top of a three day hire. Just pull that stunt a few times a month and there's a nice little bonus for everyone involved. Of course if you are scamming customers it makes perfect sense to leave no record of damage reports.

Last week I hired a car just for one day in Bristol (not from Hertz!!) and the rental guy knew every tiny bit of damage on the car off by heart reciting them to me from memory as we approached the car and then scrupulously pointing them out to me.

I had a very similar experience in Hereford recently - the staff took an interest in their fleet and knew the condition of each vehicle. I appreciate that the fleets are bigger at airports.

I believe that some (all?) of the Hertz airport rentals are franchises - (I'm pretty sure this is what the MD from Ireland told me) and that the staff are not trained by Hertz or supervised by them. The temptation must be irresistible for some. I guess if they get too greedy they get a ticking off or even lose their franchise - but I think some of the culprits simply move to a different rental firm and try to pick their victims more carefully.
 
All damage reports are kept for several weeks and ALL DAMAGE is logged electronically forever. Minor damage to vehicles is never repaired. Always take time to check the paperwork and what you are signing for, and if you find damage, such as scratches to bodywork, stains on seats, kerbed alloys, underbody damage, windscreen chips, fuel level etc, insist on these been noted on the DRF (damage report form) and take your copy with you and keep it safe. AND ALWAYS CHECK FOR NICKS AND TEARS IN THE TYRES.

It doesn’t matter how small the bodywork scratch is or chip on the bonnet or tear in the tyre is...PUT IT ON THE FORM. If the rep says “that has already been noted from a previous rental” PUT IT ON THE FORM. YOU ARE IN CHARGE. If the rep says you are not allowed to write on the first copy of three (usually white because it photocopies better) take no notice and put what you want on the form or go elsewhere.

There then should be two office copies left. One office copy and the last sheet for you to sign on return and keep, along with your first copy. If the rep finds damage that you don’t agree with on return then don’t sign the DRF. The rep will usually note on the form that the customer refused to sign. Tough....don’t sign.

Don’t EVER be tempted to get out birding in your rental car. If it takes one hour to check your vehicle then so be it.

I think the OP will be lucky to get his money back but there is some good advice here which he should follow. Hopefully one day programmes like Watchdog will do a piece on rental scams.
 
Last edited:
All damage reports are kept for several weeks and ALL DAMAGE is logged electronically forever. Minor damage to vehicles is never repaired. Always take time to check the paperwork and what you are signing for, and if you find damage, such as scratches to bodywork, stains on seats, kerbed alloys, underbody damage, windscreen chips, fuel level etc, insist on these been noted on the DRF (damage report form) and take your copy with you and keep it safe. It doesn’t matter how small the bodywork scratch is or chip on the bonnet is...PUT IT ON THE FORM. If the rep says “that has already been noted from a previous rental” PUT IT ON THE FORM. YOU ARE IN CHARGE.

There then should be two office copies left. One office copy and the last sheet for you to sign on return and keep, along with your first copy. If the rep finds damage that you don’t agree with on return then don’t sign the DRF. The rep will usually note on the form that the customer refused to sign. Tough....don’t sign.

Don’t EVER be tempted to get out birding in your rental car. If it takes one hour to check your vehicle then so be it.

I think the OP will be lucky to get his money back but there is some good advice here which he should follow.


That's pretty much how it's been everywhere I've rented before BUT it certainly wasn't the case at Luton - believe me I really hammered away at this! So either they simply lied to me or they really did destroy the records. In any case if you are trying to resolve this kind of situation from another country you are at a significant disadvantage - unless you want to take a flight back to confront them.

In our case we were easy meat - late flight which had been delayed already, long queue at the desk, only two staff available, plus they made it very hard for me to refuse the vehicle which I was unhappy with in the first place. Plus we were knackered and just wanted to get on our way - with a long drive ahead of us.

Also having rented vehicles scores of times over the last 40 years in more countries than I can remember with barely a hitch - I wasn't expecting such skullduggery in my own backyard!
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 6 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top