Which manufacturer would you like to make a 7x30 roof bin? (1 Viewer)

Boogieshrew · Jan 7, 2013

In Torview's "If you could have only ONE binocular?" post,

Stephen B wrote:

stephen b said:
Agree with above- But.... mine would be a 7x30 Swaro SLC with all the latest optics coatings in a HD set up.
So Swarovski- make a 8x30 SLC HD and a 7x30 SLC HD

and I wrote:
"An updated 7x30 would be fantastic. I have been using the SLC 7x30 recently and love it. A wider field and a touch more eyerelief would be nice too and a flatter field perhaps. But not with the rolling ball of the Swarovision- yuk!

In fact a 7x30 Nikon EDG is what I want."

So I thought I'd start a new thread to ask the question:

which manufacturer would you like to make a 7x32 roof prism binocular?

opticoholic · Jan 7, 2013

Not to change the direction of your thread, but I'd be much more excited by a premium classic but modern 7X35 porro with a wide apparent field 60*, big sweet spot, and long 20mm eye relief with twist-up eye cups. Don't have to be waterproof for me. With all the 8X32's out there, if you're going to make a 7X32, you might as well go 7X35 to get to a full 5mm exit pupil (although I understand it would be less expensive for a maker already offering an 8X32 to just use existing housings and a 7X eyepiece). I tend to like larger objectives and larger exit pupils, and I miss the old 7X35's that were so common in the past. But I'm flogging a dead horse bringing up porros!

To answer your question, an upgraded Zen-Ray 7X36 roof would be very nice to see. In the "alpha" category I'd like to see Swarovski make any kind of 7X or 7.5X, most especially 42mm.

--Dave

Brigadier · Jan 7, 2013

Boogieshrew said:
So I thought I'd start a new thread to ask the question: which manufacturer would you like to make a 7x32 roof prism binocular?

Make that a 7x32 porro and I'd be torn between Nikon and Swaro... I'll go for Swaro.

stephen b · Jan 7, 2013

Boogieshrew said:
which manufacturer would you like to make a 7x32 roof prism binocular?

To answer the OP ?

I would like Swarovski to do it. But... I know that they will not most likely do it unfortunately; they already went down that trail and looks like they are done with a 7x in a roof format.

Boogieshrew said:
.........
"An updated 7x30 would be fantastic. I have been using the SLC 7x30 recently and love it. A wider field and a touch more eyerelief would be nice too and a flatter field perhaps. But not with the rolling ball of the Swarovision- yuk!

In fact a 7x30 Nikon EDG is what I want."

......

The eye relief on the 7x30 SLC is 18mm which is fine by me. The 8x30 SLC has a 15mm ER and that too was OK. A wider field on the 7x30 SLC would be appreciated. And for me the field edge could be just like the current SLC HD's.

As to a Nikon 7x30 EDG... lets just say my money would stay in my pocket. But if Swaro made one, I would be all over it. Just for them to make a 8x30 SLC HD would be leaps and bounds better than the CL series. Of course the price would probably be leaps and bounds higher also.

denco@comcast.n · Jan 7, 2013

Boogieshrew said:
In Torview's "If you could have only ONE binocular?" post,

Stephen B wrote:

and I wrote:
"An updated 7x30 would be fantastic. I have been using the SLC 7x30 recently and love it. A wider field and a touch more eyerelief would be nice too and a flatter field perhaps. But not with the rolling ball of the Swarovision- yuk!

In fact a 7x30 Nikon EDG is what I want."

So I thought I'd start a new thread to ask the question:

which manufacturer would you like to make a 7x32 roof prism binocular?

A Swaro 7x30 would be nice. How about a 7x28? Still the same EA as an 8x32 but smaller and lighter.

eitanaltman · Jan 7, 2013

opticoholic said:
With all the 8X32's out there, if you're going to make a 7X32, you might as well go 7X35 to get to a full 5mm exit pupil (although I understand it would be less expensive for a maker already offering an 8X32 to just use existing housings and a 7X eyepiece). I tend to like larger objectives and larger exit pupils, and I miss the old 7X35's that were so common in the past.

I agree with this -- The 7x35 format to me is really where the "sweet spot" would be, combining compact size, a nice FOV, and a 5mm exit pupil. It would have a good size/weight advantage over the many great 7x42's and a nice aperture and exit pupil advantage over the many great 8x32's.

For me, a roof prism model is of the most interest, bringing the compactness and waterproofness and all the other good stuff. Right now it seems that the Zen-Ray ED2 7x36 and the Swift Eaglet 7x36 are the only two models out there in this category. Both have their flaws -- the Zen ED2 has a massive FOV but makes up for that with tons of pincushion, crappy edges, mediocre glare control and some other ergonomic flaws that were cleaned up in the ED3 revision. Plus it isn't exactly that compact, lessening its advantage over a good 7x42 (like the ED3 version). The Swift seems to get a lot of love for its optics but has a narrow FOV for a 7x.

If I could design my "dream bino" it would be a killer 7x35 roof with an 8 degree + FOV, weighing 20-24oz with nice ergos.

ceasar · Jan 8, 2013

[email protected] said:
A Swaro 7x30 would be nice. How about a 7x28? Still the same EA as an 8x32 but smaller and lighter.

There are a couple (maybe more) 7 x 28s but they all are IF. Mostly military issue roof prisms. Minox has one for the general public. 12 ounces, wide FOV and rather ugly if I say so myself!

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=62039

I never could understand why Pentax never dropped a 7X eyepiece into their little 9 x 28 DCF LV and made a 7 x 28 too? 16mm or so should get it down to 7x. I don't know if it would fit with the prisms that are in it though. I know that I would buy one. I use the 9 x 28 as my car binocular. It stays there day and night. It's tough! I think a 7x would be even better for casual or all purpose use like that. It probably wouldn't be as good as the Bushnell (almost wrote Bushmill there! B

) 7 x 26 but it would be thinner and more convenient to carry around.

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/pentax.pl?page=pentax62599

Bob

denco@comcast.n · Jan 8, 2013

eitanaltman said:
I agree with this -- The 7x35 format to me is really where the "sweet spot" would be, combining compact size, a nice FOV, and a 5mm exit pupil. It would have a good size/weight advantage over the many great 7x42's and a nice aperture and exit pupil advantage over the many great 8x32's.

For me, a roof prism model is of the most interest, bringing the compactness and waterproofness and all the other good stuff. Right now it seems that the Zen-Ray ED2 7x36 and the Swift Eaglet 7x36 are the only two models out there in this category. Both have their flaws -- the Zen ED2 has a massive FOV but makes up for that with tons of pincushion, crappy edges, mediocre glare control and some other ergonomic flaws that were cleaned up in the ED3 revision. Plus it isn't exactly that compact, lessening its advantage over a good 7x42 (like the ED3 version). The Swift seems to get a lot of love for its optics but has a narrow FOV for a 7x.

If I could design my "dream bino" it would be a killer 7x35 roof with an 8 degree + FOV, weighing 20-24oz with nice ergos.

A 7x35 would be too heavy. Heavier than an 8x32. You don't need a 5mm EA for most birding. 7x28 would be ideal.

Boogieshrew · Jan 8, 2013

eitanaltman said:
If I could design my "dream bino" it would be a killer 7x35 roof with an 8 degree + FOV, weighing 20-24oz with nice ergos.

I totally agree with you on that. It would be my ideal too.

Boogieshrew · Jan 8, 2013

stephen b said:
The eye relief on the 7x30 SLC is 18mm which is fine by me. The 8x30 SLC has a 15mm ER and that too was OK.

Are you sure the e/r on the 7x30 is 18mm? It doesn't feel it to me. More like 15mm I'd say. I can't find the official spec on the web to check though. Where are you getting your info?

Thanks

cycleguy · Jan 8, 2013

Boogieshrew said:
which manufacturer would you like to make a 7x32 roof prism binocular?

All of them! Why? users win from the competition...

I've often thought the Swift 7x36 Eaglet is a great foundation for building a better 7x. (In my hands and to my face as ergonomic as a Swaro 32mm EL, overall length and size is better (approx 1/2" shorter) than Swaro 32mm EL, and weight is better (approx 1 oz lighter) than Swaro 32mm EL, plus you get four more mm objective).

Yes, I do think it is that good.... now, running for cover.

CG

Steve C · Jan 8, 2013

cycleguy said:
All of them! Why? users win from the competition...

I've often thought the Swift 7x36 Eaglet is a great foundation for building a better 7x. (In my hands and to my face as ergonomic as a Swaro 32mm EL, overall length and size is better (approx 1/2" shorter) than Swaro 32mm EL, and weight is better (approx 1 oz lighter) than Swaro 32mm EL, plus you get four more mm objective).

Yes, I do think it is that good.... now, running for cover.

CG

I've thought that of the Swift Eaglet for a long time. The improvement of that glass will have to come through Opticron as Swift is not about to do it.

A Zeiss Conquest HD 7x32 would work too.

Boogieshrew · Jan 8, 2013

Indeed Steve. A 7x of any size Zeiss Conquest HD would be fantastic.

typo · Jan 8, 2013

Steve C said:
I've thought that of the Swift Eaglet for a long time. The improvement of that glass will have to come through Opticron as Swift is not about to do it.

Steve, unfortunately it doesn't sound like Opticron will be coming to the rescue any time soon. I believe they were willing but their Japanese suppliers are unable to oblige.

David

Steve C · Jan 8, 2013

typo said:
Steve, unfortunately it doesn't sound like Opticron will be coming to the rescue any time soon. I believe they were willing but their Japanese suppliers are unable to oblige.

David

Swift was at least partially confounded by their Japanese suppliers' partially due to length of contract and various contract language. Additionally, Swift sells lots of Eaglets to law enforcement agencies under terms of long standing contracts. I never did get it straight who owns that design, Swift, or the Japanese company.

I guess its a design destined to hover at the edge of greatness.

stephen b · Jan 9, 2013

Boogieshrew said:
Are you sure the e/r on the 7x30 is 18mm? It doesn't feel it to me. More like 15mm I'd say. I can't find the official spec on the web to check though. Where are you getting your info?

Thanks

I remember from when I bought them that it was 18 mm; and the store owner said that was one of the benefits ( for eyeglass wearers) with the 7x30 vs the 8x30 SLC. Mine are 1999 version. Before these I originally had a 1996 ( same version). But, I just today looked in the manual, and mine does not give ER for any of the SLC's. The 8x30 SLC ER is about 15 mm if I recall. Also I have had the 7x30 and 8x30 SLC's side by side and the measured ER is larger on the 7x30. I know I have also read the 18 mm measurement before, but I can not find it anywhere when trying to google it.

All that being said- I actually do better when I tried the 8x30 SLC as far as the shorter ER. The longer ER of the 7x30's cause me to pull my face away from the binocular a bit when using them w/o glasses- to avoid a bit of black out. With my eye glasses they are fine, but the longer ER of the 7x30's cause me to put the eyepiece under my upper eye brow, slightly away from my eyes. Not a big deal, for if I use them without eyeglasses, I just naturally do this since I have used them for such a long time. And it gives a positive rest/ hold.

With the shorter ER of the 8x30's this is not as much of a case.

Boogieshrew · Jan 9, 2013

stephen b said:
I remember from when I bought them that it was 18 mm; and the store owner said that was one of the benefits ( for eyeglass wearers) with the 7x30 vs the 8x30 SLC. Mine are 1999 version. Before these I originally had a 1996 ( same version). But, I just today looked in the manual, and mine does not give ER for any of the SLC's. The 8x30 SLC ER is about 15 mm if I recall. Also I have had the 7x30 and 8x30 SLC's side by side and the measured ER is larger on the 7x30. I know I have also read the 18 mm measurement before, but I can not find it anywhere when trying to google it.

All that being said- I actually do better when I tried the 8x30 SLC as far as the shorter ER. The longer ER of the 7x30's cause me to pull my face away from the binocular a bit when using them w/o glasses- to avoid a bit of black out. With my eye glasses they are fine, but the longer ER of the 7x30's cause me to put the eyepiece under my upper eye brow, slightly away from my eyes. Not a big deal, for if I use them without eyeglasses, I just naturally do this since I have used them for such a long time. And it gives a positive rest/ hold.

With the shorter ER of the 8x30's this is not as much of a case.

Thanks Stephen, very interesting. As I said, I can find no specs on the 'net so it's good to know.
E/R is a funny thing- seems to me you can't put too much emphasis on the figures, you just have to try them to see if they work for you.

stephen b · Jan 9, 2013

Boogieshrew said:
Thanks Stephen, very interesting. As I said, I can find no specs on the 'net so it's good to know.
E/R is a funny thing- seems to me you can't put too much emphasis on the figures, you just have to try them to see if they work for you.

Fully agree.

Which manufacturer would you like to make a 7x30 roof bin? (1 Viewer)

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