• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Ptilinopus mercierii (1 Viewer)

Maybe here (French Polynesia and Elysée Mercier) makes him more likely.
To add a bit more details: you can see a larger view of this moss specimen [here].
This is a specimen from the collection ("Herb." = herbier = herbarium) of Émil Bescherelle.
Émil[e] Bescherelle is the author of [this] 1995 work, which is about mosses of Tahiti and the islands of Nukahiva and Mangareva. Therein, he cites Mercier several times (p. 12, 16, 20, 24, 58), as having collected at Nukahiva, Maquesas Is -- which is of course the same as Noukiva, and the type locality of the pigeon.

The odds that the collector of the moss is also the collector of the bird are very high. But indeed the main caveat is that "Élysée" does not appear to be written on the specimen itself -- and, if it was added a posteriori, it might conceivably be a confusion similar to that seemingly involving "J. Mercier" on the MNHN website.

Most of the Mercier herbarium was apparently given to the Boissier herbarium after Élysée's death. What was not, passed to his son, Louis Mercier, who finally gave it to the "Conservatoire Botanique" of Geneva in 1913: see [here], p.179. But only plants from France and Switzerland are mentioned there. Searching for "Herbier Boisset" and "Mercier" produces a fair number of results, but at first sight I see none that is about plants collected in exotic places here either. I don't think it very likely that someone who maintained his own herbarium would have given away all his specimens on his return from a far-away country, hence not seeing any suggestion that the Mercier herbarium included specimens from abroad, seems a bit odd to me.
 
Last edited:
I don't think it very likely that someone who maintained his own herbarium would have given away all his specimens on his return from a far-away country, hence not seeing any suggestion that the Mercier herbarium included specimens from abroad, seems a bit odd to me.

Just a guess. If you read OD of the dove here he was part of the expedition by Abel Aubert du Petit-Thouars. Maybe all collections went into ownership of France as sponsor of the expedition? It might make sense to check the botanical part here (unfortunately no search function in this document) as well.

P.S. Thought as well about the physician Louis Auguste Mercier (1811–1882) (as he might be as a doctor interested in plants as well) but from his necrology here I seen no traveling and collection either.
 
Just a guess. If you read OD of the dove here he was part of the expedition by Abel Aubert du Petit-Thouars. Maybe all collections went into ownership of France as sponsor of the expedition? It might make sense to check the botanical part here (unfortunately no search function in this document) as well.

P.S. Thought as well about the physician Louis Auguste Mercier (1811–1882) (as he might be as a doctor interested in plants as well) but from his necrology here I seen no traveling and collection either.
As I wrote earlier, the specimens directly entered the MNHN collection on the name M. Mercier.
 
Just a guess. If you read OD of the dove here he was part of the expedition by Abel Aubert du Petit-Thouars. Maybe all collections went into ownership of France as sponsor of the expedition? It might make sense to check the botanical part here (unfortunately no search function in this document) as well.
I don't see any Mercier in the Botanique either and, actually, the shortness of this work (34 pp.) makes me doubt that they had a dedicated botanist on board. I've also tried the first volumes of the work, by Du Petit-Thouars himself, which relate the voyage ("Relation"), but I couldn't find any reference to him there either. So far as I can judge, the naturalists on board where Néboux and Fillieux, see [here] for example. Additionally, the text [here] reports that the weather was quite bad when la Vénus reached Nou-ka-Hiva (the last of the Marquesas Islands that they recognised), and doesn't even suggest that they disembarked. Du Petit-Thouars just says that they sailed around the island by the East and the North, and then left.

The whole section titled "Sur le genre Ptilinope et sur la division à y introduire" (pp.218-269), in Prévost & O. des Mur's Zoologie, seems largely a digression about the content of their new genus Kurukuru -- a good part of it deals with birds that were not from the voyage of la Vénus at all, and it seems likely that this applies to Kurukuru mericierii as well.
 
But I am not sure if Ptilinopus mercierii is mentioned in Prévosts Les pigeons .
Les pigeons is now [on BHL] (and the Prévost volume is also [here]).
Ptilinopus mercierii is not there -- which was expected if the specimen was brought back in 1848, and the name made available in the Zoologie of la Vénus, as both were after Les pigeons was issued.
It is in Bonaparte's Iconographie des pigeons, non figurés par Mme Knip (Mlle Pauline Decourcelles) dans les deux volumes de MM. Temminck et Florent Prévost: [here]. Bonaparte wrote that Mercier was on the Vénus, but I suspect this was merely than his reading of Prévost & O. des Murs' writings.
 
Last edited:
And here it says "1847".

Not such a long life. And not far away.

I gave this trace another try and think J. Mercier is Jacques Mercier. Author of...

Les noms des plantes dans la province du Wällo (Ethiopie), Abbay, 1980, n° 11, pp. 181-202.

M. Mercier may just mean Monsieur Mercier (but of course can be Marcel, Michaël etc.). Hope this was not already mentioned in this discussion as I did not read each end every post again ;)

Anyway here he might be the Mercier (Statuaire) even if I have no clue what a statuaire means.
 
Last edited:
Sorry Martin, agreed, I strongly doubt that Monsieur Jacques Mercier, author of "Les noms des plantes dans la province du Wällo (Ethiopie), Abbay, 1980, n° 11, pp. 181-202." is "our" guy, from the 1840's ... (see here). ;) His latest piece is from 2012.

But I´m pretty sure the M. in "M. Mercier" is for Monsieur, as the preceding pages (of the OD) mentions "M. Gould" (i.e. John Gould), "MM. Homron et Jaquinot" ("MM." is plural for Messieurs; i.e.; Jacques Bernard Hombron & Honoré Jaquinot), "M. Temminck" (i.e. Coenraad Jacob Temminck) ... and onwards.

As I understand it statuiare means the makers of statues, in this context possibly of taxidermic mounts?

I think we're stuck with simply "M. Mercier" (most likely; Monsieur P. Mercier), but this far I wouldn't dare to claim more than what's written in the OD ...

/B
--
 
Last edited:
Sorry about confusion. My post was related to posts #34 till #36. I feel no real evidence that J. Mercier is correct for our man (1848) and it is just an error on MNHN web page derived from the Ethiopian Jacques Mercier (but just my opinion). As I wrote on the label is M. Mercier.

P.S. And we shouldn't forget:

Here is what I got from the Museum:

On June 8th 1848 they registered a donation from M. Mercier :
- 93 plants from the Marquesian Is
- 38 plants from Brazil and Chile

Not Marie Philippe Mercier 1781-1831 who travelled in Martinique and stayed in Geneva
Not Elysée Mercier de Copey 1802-1863, botanist from Genes.
And there are no other Mercier in the archives.
 
Last edited:
Sure we had that earlier in this thread. The only think I doubt is...

And here it says "1847".

Not such a long life. And not far away.


I think the J. derived from the Ethiopan collector Jacques Mercier. And as I wrote on the label is no J. So there is no evidence for me that J. was part of his name.
 
Maybe, possibly (if anyone have access to it!?) Bibliographie de Tahiti et de la Polynésie française, by Patrick O'Reilly & Édouard Reitman (1967) could have something to add regarding the obscure Mr Mercier... (as of here, however no full view, click on the "magnifying glass"; Recherche dans le document, and you'll get):
p.648
Mercier et Devois, 1844
p.298
Kurukuru de Mercier, des Marquises
p.427
Rochefort, impr. de Mercier et Devois, 1844
p.432
MERCIER, André
p.993
Mercier, A(...)Mercier, J. 8739
p.131
Rochefort, impr. de Mercier et Devois, 1844
p.774
8738 MERCIER, Jacques
Otherwise, I´ve got nothing new (still/stuck as in post #50), and this is as far as I can reach. I'm done on this guy.

Good luck finding him.

Björn
 
• p.648
Mercier et Devois, 1844
• p.298
Rochefort, impr. de Mercier et Devois, 1844

Rochefort, impr. de Mercier et Devois, 1844
• p.774
All of these are in reference to the printer of Voyage aux îles Mangareva (Océanie) / par P.-A. Lesson ; publié avec des annotations par R.-P. Lesson.
http://lesson.odsas.net/Publications/mangareva.pdf . Jacques and Andre are interesting.
 
MERCIER, André

I assume André Mercier is not our guy. If we read here...

Mercier (André): Le kava, boisson sociale des îles d'Océanie. Missions catholiques (Paris), 1937, 69 (2374) p. 391-400

...I would be surprised if he was still publishing in 1937.

May or my not Jacques Alfred Mercier is our guy?


Né le 9 mai 1821 (mercredi) - Lyon,69123,Rhône,Rhône-Alpes,FRANCE
Décédé le 15 décembre 1862 (lundi) - Papeete,98714,Archipel de la Société Îles-du-Vent,Polynésie Française,FRANCE,Iles du Vent, à l'âge de 41 ans
 
Last edited:
Maybe the Botanical section in the Paris museum has more details, as he was attached on a moment to the Gardens and he collected herbarium material for the museum. Any-one a contact there?
 
The Eponym Dictionary of Birds claims:
Red-moustached Fruit Dove Ptilinopus mercierii Des Murs & Prevost 1849 EXTINCT
The describer honoured ' M[onsieur] Mercier' when naming this dove. The type specimen was collected by Mercier on the island of Nuku Hiva (French Polynesia) and brought by him to the Paris museum (1848). He may have been a relative of Philippe Mercier (1781-1831) a botanist who collected in the Americas.
 
Well time marches on and a few more documents come to light. The attached is interesting. This is the manifest of the Hudsons Bay Company barque Vancouver - she served on the route between London, England and Fort Victoria on Vancouver Island but periodically visited Hawaii (where this passenger list is from). The date is 30/4/1846 and the next port of call is Columbia River. There are 4 men traveling on French passports:

M. Le Mercier
Bertram ?Grarsia
Francois le Page
Nicholas Le Page

Hard to say if these gentlemen are leaving the Pacific or just arriving but I think there is good reason to think this Le Mercier is our man.

The other interesting thing about these records is the date the French–Tahitian War (1844–1847) sits smack bang in the middle of the collection dates making a military connection likely.

Of particular interest are the Hawaiians aboard on the way back/to the sawmills of Canada.
 

Attachments

  • 45714_302022005599_0050-00002.jpg
    2.9 MB · Views: 4
Last edited:
The closest port to the Columbia River is the Port of Kalama. John Kalama was a full-blooded Hawaiian employee of the Hudson's Bay Company .??
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top