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Vietnam March 2019

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Old Friday 17th August 2018, 18:14   #1
Pash44
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Vietnam March 2019

Hi All

I am in early stages of planning a trip to Vietnam in early March 2019 after a cycling tour from Ho Chi Minh to Saigon. This will be at the end of a 7 week trip and my wife is not keen to add on a Vietnamese leg so I am looking to see if anyone is up for a shared trip. I would plan to use guides in some places due to language and logistics issues and will definitely start from Hanoi to do northern sites and am open to central and south for a maximum trip of 3 weeks. If this is too long, still get in touch as I am still flexible. North will focus on Cuc Phuong and Tam Dao with possibility of Sa Pa. I have not birded Vietnam before so there should be lots of new birds.
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Old Saturday 18th August 2018, 11:41   #2
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I might be able to swing a leave pass for a week, but not 3. If that could work with you let me know!
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Old Saturday 18th August 2018, 22:02   #3
Colin.wood2
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Hi,
I'm definitely up for three weeks in Vietnam North, Central and South.
Please send details and possible itinerary to [email protected].
Tx
Colin Wood



I am in early stages of planning a trip to Vietnam in early March 2019 after a cycling tour from Ho Chi Minh to Saigon. This will be at the end of a 7 week trip and my wife is not keen to add on a Vietnamese leg so I am looking to see if anyone is up for a shared trip. I would plan to use guides in some places due to language and logistics issues and will definitely start from Hanoi to do northern sites and am open to central and south for a maximum trip of 3 weeks. If this is too long, still get in touch as I am still flexible. North will focus on Cuc Phuong and Tam Dao with possibility of Sa Pa. I have not birded Vietnam before so there should be lots of new birds.[/quote]
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Old Sunday 19th August 2018, 06:33   #4
James Lowther
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Hi, access to the birding trails at tam Dao has been difficult from 2017 up until at least April this year. There’s a thread about it elsewhere on birdforum.
Also the “old” fansipan trail from the love waterfall car park was overgrown and impossible to follow for long in April.
But a guide could help round either of those issues (I was alone)
Cheers
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Old Sunday 19th August 2018, 08:12   #5
Pash44
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Thanks James
Having read lots of trip reports and hearing many tales of access issues - guided is my preference. Best birds, easier logistics and insider info on best local food is a winning combo!
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Old Sunday 19th August 2018, 09:06   #6
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It might well work for you to do a week - depends on numbers we get in the end but let's keep in touch as plan develops.

Pash

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I might be able to swing a leave pass for a week, but not 3. If that could work with you let me know!
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Old Sunday 19th August 2018, 09:07   #7
Pash44
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Great news Colin

Will send you an email shortly with more details.

Best wishes
Pash
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Old Wednesday 22nd August 2018, 12:37   #8
mjh73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pash44 View Post
It might well work for you to do a week - depends on numbers we get in the end but let's keep in touch as plan develops.

Pash
No worries, thanks Pash
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Old Thursday 23rd August 2018, 13:50   #9
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Update

Some interest already but 1 space and still gathering prices for a 3 week itinerary. Should come in around $3k for 3 weeks. If you would rather contact me directly, rather than posting here please email me on

[email protected]

Many thanks
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Old Monday 10th September 2018, 23:51   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pash44 View Post
Some interest already but 1 space and still gathering prices for a 3 week itinerary. Should come in around $3k for 3 weeks. If you would rather contact me directly, rather than posting here please email me on

[email protected]

Many thanks
I visited Cat tien, Dalat, cuc phuong and sapa, alone. 4 weeks. It was easy, saw lots, no problems. Spent about 1000 dollars.
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Old Wednesday 12th September 2018, 13:16   #11
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Some more details on Vietnam itinerary with goal of finding most of the Endemics/Near-Endemics of Vietnam. 2 spaces remaining.

22 day North, Central Highlands and South trip with well-respected guide and drivers, transport including boat trips, internal flights, accommodation park and hide fees.

Itinerary will cover Cuc Phuong, Tam Dao (or alternatives), Van Long, Danang, Bach Ma, Tu Mo Rong, Mang Den, Dalat, Bi Duop, Di Linh and Cat Tien.

Special targets include Golden-winged Laughingthrush, Red-tailed Laughingthrush, Chestnut-eared Laughingthrush, Grey-crowned Crocia, Germain's Peacock Pheasant, Sooty Babbler, Vietnamese Cutia, Black-crowned Barwing, Blue-rumped Pitta, Bar-bellied Pitta, Collared Laughingthrush and Short-tailed Scimitar Babbler amongst others

Departure date from Hanoi March 9th 2019

PM me if you are interested for full details
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Old Friday 5th October 2018, 14:43   #12
Colin.wood2
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Tx Pash
Number person 3 4 5 6
Payment / person 6000 3720 2930 2400 2080 1900
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Old Friday 5th October 2018, 14:53   #13
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Tx Pash,
As there are now effectively 3 of us. cost would be very good for additional folks.

Here are the prices
Number of birders 4 5 6
Cost / person (approx.) $2,400 $2080 $1900

Anyone interested in joining us Please write to Pash and ask for the itinerary.

Once again this is a 22 day tour and starts 9th March.
Colin
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Old Wednesday 14th November 2018, 11:10   #14
Pash44
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Vietnam March 2019

Unfortunately due to illness we have lost 1 participant from this trip. Options to do full 22 days (North - Central - South) or single/double legs. Small group confirmed - looking for 1 or 2 more. PM me if you would like further details. Thanks
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Old Saturday 1st December 2018, 03:17   #15
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Pash is travelling at the moment, but there are still seats available if you are thinking of jumping on!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
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Old Friday 18th January 2019, 08:51   #16
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Trip is now full

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjh73 View Post
Pash is travelling at the moment, but there are still seats available if you are thinking of jumping on!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
We now have a full trip - report will follow in due course.
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Old Tuesday 25th June 2019, 21:24   #17
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Trip Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pash44 View Post
We now have a full trip - report will follow in due course.
Vietnam Trip Report available here

https://www.cloudbirders.com/triprep...03_03_2019.pdf
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Old Wednesday 26th June 2019, 13:16   #18
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nice report!

But I politely disagree with this sentence:
"As we were travelling with a guide. I have not included GPS locations as I believe only those birding independently should share such information. Some locations should only be birded with a guide as noted in the detailed text below"
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Old Wednesday 26th June 2019, 19:07   #19
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Sorry Lieven, but I think not giving out details on locations of birds in Vietnam is a very wise decision indeed.
I think you should only share them with people you know.
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Old Thursday 27th June 2019, 05:18   #20
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I agree about not sharing too many details about certain species in countries where birds get trapped, but I just don’t think this was Vietnam-specific.
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Old Thursday 27th June 2019, 11:45   #21
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While the issues around certain countries and the exposure to trapping is one reason for not sharing GPS locations, the point about guiding is more that we had employed a local guide who took us to locations that he has developed where our chances of seeing target birds were significantly improved.

That is his livelihood.

If we share the GPS locations freely then we are risking his livelihood, moreover we increase the probability that if locals can't see the value in protecting the habitats and developing ecotourism then the habitats continue to be eroded. They are barely clinging on in places as it is.

Fully endorse Pash leaving GPS refs off the report.
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Old Thursday 27th June 2019, 13:41   #22
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I get it that guides make a livelihood from the info they share with clients, and clients spreading info could potentially erode the guide's unique selling point.
I also fully get it when GPS is not shared because of the risk of trapping, hunting, ... especially in a country like Viet Nam.

However, I just don't understand the reasoning:
" I have not included GPS locations as I believe only those birding independently should share such information. "

It seems from this sentence, it's OK (and the word 'should' even implicates some kind of obligation) for independent birders to post detailed info, while guided birders have a good excuse not to share info. I don't agree because of the following reasons:

1. the report refers to helpful independent reports. So the author benefits from the exact info he feels he shouldn't share. This feels like he's ok by taking info, not by giving. You pay for a guide, but you get free info from independent birders... Shouldn't you pay them for their reports (a rethoric question)?

2. Many places on the birding circuit where staked out by independent birders, universities, expeditions, early explorers, and ofcourse also local guides or professional international birding guides. Commercial birding benefits and profits from people freely sharing info (think about recent sightings on ebird, guides using bird sounds from XC, not allowed actually, but that's another discussion). This should ofcourse not be a competition who shares the most: as a matter of fact, sharing info works (best) in both ways (e.g. many guides put all their sightings on ebird, if you want to talk about guides who are not afraid of sharing and losing their livelihood!). And while there is no obligation at all to share info, it is always appreciated.

3. Ignoring the issue of trapping / hunting / vulnerable species, a big problem in e.g. Viet Nam, Indonesia,... (a reason I also suppress certain sightings in my reports), the sharing of detailed information is almost never the deciding factor between opting for a guided tour or an independent tour. People chose for guided tours for various reasons, but the lack of more specific gen about where to find certain target birds is no factor for 99% of birders (factors are comfort, lack of time / interest preparing the trip in terms of logistics and birds, safety, having someone who speaks the language and understands the culture,...). The only outcome is that independent birders, who you relied upon in your pre-trip preparation, will be a bit more frustrated and lose more time in those areas where information is scarce / not updated...The same way as you could state that guides' unique selling points erodes if you share info, independent info will erode if people stop contributing and sharing.

If there are no places like e.g. cloudbirders, xeno-canto, ebird, observation, inaturalist, birdforum, and especially if there are no people feeding info to those sites because they feel entitled not to share info (for various reasons, some very valid, others debatable)... there is simply no independent (international) birding community.
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Old Friday 28th June 2019, 09:17   #23
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Originally Posted by mjh73 View Post
While the issues around certain countries and the exposure to trapping is one reason for not sharing GPS locations, the point about guiding is more that we had employed a local guide who took us to locations that he has developed where our chances of seeing target birds were significantly improved.

That is his livelihood.

If we share the GPS locations freely then we are risking his livelihood, moreover we increase the probability that if locals can't see the value in protecting the habitats and developing ecotourism then the habitats continue to be eroded. They are barely clinging on in places as it is.

Fully endorse Pash leaving GPS refs off the report.
I don't really agree here, there are people who will never take a guide and those who always will so I don't think his livelihood would be impacted to any great degree, if at all.

There are also people who will always share info and those who won't.
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Old Saturday 29th June 2019, 01:05   #24
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I would side with Pash. I took Peter Waander's 9 grasswren tour a few years ago, not because I couldn't drive around the outback or find the same hotels, but because I KNEW I would not find a number of those birds. I wouldn't think of disclosing those GPS locations. And I find the words "feel entitled not to share" regrettable when someone has put in a lot of effort to write a very good trip report. (And Temmie, yours are superb.)
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Old Saturday 29th June 2019, 08:38   #25
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Hi Bob (and Paul),

I hope I am not misunderstood (English is not my first language):
I applaud every effort to write a report; at the same time, nobody is obliged to write one and everybody is free to put in there whatever they deem necessary and for whatever purpose / motivation.

If you didn't write a report, I had nothing to comment in this thread :-)

I just think the specific reasoning behind not putting GPS in the report is worth some discussion, not to convince someone to do as I would like, but to give another point of view on the subject. Writing a report can be hard work and there are always parts of the report that can be a bit more sensitive / harder to get to the point / debatable whether to include or not... think about rating a guide (when he didn't do his job very well / commenting on birds you didn't see while you don't know if you lack experience or you were unlucky / include or not include specific site info that can be sensitive)...

I like discussions about birding, traveling, reports,... and my previous reaction could be either some food for thought, something you don't agree with or something you choose to ignore / forget. So please don't take this too personal.
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