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Swarovski EL 8.5x42 review, and updated SLC 8x42 W B review (1 Viewer)

Tobias Mennle said:
Yes I really have this idea too, that Swarovski might have optimized the Swarovisions with respect to RB but not being open about it. Maybe it is mainly in the field flattening lens so pretty easy to implement... Maybe I should ask directly. They´d be doing all future buyers a big favor in being open about it.
Click to expand...

According to what a Swaro rep told Holger, Swaro designed its first two SV EL models, the 8.5x and 10x42, with very low distortion, but added some degree of pincushion to subsequent models. The distortion levels Holger shows for each SV EL model in his chart and how much "globe effect" is possible from those models perfectly matches the degree of sako's experience of RB in the three SV ELs he tried:

Distortion of the new Zeiss Victory SF: A paradigmatic shift on the binocular market?

I would guess pincushion was added to overcome complaints about RB in the 8.5x and 10x42 models, though I don't recall if the rep came out and said that to Holger. The Nikon SE series and the Zeiss SF series prove that you can design binoculars with flat fields and enough pincushion to prevent RB in most users who are susceptible.
 
Last edited:
brocknroller said:
According to what a Swaro rep told Holger, Swaro designed its first two SV EL models, the 8.5x and 10x42, with very low distortion, but added some degree of pincushion to subsequent models. The distortion levels Holger shows for each SV EL model in his chart and how much "globe effect" is possible from those models perfectly matches the degree of sako's experience of RB in the three SV ELs he tried:

Distortion of the new Zeiss Victory SF: A paradigmatic shift on the binocular market?

I would guess pincushion was added to overcome complaints about RB in the 8.5x and 10x42 models, though I don't recall if the rep came out and said that to Holger. The Nikon SE series and the Zeiss SF series prove that you can design binoculars with flat fields and enough pincushion to prevent RB in most users who are susceptible.
Click to expand...

Brock, as far as I understand Holger´s distortion parameter k means a constant distortion and surely is fine and valuable for theoretical analysis as well as for test series with people and their reactions to distortion. But what I see in the Swarovisions 8x32 and 8.5x42 is not a constant distortion. And I bet I will not see constant distortion in the Zeiss SF either. In the Swarovisions I know it´s slight pincushion for most of the field and then seems to change to less pincushion/different distortion in the "Absam zone" (did you coin the term "Absam ring" by the way ;) ). I also think what we see is not a classic RB/RG by too little general/constant pincushion, but the strange distortion effects when structures move from the outer field over the Absam zone to the image center (or vice versa). The 8x32 really had this "ring" with a sudden change in MTF and distortion which to me was very weird. The 8.5x42 doesn´t have an Absam ring, but a zone with slightly reduced MTF. Very clever flat field implementation IMO. The 8x32 may have been changed since, as discussed above. Agreed, the SE 8x32 which I used 1.5 years was perfect in this respect, but with a somewhat narrow field of view, and with all respect, shame on Nikon for not bringing the SE up to their competitors´ standards...
 
Hi Tobias!

I have got a brand new 8x32 EL SV, and I can't see any RB/"Absam ring" in it. This is weird, as I swear I could see it in other examples that I have tried on earlier occasions.

I think you should definitely call Swarovski and ask if the optical design has been changed/tweaked. It would be good to clear this up (otherwise I might have to check my eyesight!). :t:
 
HighNorth said:
Hi Tobias!

I have got a brand new 8x32 EL SV, and I can't see any RB/"Absam ring" in it. This is weird, as I swear I could see it in other examples that I have tried on earlier occasions.

I think you should definitely call Swarovski and ask if the optical design has been changed/tweaked. It would be good to clear this up (otherwise I might have to check my eyesight!). :t:
Click to expand...

Honestly, I doubt it has anything to do with eyesight or optical design. It has to do with popular delusion. No offense intended, but driven by a popular demagogue, people can believe all kinds of things that have nothing to do with reality. Even on little ole' birdforum.

Just sayin,'

Mark
 
Kammerdiner said:
Honestly, I doubt it has anything to do with eyesight or optical design. It has to do with popular delusion. No offense intended, but driven by a popular demagogue, people can believe all kinds of things that have nothing to do with reality. Even on little ole' birdforum.

Just sayin,'

Mark
Click to expand...

Are you saying RB/Absam ring has nothing to do with reality? ;) Reality is only in the eye of the beholder, or rather how our brain interprets what the eye sees. I agree that it might be psychological though: if you expect to see something, you most likely will end up seeing it! :smoke:
 
HighNorth said:
Are you saying RB/Absam ring has nothing to do with reality? ;) Reality is only in the eye of the beholder, or rather how our brain interprets what the eye sees. I agree that it might be psychological though: if you expect to see something, you most likely will end up seeing it! :smoke:
Click to expand...
It's easy to understand...some folks are more capable of visual adaptation than others.|8)|
 
Kammerdiner said:
Yes, I've been deluding myself with my SV's for a combined 6+ years. Sad story really.

Seriously, where would this issue be without Birdforum's own rollingballbirther?

Nowhere.
Click to expand...

People generally love to cherish their own prejudices. I was very prejudiced against the 8.5x42 SV after having used the 8x32 SV for more than a year. I put the 8.5x42 on a tripod and found a very different image. That´s why I now really want to know if Swarovski changed anything in the 8x32 recently and why I appreciate High North´s observation.

I´d expect anyone with decent eyesight, a tripod and an older 8x32 SV to pretty quickly see what the Absam ring is about. It´s not a paranormal phenomenon. That doesn´t make the SV 8x32 a bad glass.
 
Tobias Mennle said:
People generally love to cherish their own prejudices. I was very prejudiced against the 8.5x42 SV after having used the 8x32 SV for more than a year. I put the 8.5x42 on a tripod and found a very different image. That´s why I now really want to know if Swarovski changed anything in the 8x32 recently and why I appreciate High North´s observation.

I´d expect anyone with decent eyesight, a tripod and an older 8x32 SV to pretty quickly see what the Absam ring is about. It´s not a paranormal phenomenon. That doesn´t make the SV 8x32 a bad glass.
Click to expand...
Oh, that ring again...

From 2013
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2817056&postcount=175

Engineering
Did you read the complaints on BF about the focus mechanism? I guess we’re screwed.

Sales
Call the warehouse and get more product out to North America! They’re consuming them faster than we can make them!

Corporate Blog
Should we comment on the focus? I really think we need to get out in front of this before we lose market share.

Engineering
Ok, let’s do a complete redesign. Maybe the rock and rollers on BF will offer their expertise. Otherwise, this could be an epic fail!

Corporate Blog
Release the following immediately.
Focus is on focus redesign. The new focus team will coordinate all efforts with the foci development group to avoid confusion. The foci team will focus on optics (glass, light, refraction, etc.); the focus group will engineer a working focus mechanism (metal, bearings, etc.).

Sales
Where are those damn binoculars? I’ve got people all over the world screaming for more product. Get them off the line and out to the customer.

Marketing
In response to worldwide demand and a shortage of production capability, we’re increasing prices. When we say elite we mean it.

Engineering
Damn, another focus complaint appeared on BF. Do you think our jobs are on the line?

Sales
Orders are streaming in. The focus should not be on the focus but on production. Let’s get focused, people.

Corporate Blog
Owners are replying that the focus works just fine, even in brutally cold weather. Maybe this is all much ado about nothing. For immediate release: “We take all our customers concerns seriously. Our focus is to focus on your focus and that’s what we’ve done, from the beginning. We’ve addressed the problem by acknowledging there never was a problem. Please visit our new website.”

Engineering
Whew, that was close. Hey, did you read the latest BF post. It’s something about an Absam Ring.

President
Absam ring? Posted in an optics forum? Direct that to the jewelry division!

Engineering
What the hell is an Absam ring?

Sales
Who cares, I need more binoculars and I need them now.
 
Pileatus said:
Oh, that ring again...

From 2013
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2817056&postcount=175

Engineering
Did you read the complaints on BF about the focus mechanism? I guess we’re screwed.

Sales
Call the warehouse and get more product out to North America! They’re consuming them faster than we can make them!

Corporate Blog
Should we comment on the focus? I really think we need to get out in front of this before we lose market share.

Engineering
Ok, let’s do a complete redesign. Maybe the rock and rollers on BF will offer their expertise. Otherwise, this could be an epic fail!

Corporate Blog
Release the following immediately.
Focus is on focus redesign. The new focus team will coordinate all efforts with the foci development group to avoid confusion. The foci team will focus on optics (glass, light, refraction, etc.); the focus group will engineer a working focus mechanism (metal, bearings, etc.).

Sales
Where are those damn binoculars? I’ve got people all over the world screaming for more product. Get them off the line and out to the customer.

Marketing
In response to worldwide demand and a shortage of production capability, we’re increasing prices. When we say elite we mean it.

Engineering
Damn, another focus complaint appeared on BF. Do you think our jobs are on the line?

Sales
Orders are streaming in. The focus should not be on the focus but on production. Let’s get focused, people.

Corporate Blog
Owners are replying that the focus works just fine, even in brutally cold weather. Maybe this is all much ado about nothing. For immediate release: “We take all our customers concerns seriously. Our focus is to focus on your focus and that’s what we’ve done, from the beginning. We’ve addressed the problem by acknowledging there never was a problem. Please visit our new website.”

Engineering
Whew, that was close. Hey, did you read the latest BF post. It’s something about an Absam Ring.

President
Absam ring? Posted in an optics forum? Direct that to the jewelry division!

Engineering
What the hell is an Absam ring?

Sales
Who cares, I need more binoculars and I need them now.
Click to expand...

Is the point of your post to cast spite at individual consumers who don't like the sometimes inconsistent focus smoothness, or rolling ball, or the "Absam ring" by telling them that they shouldn't complain about these things because Swarovski doesn't care since the majority of buyers aren't bothered or are willing to put up with less than perfection? I don't get it. Bully for you if you are satisfied with the SV. But, for example, as someone who knows several enthusiastic birders with IPD under 56 mm, I will continue to complain that the SV, like most bins, does not work for them. We will complain even though such potential customers only represent a few percent (at most) of the potential market. Someone at Zeiss decided to take this minority concern seriously, so we have some hope that Swarovski and other manufacturers will too. I would expect most other potential consumers to do the same when it comes to advocating for what they want or need. They won't back down because for them these are problems. It doesn't matter to them that others do not have the same troubles. Go use your SV in peace and leave others to their suffering, no need to add insult to injury. :)

--AP
 
Alexis Powell said:
Is the point of your post to cast spite at individual consumers who don't like the sometimes inconsistent focus smoothness, or rolling ball, or the "Absam ring" by telling them that they shouldn't complain about these things because Swarovski doesn't care since the majority of buyers aren't bothered or are willing to put up with less than perfection? I don't get it. Bully for you if you are satisfied with the SV. But, for example, as someone who knows several enthusiastic birders with IPD under 56 mm, I will continue to complain that the SV, like most bins, does not work for them. We will complain even though such potential customers only represent a few percent (at most) of the potential market. Someone at Zeiss decided to take this minority concern seriously, so we have some hope that Swarovski and other manufacturers will too. I would expect most other potential consumers to do the same when it comes to advocating for what they want or need. They won't back down because for them these are problems. It doesn't matter to them that others do not have the same troubles. Go use your SV in peace and leave others to their suffering, no need to add insult to injury. :)

--AP
Click to expand...
No. :cat:
 
Pileatus said:
Oh, that ring again...

From 2013
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2817056&postcount=175

Engineering
Did you read the complaints on BF about the focus mechanism? I guess we’re screwed.

Sales
Call the warehouse and get more product out to North America! They’re consuming them faster than we can make them!

Corporate Blog
Should we comment on the focus? I really think we need to get out in front of this before we lose market share.

Engineering
Ok, let’s do a complete redesign. Maybe the rock and rollers on BF will offer their expertise. Otherwise, this could be an epic fail!

Corporate Blog
Release the following immediately.
Focus is on focus redesign. The new focus team will coordinate all efforts with the foci development group to avoid confusion. The foci team will focus on optics (glass, light, refraction, etc.); the focus group will engineer a working focus mechanism (metal, bearings, etc.).

Sales
Where are those damn binoculars? I’ve got people all over the world screaming for more product. Get them off the line and out to the customer.

Marketing
In response to worldwide demand and a shortage of production capability, we’re increasing prices. When we say elite we mean it.

Engineering
Damn, another focus complaint appeared on BF. Do you think our jobs are on the line?

Sales
Orders are streaming in. The focus should not be on the focus but on production. Let’s get focused, people.

Corporate Blog
Owners are replying that the focus works just fine, even in brutally cold weather. Maybe this is all much ado about nothing. For immediate release: “We take all our customers concerns seriously. Our focus is to focus on your focus and that’s what we’ve done, from the beginning. We’ve addressed the problem by acknowledging there never was a problem. Please visit our new website.”

Engineering
Whew, that was close. Hey, did you read the latest BF post. It’s something about an Absam Ring.

President
Absam ring? Posted in an optics forum? Direct that to the jewelry division!

Engineering
What the hell is an Absam ring?

Sales
Who cares, I need more binoculars and I need them now.
Click to expand...

One of the best posts ever on BF.
A classic thats hangs printed above the Swaro cabinet!

Thanks Pileatus :t:

Jan
 
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