Porro or Roof ? Your choice. (1 Viewer)

All things being equal, optics, build, weather protection, what would your preference be?
And a brief description why?

Simon,

A porro, of course! No surprise there, being a known porromaniac.

I'm a fair weather birder, for the most part, I do like to get out in the winter, and my porro focusers do stiffen up, and I do have to transition them from warm to cold and back again to avoid internal fogging, but most of the birding I do is in warmer weather - snowing right now, 26* F, and wind gusts up to 40 mph. Polar bear birding anyone?

A WP/FP bin of either prism type with a smooth turning focuser would be helpful for the winter, but is optional. If I really want WP/FP, I can always buy an affordable roof such as a Hawke or ZR ED to fill in during the winter months since they would be seldom used.

Why porro? The SEs and EIIs are still the "best bang for the buck" and the 3-D and depth perception beat anything I've seen in comparable quality roofs. The view is more natural than the compressed image I see in most roofs, and I also tend to see more CA in roofs. I have to go down to 7x or 6x to get as relaxed and natural image in a roof.

Having large hands, I prefer the ergonomics of a porro. Can't beat those "dog legs" for their "real estate".

I'm happy to finally see a high quality porro in the new Geovid rangefinder, but disappointed that Leica licensed the Perger porro patent and not Nikon or Bushnell, so they could "spread the wealth" and bring this new design and internal focus porro down to earth for those of us who really can't afford to pay $2,995 (and are not just saying we can't afford them like some cheapskates .

Alas, most of the bins offered today, particularly in terms of quality optics, are of the roof design. So I might end up like you, collecting old porros, as I once did. Audubon, Octarem, Nikon WFs, Zephyrs, etc. because I'm just not a roofie. The only roof I ever wanted to take home with me was an 8x32 EL, and I spent all of 10 minutes with it (while its owner watched nervously), not long enough to evaluate some of the criticisms I've read in various reviews. But even from the quick look, it was the closest view to a comparable sized porro that I've tried, and the ergonomics fit me as well as my porros.

I don't rule out a roof in the future, but I'd take a high quality porro with updated coatings any day over the "latest and greatest" roof.

If only there were a company that wolud be willing to adjust the surface of those old porros to accommodate updated coatings, and didn't charge a fortune for that service, the world would be my oyster.

<B>

There is two ways to look at this.

One way is for classic binoculars, where the personal choice is porro. The variety is astounding, the optics even by today's standards are eminently usable. For another, I can do most of the repairs they need myself. I'll take apart an older Tasco, but I believe I'd leave the work on something like the SE to Nikon.

For the way I use binoculars and with today's product assortment, I would go roof. They are more compact, more easily weather sealed, I am more concerned with dust than water, and more robust. I've managed to vibrate porro's out of collimation. The images of modern roofs are close enough to the porros, that there is really no need for the porro. That is likely because, for my tastes, I don't get enough of a performance wow over the extra bit of 3-D from the porro. I realize others literally see things differently. This is an interesting question and I'm curious to see how the responses shake out.

However, I wonder if you mean Nikon branded only stuff? That might change the tune as the SE may well be tough enough and lots cheaper than the EDG.

Like Brock I too find the view through a good porro more.... "realistic" is the word I feel best suits what I see.

Having recently returned to a porro (HR WP) I`m wondering why I went roof over the last 5 years at all.

I will need a wfov for warbler watching at some point so an EII is on the cards.

I have also returned to a porro after some years with roofs. I started with the Nikon SE, but bought a Kowa Prominar 8,5x44 XD as a supplement during the winter months. After about 10 months I sold it and bought a Swarovski 8x42 SLC HD instead. Sold the Swarro after 9 months or so and got me another roof - Nikon EDG 8x42. I have had the EDG for 15 months now I think. It´s a very nice binocular..better than the SE in many ways. But a porro is a porro..or should I say that a Nikon SE is a Nikon SE?!

The SE view feels natural and very distinct. It also fits perfectly in my hands and I like the 3D view a lot. I also feel that the depth of field is greater in the SE than, for example, the Nikon EDG or the Swarovski SLC HD. This makes it very comfortable to use in the field, I think. I love that the binocular is so short! Both Porro and roof have their place in the birdwatching world - but if I had to choose I choose a porro!

I like porro's however my experience with roof's is very limited.

Simon S said:

All things being equal, optics, build, weather protection, what would your preference be?

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Problem is ALL things are never equal.

Roofs are inherently more robust and waterproof and compact.

I have both, like them both. I never travel with porros.

If ALL things actually were equal, then I suppose it would merely come down to shape, as in which an individual preferred holding.

added: Simon, why did you post this in the Nikon sub-forum? Was your intent to limit the discussion to Nikon porros and roofs?

I like porro too and after 4 years of using Nikon 8x32 HG L, I bought the Nikon 8x32 SE. The view is ...

Then every time I used the HG L, I don't get the wow feeling anymore. The SE took over the HG L as my main binocular for birdwatching tours etc.

Now I'm waiting for the new EL 8x32 Swarovision to compare with my 8x32 SE :king:

horukuru said:

I like porro too and after 4 years of using Nikon 8x32 HG L, I bought the Nikon 8x32 SE. The view is ...

Then every time I used the HG L, I don't get the wow feeling anymore. The SE took over the HG L as my main binocular for birdwatching tours etc.

Now I'm waiting for the new EL 8x32 Swarovision to compare with my 8x32 SE :king:

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Jason:

Good to hear from you. The SE is very good. Right now it is -15 F. as I
post, very cold. I suppose things are better in the tropics!

Jerry

Kevin Conville said:

Problem is ALL things are never equal.

Roofs are inherently more robust and waterproof and compact.

I have both, like them both. I never travel with porros.

If ALL things actually were equal, then I suppose it would merely come down to shape, as in which an individual preferred holding.

added: Simon, why did you post this in the Nikon sub-forum? Was your intent to limit the discussion to Nikon porros and roofs?

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Hello Kevin,

Quite. I was about to write the same thing: all things are not equal.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

No doubt porro's are better optically. The 3D view, depth of field, contrast, sharpness, brightness and realistic view beats a roof every time. But they are a little more finicky and many of the best ones are not waterproof or fog proof or dust proof. The Habicht is one of the few porro's that is sealed. The best world is to have some of each design. I have the SE 8x32, EII 8x30 and the Habicht 8x30 for my porro's and my roofs are the EL 8x32 and Swaro compact 8x20..

[email protected] said:

No doubt porro's are better optically. The 3D view, depth of field, contrast, sharpness, brightness and realistic view beats a roof every time. But they are a little more finicky and many of the best ones are not waterproof or fog proof or dust proof. The Habicht is one of the few porro's that is sealed. The best world is to have some of each design. I have the SE 8x32, EII 8x30 and the Habicht 8x30 for my porro's and my roofs are the EL 8x32 and Swaro compact 8x20..

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Dennis,

Yes. I agree with you. In fact I recall you saying the same thing here numerous times recently.

Are you trying to convince yourself? You don't need to you know. Have no doubt! This time you are right!:t:

Bob

Dennis,

Did you sell your Nikon EDG 8x42 to get the EL 8x32 Swarovision ? If yes, what was the reasons ?

Thanks !

horukuru said:

Dennis,

Did you sell your Nikon EDG 8x42 to get the EL 8x32 Swarovision ? If yes, what was the reasons ?

Thanks !

Click to expand...

I sold the Nikon EDG 8x32 because I wanted something lighter and smaller and bought the Swaro 8x30 CL which I liked and had for a while. Then I got tired of the smallish FOV on the CL so I sold it and I bought a Swaro 8x32 EL which I have now. I like the EL a little better than the EDG because it has a bigger FOV and it is smaller and lighter and it fits my hands better. I tried a Swarovision 8x32 and the RB bothers me. I also had a Swarovision 8.5x42 for a while but I just didn't like the RB so I sold it. My EL is my easy to use weatherproof travel binocular but the optics are behind my porro's especially the Habicht.

"Like Brock I too find the view through a good porro more.... "realistic" is the word I feel best suits what I see."

Exactly. That is what I like about porro's. A porro feels more like there is NO optics between you and the object you are looking at.The SE and Habicht are awesome in that respect.

Simon S said:

All things being equal, optics, build, weather protection, what would your preference be?
And a brief description why?

Click to expand...

Hmmm .... as Kevin, and Arthur have said, those "things" are pretty "hard" to equalise .....

But if we take it as such, then even if the optics are "equal" - I still think there's that certain porro "clarity" that's hard to match in any roof. There's also that porro 3-D view (stereopsis, or perceived dof - call it what you will) that cannot be matched at a given "effective" ('cause there's a small trade-off there too) magnification by a roof.

Somewhere in Brock's "brief" post (just as well you specified that Simon!) he mentioned the greater "real estate" of porros for large hands, and while this is true - I find the "wings out" posture, not quite as stable as the more vertically underneath supported open-bridge style roof grip. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that the best grip (most stable) for large hands is one that fully encompasses the barrel in each hand, and then braces left over fingers and thumbs on (or even around) the opposite barrel! Just needs a long (to fit all the criss-crossed fingers), either, open-bridge roof, or, high "H" style roof ....... closed bridge roofs - definitely need not apply.

That said, my preference would be for a "middle way" .... no need for high $ Perger prisms, just PorroII, ideally in a 9x50 ......

Until then, perhaps just washing the Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED porro prisms in a good anti-dandruff shampoo before assembly would suffice ??! ||


Chosun :gh:

Hello all,

I think that I might expand on my comment, above. If I could find a roof with as bright and as wide a field as some Porros, I would be as happy as if I found a Porro with true waterproofing, close focussing and ease of focussing in cold weather. Give me a Porro like my 8x32 FL, or give me a roof like an 8x30 SE.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

Pinewood said:

Hello all,

I think that I might expand on my comment, above. If I could find a roof with as bright and as wide a field as some Porros, I would be as happy as if I found a Porro with true waterproofing, close focussing and ease of focussing in cold weather. Give me a Porro like my 8x32 FL, or give me a roof like an 8x30 SE.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

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This sums up what i think too.
Nothing can beat a good porro for landscapes, especially some 7x with huge FOVs. A roofs is more suitable for birding thanks to smoother focusers and size of their bodys.

Giorgio said:

This sums up what i think too.
Nothing can beat a good porro for landscapes, especially some 7x with huge FOVs. A roofs is more suitable for birding thanks to smoother focusers and size of their bodys.

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When I first read about the Perger porros, I thought that might be the solution to this dilemma, but it remains to be seen how much 3-D effect the "banana design" gives, certainly not as much as the Porro I design, but perhaps noticeably better than a roof, and it does allow the bin to be completely sealed for internal focusing.

Someone suggested that the Perger design could not handle wide fields of view, but I think someone else challenged that. So there are still questions to be answered about this new design and whether or not it represents a good compromise btwn porros and roofs. Maybe Arthur can have his cake and eat it too.

<B>

Probably porro for their simplicity in design and their "ease of view".

But, as others have stated, all is not equal so, therefore, more often than not a roof.