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Swarovski diopter, short range verses long..

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Old Saturday 24th June 2006, 18:19   #1
foxbo
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Swarovski diopter, short range verses long..

I just received a pair of the Swarovski EL 10x42s this week. I'm sending them back first thing on Monday. I can adjust the dioptric scale so each barrel is in perfect focus at 120 feet, but when I tested focus at 60 feet, I have to adjust the diopter two clicks positive in order to retain perfect focus as the left side will be slightly out of focus. Then, if I want to view something at a further distance, I need to adjust the diopter back to neutral, or zero. I called Swarovski and they told me that the condition I'm experiencing is not normal. So, I'm exchanging the binos.

I noticed the first time I viewed thru the binos, that my eyes seemed to be fighting each other, just a bit, and I couldn't seem to fine the "sweet spot". I knew something was wrong. When I setup a small sign with different size print at different distances, I found out the root of the problem.

My question is, has anyone else experienced this condition? I do not have the same problem with my slc 8x30s. The diopter on those is set at one click positive and focus remains the same no matter the distance.

I've asked Swarovski to check the next pair of ELs prior to shipping. I'm hoping that my problem will be solved. Any comments would be appreicated.
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Old Sunday 25th June 2006, 10:51   #2
kmiernik
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Sounds like problems with collimation. I have old Eschenbach 8x32 and I've played a little with them. After taking out lenses and putting them back I had same problems as you've decribed. I could not get proper image and I had to adjust diopter each time I've changed range. Longer looking through binoculars would make me feel I'm cross-eyed. I've tried to collimate them by myself but I failed so they went to the optician.

I guess such problems just may happen with new binoculars as they might be not set correctly at the factory. Perpheps even such top manufacturer as Swavroski sometimes makes mistakes. Probably they could even adjust binoculars you've send them. Anyway it should not happen again.
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Old Sunday 25th June 2006, 14:29   #3
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Oh, of course they'll make it right, but it's just the hassle of having to ship them back and waiting on a new pair to be shipped to me. It isn't cheap to send them back either. I shipped an slc 8x30 to include a thousand bucks worth of insurance a few weeks ago and the cost was over $17.00 via USPS. I'll have to insure these for at least $1,800, plus they're about seven ounces heavier. I just hope they get here in time for my vacation.
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Old Saturday 1st July 2006, 15:27   #4
ksbird/foxranch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxbo
Oh, of course they'll make it right, but it's just the hassle of having to ship them back and waiting on a new pair to be shipped to me. It isn't cheap to send them back either. I shipped an slc 8x30 to include a thousand bucks worth of insurance a few weeks ago and the cost was over $17.00 via USPS. I'll have to insure these for at least $1,800, plus they're about seven ounces heavier. I just hope they get here in time for my vacation.
I was actually going to post a new thread about this problem in general but this works too. I was recently telling people the Discovery Ultimate Precision binocular was extra-ordinarily sharp in the center for a roofer and 2 friends bought them. One pair had the annoying problem that they needed to have a diopter adjustment changes for each distance change (for me). My buddy using eyeglasses with the diopter set to zero had no problems. The other pair seemed to work properly all the time. So I began to ask friends about this problem in general.

This annoying problem happens much more often than I realized because I use porros and it is a rare condition for them. But at least 10% of all the roof prism users who don't wear eyeglasses with their binocs seem to experience this problem. Since my right/left eye nearsighted/farsighted condition is pretty extreme, I seem to have more of a problem with it than most people. Quite a few binoculars will not even adjust sufficiently to correct the difference between my eyes.

Obviously this situation comes about when either the eyepiece design is not ratio corrcetive but rather distance corrective. Then if the distance to the objective changes then the relative position of the diopter has to change too. In roof prisms the problem may also be caused by the location of an internal diopter adjusting lens. I find that inside most waterproof roofers everything is lined up to move on long threaded screws and a slight bit of extra turn in these positional screws and the view can easily seem "not right". I wonder how many people experience this same problem and just put up with it.

There is a similar problem in some porros whereby the diopter adjustment can be easily moved and so it is constantly needing adjustment whenevr the focus changes. I have a German pair of Hensel 7x35s with this condition and every distance focus change requires a reset of the diopter. But the view is nice and the depth of field is substantial so it isn't a great problem. But I actually have two pairs of roofers with both problems and so they almost never gets used. One pair is an ultra-waterproof 10x42 Tasco Sub with individual eyepiece focus on the center wheel, and the other pair are Lisenfeld German 7x50s non-waterproof bins with a focuser similar to porros being on the top with with a center focus wheel. These constant adjustments really reduce usablity so these bins are best used for viewing a single subject at a specific feeder or during nest building time when a whole field at a substantial distance is full of nests on top of curly dock or reed stalks.

Last edited by ksbird/foxranch : Saturday 1st July 2006 at 15:33.
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Old Saturday 1st July 2006, 19:59   #5
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Well, it cost me over $26.00 to ship and insure the ELs via the USPS. If I receive another pair with the same problem, and the factory rep assured me I would not, I'm not going to be a happy customer. If I have to return another pair for the same problem, they're going to receive them with collect shipping charges, or there's going to be some hell raisin'. Right now, I'm out over $1,800.00 and with nothing to show for it. I asked the rep to throw in a free bino harness for my troubles and extra shipping charges, but it was one of those cases where he had to ask his boss. We'll see what happens.
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Old Sunday 2nd July 2006, 07:35   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksbird/foxranch
....This annoying problem happens much more often than I realized because I use porros and it is a rare condition for them...
I've also experienced this with a pair of Pentax 8x43 DCF SP's and I gave them up in the end. I too have never seen it with porros. Maybe the 3-D effect you get with porros compensates for any small differences between left and right view, or maybe the very flat and shallow depth of focus on many roofs makes this problem more obvious. Whatever the cause it's like an itch you can't scratch!
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Old Sunday 2nd July 2006, 13:26   #7
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I've never experienced the diopter adjustment problems mentioned above with either of the two roof prism binoculars I own, Zeiss 8x42 FL and Swarovski 8.5x42 EL. Both work by changing the right focus relative to the left by moving the right focusing element
. Once set I've never noticed any significant change with distance. Perhaps if there were more slop in the mechanism those kinds of changes would happen.

I don't think porros or roofs that focus by moving the eyepieces should be let off the hook when it comes to this problem. Less than perfectly rigid eyepiece bridges are notorious for causing shifting focus between the left and right. The bridge tends to rock as the focus is moved so that no consistent diopter adjustment is possible.

I experience a problem with inconsistent diopter adjustment related to distance with traditional porros because of the widely spaced objectives. An object cannot be exactly centered in both fields simultaneously with any binocular at close focus, but the separation is much more pronounced in traditional porros with widely spaced objectives. I find that I tend to unconsiously position the object closer to the center of the left field which is my dominant eye. That causes the same object in the right field to appear farther off axis than the left and so it is subject to defocusing from field curvature. There is much less of this in roof or reverse porros with closely spaced objectives.
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Old Friday 21st July 2006, 12:38   #8
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I received the new exchange pair of ELs and the problem is solved. The diopter is set to zero for all distances with this pair and I'm satisfied. Swarovski also shipped a free bino harness for my troubles and extra shipping charges. Their customer service seems to rate as high as everyone proclaims.
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Old Friday 21st July 2006, 16:44   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry link
I've never experienced the diopter adjustment problems mentioned above with either of the two roof prism binoculars I own, Zeiss 8x42 FL and Swarovski 8.5x42 EL. Both work by changing the right focus relative to the left by moving the right focusing element
. Once set I've never noticed any significant change with distance. Perhaps if there were more slop in the mechanism those kinds of changes would happen.

I don't think porros or roofs that focus by moving the eyepieces should be let off the hook when it comes to this problem. Less than perfectly rigid eyepiece bridges are notorious for causing shifting focus between the left and right. The bridge tends to rock as the focus is moved so that no consistent diopter adjustment is possible.

I experience a problem with inconsistent diopter adjustment related to distance with traditional porros because of the widely spaced objectives. An object cannot be exactly centered in both fields simultaneously with any binocular at close focus, but the separation is much more pronounced in traditional porros with widely spaced objectives. I find that I tend to unconsiously position the object closer to the center of the left field which is my dominant eye. That causes the same object in the right field to appear farther off axis than the left and so it is subject to defocusing from field curvature. There is much less of this in roof or reverse porros with closely spaced objectives.
Henry,

Contrary to your experience, I find my SE porro to be wonderfully easy at minimum distance because it's so sharp across the FOV. It's the single best argument I can find for wide, sharp sweet spots and it's the one thing I immediately notice when examining a binocular. My Ultravid, with a less-than-perfect sweet spot is far less satisfying at close range than my SE.

My IPD is 57mm, which may account for my preferences.

John
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Old Saturday 22nd July 2006, 15:34   #10
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Henry's post and John's response has me wondering whether it makes a difference which eye is dominant. Most people are right eye dominant which probably explains why the diopter setting is on the right eye side of the binocular, although there may be other reason's for this. In my case I'm 20/15 in my left eye and 20/25 in my dominant right eye and I need 1.25 power reading glasses to read comfortably. I set my binoculars by first focusing my left eye on an object about 100 feet distant and then I focus my right eye by using the diopter. (a little bit less than minus 1 on all of my binoculars). After that, I don't have to change the diopter again. I wonder if that would be the case if my left eye was dominant? Especially if I wanted to look at something close. My IPD is a little bit more than 68.

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