Would tripod upgrade significantly reduce wind vibration & improve ease of sighting? (1 Viewer)

JimG · Apr 24, 2004

Would tripod upgrade significantly reduce wind vibration & improve ease of sighting?

I live in Fairbanks, Alaska and this is my first post. I recently bought a Zeiss 85 T FL 20-60 green/angled scope. I'm very happy with the scope. I'm not happy with the excessive vibration I experience at 45-60 power with just a mild breeze (4-6 mph). With my current tripod I also have to repeatedly play with the adjustments/controls when I would rather remain focused on bird viewing. I would like to know if upgrading my existing tripod would make a significant difference in either or both of these areas.

My current tripod is a 4.5 lb, aluminum, Rollei 'Special' with 3 piece legs. It came w/an attached head, has a total closed length of 25.5" w/head, max height in 'set' position of 54.5" w/head, and w/center column extends to a max height of 68.5". Legs use vertical quick release/lock tabs and have adjustable rubber feet w/exposable alloy spikes. It is over 25 years old and has served well over that time.

Based on recommendations from numerous threads on this forum I am leaning toward getting the Bogen (Manfrotto) 3221WN (055) w/3130 (128RC) QR -possibly in the form of the 3178WNK Wilderness Kit (which throws in a tripod case). The 3130 has the advantage of being the only one of the three accepting the 200CZ1 Zeiss plate (Bogen's tech support claims that eventually the screw will work its way loose w/o this plate and the scope will fall off). The 3221 weighs 6.2 lbs and the 3130 weighs 2.3 lbs (w/8.9 lb capacity). The Zeiss scope is about 4 lbs, which would make this a hefty 12.5 lb combination.

I am also considering the 700RC2 (1.1 lb w/5.5 lb capacity) in conjunction with the 3021BN tripod which is the same as the 3221WN except that it is not padded and lacks the spiked feet - and which only weighs 5.1 lbs. This would keep total tripod weight down to 6.2 lbs - and w/Zeiss 10.2lbs.

On the other hand the 3221WN w/the 501 (3.4lb w/13.3 lb capacity) head sounds like it would best suit my needs. The 501 (3433 head) can handle extra weight, which opens up additonal options, is the only one with a slide (which provides added stability by allowing the scope's weight to be centered directly over the tripod) - and many say has the smoothest action of the three. But it has a total weight of 9.6 lbs - and w/Zeiss is 13.6 lbs.

My Rollei w/the Zeiss is only 9.5 lbs - but I would readily accept an additional weight penalty if it offers a substantial reduction in wind vibration and smoother and easier control of the scope.

Any input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Jim

scampo · Apr 24, 2004

I have that scope (what an amazing zoom it is, too!) and changed from a Velbon to a Manfrotto / Bogen 055 + their new lightweight 700RC head. It has genuinely made a world of difference, both in stability and smoothness of panning. It wouldn't be too much of an exaggeration to say it has improved my birdwatching significantly.

Jim Archer · Apr 24, 2004

JimG said:
I live in Fairbanks, Alaska and this is my first post. I recently bought a Zeiss 85 T FL 20-60 green/angled scope and while I'm happy with the scope I'm not happy with the amount of shake/vibration I get at the higher powers with a mild breeze (4-6 mph). As a result I'm considering upgrading my existing tripod - but only if it will actually make a significant difference. (Won't any tripod w/spotting scope vibrate excessively at 50-60 power in moderate wind? Especially with the center column extended?). Another complaint with my current tripod is that I have to play with the adjustments/controls too much when I would rather focus on bird viewing.

Any input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Jim

Have you considered a wooden tripod. They are popular in Finland and parts of the USA, i.e. have really cold weather!
Try a search here on "Wood Tripod".

IanF · Apr 24, 2004

Hi Jim,

On behalf of Admin and the Moderators, welcome to Bird Forum :t:

A brief answer to your query would be - Yes! - a sturdy stable tripod will significantly reduce the vibration. I use the Manfrotto 055NAT / 128 RC head and I am very happy with the combo. I have not long ago bought the MAN443 carbon fibre tripod in roder to save a bit of weight, but I still think the 055NAT is more sturdy. I do like the look of the 501 head which I think is better, but the extra weight I can do without.

See you around.

cthomas · Apr 26, 2004

Swarovski ATS-80-HD

I'm looking at the 700RC2 NAT head and a 3221GN3 tripod. Do I also need a sliding plate like the 3273? I' using a Swarovski ATS-80-HD scope with a Coolpix 4300 camera.

Carl

JimG · Apr 26, 2004

cthomas said:
I'm looking at the 700RC2 NAT head and a 3221GN3 tripod. Do I also need a sliding plate like the 3273? I' using a Swarovski ATS-80-HD scope with a Coolpix 4300 camera.

I was considering the 3221GN3 as well until I found out it was essentially the same as the 3221WN except that it was green and more expensive - but more importantly lacked the 3221WN's "low angle adapter built in the center column for ground level shots" feature, which can be very handy. The 700RC2 NAT head is the same as the 700RC2 except that is green and is a few dollars more for the green color). The 700RC2's are only rated for 5.5 lbs so you should check the weights of scope and camera you mentioned and consider what your future needs might be.

Since you are probably pushing the weight capacity for this head a sliding plate would certainly help to center the weight, but the Bogen/Manfrotto web site does not list a sliding plate as an option which will fit the 700RC2 head. Nor for the next head up the 3130 (128RC). The 3273 is the standard plate for the 501 head, which is probably the best of the three and offers the most versatility - but is also the heaviest.

marco · Apr 27, 2004

B

The 357 sliding plate will fit on the 700rc2 head, in fact on any head using a 1/4 or 3/8 inch male thread. It has a serious effect on improving the balance of the scope with camera combination.

marco

JimG said:
cthomas said:

I'm looking at the 700RC2 NAT head and a 3221GN3 tripod. Do I also need a sliding plate like the 3273? I' using a Swarovski ATS-80-HD scope with a Coolpix 4300 camera.

I was considering the 3221GN3 as well until I found out it was essentially the same as the 3221WN except that it was green and more expensive - but more importantly lacked the 3221WN's "low angle adapter built in the center column for ground level shots" feature, which can be very handy. The 700RC2 NAT head is the same as the 700RC2 except that is green and is a few dollars more for the green color). The 700RC2's are only rated for 5.5 lbs so you should check the weights of scope and camera you mentioned and consider what your future needs might be.

Since you are probably pushing the weight capacity for this head a sliding plate would certainly help to center the weight, but the Bogen/Manfrotto web site does not list a sliding plate as an option which will fit the 700RC2 head. Nor for the next head up the 3130 (128RC). The 3273 is the standard plate for the 501 head, which is probably the best of the three and offers the most versatility - but is also the heaviest.

Click to expand...

JimG · Apr 27, 2004

marco said:
B The 357 sliding plate will fit on the 700rc2 head, in fact on any head using a 1/4 or 3/8 inch male thread. It has a serious effect on improving the balance of the scope with camera combination.

I couldn't find the 357 sliding plate on the Bogen/Manfrotto web site - can you provide more information?

cthomas · Apr 27, 2004

357

JimG said:
marco said:

B The 357 sliding plate will fit on the 700rc2 head, in fact on any head using a 1/4 or 3/8 inch male thread. It has a serious effect on improving the balance of the scope with camera combination.

I couldn't find the 357 sliding plate on the Bogen/Manfrotto web site - can you provide more information?

Click to expand...

At this site http://www.bogenimaging.us/ the 357 is listed as an Adapter 3/8WF - 5/8 Male. Not as a sliding plate. The only two things I liked about the 700RC2 was it's low weight and the quick lock leavers. On the 3130 you have knobs you have to turn up or down and it weights more.

Carl

JimG · Apr 27, 2004

cthomas said:
At this site http://www.bogenimaging.us/ the 357 is listed as an Adapter 3/8WF - 5/8 Male. Not as a sliding plate. The only two things I liked about the 700RC2 was it's low weight and the quick lock leavers. On the 3130 you have knobs you have to turn up or down and it weights more.

That adaptor is all I found when I searched that site also. I just checked the European Manfrotto site since the Euro & US #s are often different for the same item and found that the 357 corresponds to the US #3272.

cthomas · Apr 27, 2004

322rc2

JimG said:
cthomas said:

At this site http://www.bogenimaging.us/ the 357 is listed as an Adapter 3/8WF - 5/8 Male. Not as a sliding plate. The only two things I liked about the 700RC2 was it's low weight and the quick lock leavers. On the 3130 you have knobs you have to turn up or down and it weights more.

That adaptor is all I found when I searched that site also. I just checked the European Manfrotto site since the Euro & US #s are often different for the same item and found that the 357 corresponds to the US #3272.

Click to expand...

After talking to the guy at Bogen I'm seriously considering the 322RC2. I wonder if anybody else has used this head?

Carl

JimG · Apr 27, 2004

cthomas said:
After talking to the guy at Bogen I'm seriously considering the 322RC2. I wonder if anybody else has used this head?

I spoke w/someone knowledgeable in their marketing department. He said the 3272 was way too big for the 700RC2 and would also require the 3273 plate to go with it. He recommended the 577 RAPID CONNECT ADAPTER ASSEMBLY W/ SLIDING MOUNTING PLATE instead.

I tried a search of Bird Forum and it didn't turn up any other mention of the 322RC2.

cthomas · Apr 28, 2004

Too many choices

JimG said:
cthomas said:

After talking to the guy at Bogen I'm seriously considering the 322RC2. I wonder if anybody else has used this head?

I spoke w/someone knowledgeable in their marketing department. He said the 3272 was way too big for the 700RC2 and would also require the 3273 plate to go with it. He recommended the 577 RAPID CONNECT ADAPTER ASSEMBLY W/ SLIDING MOUNTING PLATE instead.

I tried a search of Bird Forum and it didn't turn up any other mention of the 322RC2.

Click to expand...

I don't know about you but after looking at all of the options for a tripod and head I'm really unsure which one to go with.

Carl

JimG · Apr 28, 2004

cthomas said:
I don't know about you but after looking at all of the options for a tripod and head I'm really unsure which one to go with.

I know what you mean. I've been going back and forth. At the moment I'm leaning toward getting the 3221WN501 Kit which includes the 3221 tripod, 501 head and a case for the tripod. (The kit is cheaper than buying the tripod and head separately - $274 at both Adorama and B&H) and paying an extra $70.50 for the 700RC2 head as well. Having both heads and switching based on use seems appealing, if I can rationalize the added cost. Then again....

tdb · Apr 28, 2004

Hi Jim:

I've got an Opticron 100 ES scope (heavier and longer than your Zeiss). Its on a Boben 503 Pro fluid head/Bogen 3221 tripod and works great. I had the 3130 head and felt it was too light, so I upgraded to the 503.

JimG said:
I live in Fairbanks, Alaska and this is my first post. I recently bought a Zeiss 85 T FL 20-60 green/angled scope. I'm very happy with the scope. I'm not happy with the excessive vibration I experience at 45-60 power with just a mild breeze (4-6 mph). With my current tripod I also have to repeatedly play with the adjustments/controls when I would rather remain focused on bird viewing. I would like to know if upgrading my existing tripod would make a significant difference in either or both of these areas.

My current tripod is a 4.5 lb, aluminum, Rollei 'Special' with 3 piece legs. It came w/an attached head, has a total closed length of 25.5" w/head, max height in 'set' position of 54.5" w/head, and w/center column extends to a max height of 68.5". Legs use vertical quick release/lock tabs and have adjustable rubber feet w/exposable alloy spikes. It is over 25 years old and has served well over that time.

Based on recommendations from numerous threads on this forum I am leaning toward getting the Bogen (Manfrotto) 3221WN (055) w/3130 (128RC) QR -possibly in the form of the 3178WNK Wilderness Kit (which throws in a tripod case). The 3130 has the advantage of being the only one of the three accepting the 200CZ1 Zeiss plate (Bogen's tech support claims that eventually the screw will work its way loose w/o this plate and the scope will fall off). The 3221 weighs 6.2 lbs and the 3130 weighs 2.3 lbs (w/8.9 lb capacity). The Zeiss scope is about 4 lbs, which would make this a hefty 12.5 lb combination.

I am also considering the 700RC2 (1.1 lb w/5.5 lb capacity) in conjunction with the 3021BN tripod which is the same as the 3221WN except that it is not padded and lacks the spiked feet - and which only weighs 5.1 lbs. This would keep total tripod weight down to 6.2 lbs - and w/Zeiss 10.2lbs.

On the other hand the 3221WN w/the 501 (3.4lb w/13.3 lb capacity) head sounds like it would best suit my needs. The 501 (3433 head) can handle extra weight, which opens up additonal options, is the only one with a slide (which provides added stability by allowing the scope's weight to be centered directly over the tripod) - and many say has the smoothest action of the three. But it has a total weight of 9.6 lbs - and w/Zeiss is 13.6 lbs.

My Rollei w/the Zeiss is only 9.5 lbs - but I would readily accept an additional weight penalty if it offers a substantial reduction in wind vibration and smoother and easier control of the scope.

Any input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Jim

BobM · May 19, 2004

Wind vibration

Since you are probably pushing the weight capacity for this head a sliding plate would certainly help to center the weight, but the Bogen/Manfrotto web site does not list a sliding plate as an option which will fit the 700RC2 head. Nor for the next head up the 3130 (128RC). The 3273 is the standard plate for the 501 head, which is probably the best of the three and offers the most versatility - but is also the heaviest.[/QUOTE]

My current camera is a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ10, which has 12x optical zoom (plus 3x digital) and optical image stabilization. The optical zoom range of the camera is equivalent to 35mm-420mm. I got the camera to use shooting wildlife on backpacking trips where I've found that large mammals (caribou, bears, moose, etc.) often seem to feel crowded within 200 yds. (~180 metres). Stalking to get closer can be difficult to impossible unless there is decent cover. Despite the reach of the camera, it just isn't enough, so I've been looking at teleconverters and digiscoping. There are a couple of teleconverters that would get me close to the reach I'd like, but a scope would clearly be better, except for the focusing and stability issues. (I realize I'd need a new camera with a scope and would appreciate advice in that regard)

I was quite taken aback to read in the initial post in this thread that a wind of 4-6 mph is enough to make digiscoping problematic. It's also a bit depressing to read some of the recommendations in this thread, in view of the weights of the tripods, heads, mounting plates, etc., given that I'd be schlepping it around for a week or more. Has anyone here any experience with the Velbon Maxi 343E or the 347GB? How about with the Bogen/Manfrotto Long Lens Camera Support (cat. #3252) or the Telephoto Lens Support (cat. #3421)? The Velbon's are very light, but apparently sturdy and will support up to 8 lbs. Assuming either of the Bogen lens supports would fit, would they help to stabilize a scope in a fair breeze (say, 15-20 mph) so I could get steady photos?

Thanks for your help.
Bob

Andy Bright · May 19, 2004

In terms of legsets, most of the Manfrottos are very solid and a match for anything in that price range. When you're dealing with 45x-60x on a scope, you really need something sturdy if the wind is up...though 4-6mph shouldn't be a problem. Alternatives to reduce wind vibration are lowering the 'pod to minimum working height....spread the legs out as wide as they'll go to give a bigger 'footprint'. Also make use of a 'stonebag' or something heavy hanging down from the centre column.
A lightweight scope on a poor tripod isn't as good as a heavy scope on a poor tripod

The 501 head is very good but usually overkill for most...the 128rc is often the best bet and is fine with the 357 sliding plate.

pluvanut · May 31, 2004

Late respone to your 'wind vibration' post - I've only just read. If you haven't already bought, take a look at Gitzo Explorer. I had a similar problem with long telephoto lenses until changing to it.
Most tripods have a simple pivot at the leg top, which may be OK vertically, but relies on close fit sideways. As wind works sideways (!) torsional stiffness is important - take a firm hold on the platform and twist. The Explorer seemed particularly good to me, maybe because it uses a clamp at each leg top to set the (infinitely variable - no stops) leg angle, so there is no slack.

Cost is around £150 in the UK, don't know about $US.

Other benefits: very versatile, works from virtually ground level to 5ft (6ft with column extended - but less stiff, of course) and will stand safely on very rough or steep ground; plus Gitzo build quality - very rugged; gives the impression of lasting a lifetime.

Down sides: not the lightest, weighs about the same as the figures you mentioned, about 5 lbs (no head). CF version is less than 1/2lb lighter and cost more than twice as much.

I haven't tried with a scope. Will do when it gets windy. I use use only 20 or 30x (just about) with a shoulder rest or monopod (Gitzo again).

Worth a look if you want quality/rigidity. Good luck

Would tripod upgrade significantly reduce wind vibration & improve ease of sighting? (1 Viewer)

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