Advantages of the 7x43 over the 7x36? (1 Viewer)

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum. I just began birding this August after a visit to Hawk Mountain and have been addicted since, but I have to say that binoculars have become even more addicting. I've since purchased the Zen ED3 8x43, Zen ED2 8x43, Zen ED2 7x36, Nikon 8x32 se, Zeiss conquest 8x30, and the Leupold B-3 mojave 8x42. Of all these I still have the Zen ED2 8x43, the Zen ED2 7x36 and the Nikon 8x32 se. Interestingly I actually loved the ED3 optics but they were the first bino I got and could not get used to the large eye relief, which at the time I had no clue, I was jamming the eyepieces into my eyes and getting blackouts, thus my choice to go with the ED2. Yet with experience I find it much better to leave the eyecups of the ED2's turned halfway out and just rest them on my eyebrows. I'm thinking that in this position they would be similiar to the ED3's turned all the way out. The Nikon se were recently purchased on here in a search for better edge performance and also after experiencing the Nikon premier roofs at a Nikon demo day at hawk mountain. The only gripe I have with the Zens are when I am scanning the skies for hawks, the halo of distortion around the edges takes away from the experience. This is the only time I notice it and it is only on certian sky conditions which I have not taken the time to identifiy. When I actually get a hawk in view the edges cease to be a distraction and I am engrossed in the sweet, sharp detailed view. Unless the hawk is miles in the distance. I purchase the 7x36's about 10 days ago, after experiencing my grandmothers old Technar 7x35 porro's. Even though they were not as bright, there was just something I really liked about looking through those binos.(I beleive they were the budget Swift models back then) After much research on this forum, I've since identified it as the relaxed view and lack of shaking. Thus I would like to own a 7x. So with 20 days left to return the 7x36's, I'm wandering if it would be worth the shipping cost to try the 7x43's. I am 44 years old and not sure if the larger exit pupil would be an advantage for me. I was wandering what other advantages there would be? I orginally choose the 7x36 configuration because of the smaller size and weight, but I am finding the 8x43's are just as comfortable to hold. Something else that caught my eye was something that FrankD wrote in another post about his eyes being able to roam around better in the 43's during hawkwatching. This appeals to me. My other hope is that on the 43's the edge distortion will be farther out in the view and less of a distraction. I do realize to get rid of this type of distortion I would have to pay alpha prices and I can see the purchase of the Zeiss or Leica 7x42's in my distant future, but for now I am happy in the midpriced zone. Any input from your experiences would be greatly appreciated. I will probably pull the trigger this weekend if I do decide to order the 43's.

John

John:
Welcome to the Birdforum, you have been busy with your binocular studies.
I think you have a good idea of what the differences are, and it is your eyes that will
be the final judge. One recommendation I have, with mostly 7x and 8x mentioned,
is to try out a 10X binocular. You may like one, to round out your viewing.

Jerry

Jerry

IMHO the biggest difference between ED2 and ED3 is the non optical stuff. You've owned both ED3 and ED2 so you know the deal -- better focus knob, faster focus, better rubber armor, etc. If you like the ergos of the ED3 better than it might be worth it for that and the larger exit pupil.

the 7x43 ED3 is so new that you aren't going to find anyone with immediate feedback on a direct A/B comparo. In my experience (having owned 7x36 ED2 and now 8x43 ED3) the ED3's do have a slightly wider sweet spot and better edges, plus much improved glare/flare control.

plus, considering how many bins you've already churned through in such a short time, you obviously enjoy the gear-junkie game so it seems worth the shipping cost to at least try them out yourself. Order a pair and compare them yourself to the 7x36 ED2's (and then report back here!)... nothing will beat your own personal experience as binocular preferences are very subjective.

Hey Jerry,
Thanks for the welcome. Funny you should mention it's my eyes that will be the final judge, because right after I got done posting this thread I thought, wait a minute, I have a Zen 43 and a 36, who cares if there different powers, just compare them and see for yourself. Which I did for a couple hours this morning and I definetly prefer the 43's objective lens veiw better. Funny how we get caught in tunnel vision. I can see your point on the 10x bino also, because I actually never even tried a 10x out for myself. I have been tunneling along with the idea that 10x are just too shaky, but I never even tried it myself to find out if that holds true for me. Guess I have more binos to try. This is so fun but getting expensive. Maybe a trip to the Lost Creek Shoe Store is in order, never been there but it's only about a 2 hr drive for me and from the post on here it sounds great to be able to try the binos outside in the countryside. On another note, I finally got to spend some time with the Nikon se's on a sunny day this morning. It's been raining since I got them on Tuesday. All I can say is, as of now these are my favorite binocular. Again it's that undescribable quality. I think I've seen someone describe it as transparency of veiw. Like your 8x closer to the object. Whatever ya call it, the Nikon's have it and I really like it. Perhaps it's a porro thing. These definetly have a home here as my fair weather binocular. Not sure if I need a 7x now, maybe just 8x's and 10x's. Onward with the experimenting.

John

Thanks for the info eitanaltman. You got me pegged with the gear-junkie, for sure. I believe your right also, I do enjoy it enough that it would be worth the shipping. If I like these, I believe my ED2 8x43's will be going up for sale. The Nikons have replaced them as far as I'm concerned and the 7x will be my poor weather bino. Perhaps a 10x to round it out, if they work for me.

John

John,

Lets get together, if u have time, this weekend. I still have the ED3 7x43 prototype and the 7x36 ED2. I live about 15 minutes east of Hawk mountain in Lehigh county. We could even meet up at Hawk mtn if u like so u can see how they do in hawkwatching conditions.

Hey Frank that sounds like a great idea. I have plans to Christmas shopping on sat
But I'm available on Friday and Sunday. Hawk MT would be good too. Let me know
I'm typing this on my phone which is a little laborious.
John

I can totally relate to that. I sent my previous message on my cell as well hence the "u" instead of "you". I reverted to "text-ese" there for a minute.

PM sent.

Stet said:

....On another note, I finally got to spend some time with the Nikon se's on a sunny day this morning. It's been raining since I got them on Tuesday. All I can say is, as of now these are my favorite binocular. Again it's that undescribable quality. I think I've seen someone describe it as transparency of veiw. Like your 8x closer to the object. Whatever ya call it, the Nikon's have it and I really like it. Perhaps it's a porro thing. These definetly have a home here as my fair weather binocular. Not sure if I need a 7x now, maybe just 8x's and 10x's. Onward with the experimenting.

John

Click to expand...

It could be in part a "porro thing" since porros give a more natural view in that they show a better 3-D effect like you would see with your eyes. Most roofs tend to compress the views such that objects at various distances appear closer to each other - one tree line blends into another, foreground and background are not as widely separated. This is usually more noticeably at 10x than 8x and less evident at 7x and most noticeable in midsized roofs.

A comparison btwn the 8x32 HG vs. 8x32 SE shows this differences in spatial compression quite clearly.

The 7x36 ED2 had the best 3-D representation I've seen in a roof prism bin. At some distances it showed better spatial separation than my 8x30 EII.

The "transparency" you are experiencing with the SE might be at least in part due the edges being sharp, which makes the view look more natural (like you're 8x closer) because it mimics what you see with your eyes.

The red bias of the SEs also provide more color contrast and adds "pop" to the image.

The SE is often used as a reference standard to compare other bins. Find a roof prism binocular that gives you the same qualities as the SE, and you're experimenting days will be over. But expect to pay a high premium for an equally "transparent" view in a roof.

Brock

Brock,
Although I hadn't indentified it as such, the spatial compression is very apparent to me when scanning the woods for deer. I'm searching the spaces between the trees looking for anything that would resemble a part of a deers body. The Nikon se gives me the most natural look and maintains the best spatial relations between trees, while the Zen 7x36 is also quite relaxed and pleasing to me, in fact, in this type of situation is where the 7x really shine in my opinion, but I find with the Zen 8x43's the spatial relation seems to all but disappear. I loose all sense of space between tree trunks, as the trees and foilage in the background are indeed compressed with the foreground trees, leaving me with a collage of trees. It's not quite as bad as I make it sound, but I have never been happy with the 8x in this situation and I imagine it would be the same with most 8x roofs. I can only imagine this is quite worse with the 10x.

John