feedback please! on bin+camera (1 Viewer)

Hi,

I SO often find I am looking at a bird in the binoculars, trying to memorize every detail of his or her appearance, and then boop! it flies away. No ID made.

I carry little binocs (8x24). They may be little and light, but they are great in terms of what I can see.

The camera+binocs I see are SO EXPENSIVE and heavy.
I'm not trying to make art, I just want a "record shot" to study later.

Will you PLEASE look at my idea below and give me feedback?

1. Do you ever want to "shoot a picture through your binoculars"?
2. Would that be worth 50$ to you?
3. Would you be willing to temporarily give up one of the eyepieces so a sensor could go there?

Really, really appreciate any criticism or feedback.
Many thanks in advance.
K
New Orleans|=)|

A novel concept, and not a terrible idea at all. I personally wouldn't be interested - I don't even bother carrying a camera any more 99% of the time, I greatly prefer two eyes for observation and if something occasionally gets away from me, so be it.

On your idea, could you not make the wireless sending unit and electronics smaller, and make the whole thing into a little ring that could just fit around the eyepiece with the cmos sensor over the eyepiece and the electronics above (out of the way of cheek/bridge of nose). Then you could just 3D print your compression rings to fit over the eyecups of various models of bins.

Thanks so much for your good ideas and feedback.

If you make the cmos sensor to go inside the rubber eye cup:
1. Keeps it down in the cup so doesn’t bother your eye
2 one size fits large and small eye cups with that flexible edge.

From the sound of it you are a bit of a pro who doesn’t need to run home to look up stuff every time like me . ?

krizmitch said:

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1. Do you ever want to "shoot a picture through your binoculars"?
2. Would that be worth 50$ to you?
3. Would you be willing to temporarily give up one of the eyepieces so a sensor could go there?

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Click to expand...

ad 1. Yes
ad 2. Yes, even more than that.
ad 3. NO (see below)

What you propose is in fact a very cheap version of the new Swarovski dG (and yes, the dG is SO expensive!). You observe birds, take pictures while observing and have your image directly on a WLAN connected smartphone.

I have recently reviewed the dG (see separate post under „Swarovski“) and found the camera mechanism somewhat wanting.
The main concern for me, however, is that the spotting of birds, esp. in trees etc., with one eye / tube only is much more difficult (at least for me) than with a two-tube binocular.

I like your idea, but if there was a way to mount a third tube (from a monocular) for the sensor and keep the two binocular tubes free for both eyes, I would clearly prefer that.

Canip,
Thank you so much for your kind reply.
You are right, the Dg runs $2300!
I am thinking about junior birders like myself with budgetary restrictions.

With regard to your point about one eye on the Dg:
1. I Didn’t get to test it like you did, but did read a review and looked at the pictures. Did it have a regular binocular feel in that both eyecups rested symmetrically on both sides of your nose?
2. With this little CMOS unit pushed down in the eyecup it doesn’t feel different, still feels balanced on my face and comfortable.

Really appreciate your feedback and experience! Thanks again!

What I'd really want is trinoculars, and to minimize bulk the camera tube should use catadioptric or diffractive optics rather than the conventional ones Swarovski is using.

1. Do you ever want to "shoot a picture through your binoculars"? Yes
2. Would that be worth 50$ to you? Depending on convenience/size/performance
3. Would you be willing to temporarily give up one of the eyepieces so a sensor could go there? Yes

I find this very interesting and attractive. Nearly on an everyday basis I "shoot a picture through your binoculars", and I "temporarily give up one of the eyepieces" in order to do so. I put the smarphone on the eyepiece (a lowcost alternative). Sometimes, to take a quick snap, I just hold it in place manually (it is essential to have the eyecups all the way up). If I want to follow a swift/swallow in flight (this is, a subject moving at a fast pace with random direction) I use an adaptor, and simply use the binoculars as a monocular, thus, the smartphone camera on the eyepiece that I give up is pointing to where I'm looking at. I find this is more useful for video recording, something I do very often, and not because I'm particularly fond of videos, but because I use the slow-mo video feature on the smartphone camera, I have learnt that back at home slow-mo footage can reveal many things that escape the eye.

I use this technique basically because it makes use of things I have at hand: the smartphone I lug around everyday plus the binos on my hand. Find attached a series of pictures taken this way (as I say, I use this for videos as well). If I want to press the shutter while following a bird in flight (while watching through the other ocular) I use the volumen setting on the earphones, it works as a shutter, and you don't have to touch the screen. So a viable alternative with good performance, that could be attached to old-style roll-down eyecups as well as contemporary twist-up ones could be really a thing. As has been said, if the device was wireless (and apparently, no bigger than the size of a bottle cap) now I'd definitely be interested.

An additional and unexpected thing happens when using binoculars this way: each device reveals an "inner true": its photographic performance sometimes does not equal its "perceived performance with the naked eye" (for worse, but also for better).
For example, the 8x30 Habicht renders simply stunningly clear images, as is to be expected, but the Swarovski 8x30 CL (new) suffers from incredible CA, it's a worrying revelation that the pictures through the eyepiece reveal. The new Kowa BDXDII 6.5 behave surprisingly well, as does the Nikon EII. The following pictures are as follows
Shearwater: Habicht 8x30 (handheld)
Booted eagle: Nikon SE 10x42 (handheld)
Kestrel: Zeiss FL 7x42 (handheld)
Gecko: Kowa BD II 6.5 (with adapter)

Kritzmisch, post 1,
Since the invention of photography binocular-camera producers started to design binoculars with built-in camera's. If you want a quick overview look at the powerpoint presentation "Multifunctional binoculars and telescopes in the past four centuries"I presented at the 2017 meeting of the Binocular History Society. You can find it on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor under the topic "Verrekijkers testen en vergelijken". From all the constructions I have seen passing by not one convinced me to use it, despite some beautiful designs.
Gijs van Ginkel

Dear Yarelli,
Your reply is very much appreciated!

I, too have tried holding my phone to the eyepiece , and know it works, but very hard for me to steady!

Your pictures are amazing, and certainly very helpful for identification and study, which is what I seek.

Very interesting about the CA with the Swarovski.

Would you have interest in using a prototype in your several models if it looks like enough folks are interested?

Thanks again for taking time to reply and showing these exciting pics and alerting me to issues with different lenses!

Regards
K
New Orleans

Hi,
Thanks so much!
I did go there, but all in German. The translation was difficult to read.
Is it available in English format?
Appreciate your reply!
K
New Orleans

Kritzmich, post 10,
It is not clear from your post who you are referring to, but if it is to my powerpoint presentation: that is in English.
Gijs van Ginkel

Hi Gijs,
Thanks so much for reply, could you please send the link for your PowerPoint?
Thanks
K

kritzmitch post 12,
I hoped that you would not ask, since it is so much fun to learn Dutch, but here it comes"
houseofoutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Multifunctional-binoculars-and-telescopes-in-the-past-four-centuries-2017.pdf
Gijs van Ginkel

Gijs van Ginkel said:

kritzmitch post 12,
I hoped that you would not ask, since it is so much fun to learn Dutch, but here it comes"
houseofoutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Multifunctional-binoculars-and-telescopes-in-the-past-four-centuries-2017.pdf
Gijs van Ginkel

Click to expand...

Reviewed all 111 picture filled pages.
What a treasure trove of amazing images and inventions, with excellent commentary, documentation, and explanation!
It would be such an honor to be in that group.

Congrats on putting together such a fascinating document on the history of binoculars, and a look at their many, many uses.

best
K

Gijs van Ginkel said:

I hoped that you would not ask, since it is so much fun to learn Dutch, but here it comes"

Click to expand...

Ah, yes, I remember the glow of pride 20 years ago when I asked an Amsterdam cab "Naar Schiphol alstublieft" and he did a double-take and asked me disbelievingly "Praat u Nederlands?". Not sure if I can pronounce 's'Hertogenbosch or Grachtergordel" to pass muster by the Dutch Resistance, however.

Met vriendelijke groet...
🇳🇱🇳🇱🇳🇱

kritzmich,post 14,
Thank you for your appreciation of my presentation; it was a pleasure to make the powerpoint.
Gijs van Ginkel

fazalmajid said:

Ah, yes, I remember the glow of pride 20 years ago when I asked an Amsterdam cab "Naar Schiphol alstublieft" and he did a double-take and asked me disbelievingly "Praat u Nederlands?". Not sure if I can pronounce 's'Hertogenbosch or Grachtergordel" to pass muster by the Dutch Resistance, however.

Met vriendelijke groet...
🇳🇱🇳🇱🇳🇱

Click to expand...

The Dutch resistance only asks you to pronounce 'Scheveningen' o

Tasco binocular camera

Gijs van Ginkel said:

Kritzmisch, post 1,
Since the invention of photography binocular-camera producers started to design binoculars with built-in camera's. If you want a quick overview look at the powerpoint presentation "Multifunctional binoculars and telescopes in the past four centuries"I presented at the 2017 meeting of the Binocular History Society. You can find it on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor under the topic "Verrekijkers testen en vergelijken". From all the constructions I have seen passing by not one convinced me to use it, despite some beautiful designs.
Gijs van Ginkel

Click to expand...

Tasco marketed two models. The 7800 had a fixed camera lens whilst the 8000 had three interchangeable lenses. 50mm, 100mm and 150.
It's big failing was using 110 type film. The Japanese optics were good but the negative was so small.

Hi Richard,
Appreciate your response!

Any thoughts about using digital imaging by employing one of the two oculars and sending those images wirelessly to a smartphone?

thanks,
K
New Orleans

krizmitch said:

Would you have interest in using a prototype in your several models if it looks like enough folks are interested?

Click to expand...

Yes, sure, but I'm afraid I live on the wrong side of the Pond.

Anyway, I've been thinking about the device you are working on, and here are some considerations.
The battery unit could be simply attached to the strap via some sort of zip-tie, Ty-rap or the like.

What I am most interested/concerned is in the use of the sensor (i. e. the photographic capabilities). For example, if I'm following a swift in flight, I'd like to shoot at a speed of at least 1/1000 s, while if I want to take a picture of a stone curlew hidden under an almond tree, then I would like to boost the ISO to at least 800-1600 in order to get some clarity and thus being able to identify. On the other hand, if I'm taking a picture of a bird on a branch really far away, then I'm interested in using the lowest ISO possible, in order to obtain some detail even if I crop the image heavily. With the camera app of a regular Android device (or with any camera app for that matter) I'm able to adapt those parameters to what I'm looking for. Have you considered something like this? Just thoughts that came to my mind thinking about your development