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Eagles at Haweswater! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter pdg330
- Start date
It's been done before, it's only in the last few years the viewpoint has only been manned at weekends.
You make a good point but if they were breeding there, there wouldn't be a shortage of volunteers, there wasn't in the past.
Think Bass is busier, it has two sites to man as well as the protection side and it is a much more accessible site as I'm sure you know.
If there were two pairs of Golden Eagle (a dream I know) then I'm pretty sure they wouldn't publicise one too much for all the reasons you've said. Likewise the lack of publicity for other known breeding Ospreys in The lakes.
You make a good point but if they were breeding there, there wouldn't be a shortage of volunteers, there wasn't in the past.
Think Bass is busier, it has two sites to man as well as the protection side and it is a much more accessible site as I'm sure you know.
If there were two pairs of Golden Eagle (a dream I know) then I'm pretty sure they wouldn't publicise one too much for all the reasons you've said. Likewise the lack of publicity for other known breeding Ospreys in The lakes.
The Warden I was talking to said they would guard the nest 24/7 the same day that they discovered they had a pair. I looked inside the hut and he wasn't sleeping as he no means of doing so.
I agree - I would be up there like a shot to volunteer to guard a pair of GE. Oh, for the opportunity.
Ha ha You'd b suprised at what they will sleep on. Believe it or not, it's been known for three of them to stay out in the hide when there was a pair, I'm not sure about the en suite facilities though.....
saluki
Well-known member
I had two Goldies talon grappling last week in Argyll Craig. They were at a tremendous distance but both birds looked the same size and both appeared to be adults, I came to the conclusion it was a territorial battle rather than any sort of display behaviour. I've been watching one pair for some time, they rarely cross the glen, presumably this is the edge of their territory as the bird was attacked above the moorland on the 'wrong' side of the glen.
Cheers
Jonathan
Farnboro John
Well-known member
Craig H
Well-known member
Interesting - thanks for the info.
However both accounts (sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth, so to speak, Jonathan) seem to describe two males grappling rather than a male and female using it in a courtship display. Also, quite a while ago when that article was written, so I guess its either a very poorly recorded behaviour, or (as it states in the article as well) just very uncommon behaviour.
However both accounts (sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth, so to speak, Jonathan) seem to describe two males grappling rather than a male and female using it in a courtship display. Also, quite a while ago when that article was written, so I guess its either a very poorly recorded behaviour, or (as it states in the article as well) just very uncommon behaviour.
Farnboro John
Well-known member
Funnily enough there is one possibility that fits with "poorly recorded", which is that the behaviour is so normal that experienced eagle watchers who are not scientific recorders of behaviour instances don't consider it worth mentioning.
For which reason I now think we should pose the question formally:
Who on BF has seen Golden Eagles talon-grappling anywhere?
John
saluki
Well-known member
Apart from those species that use it in display, I think talon grappling is perhaps something that a number of species of raptor do to protect themselves when attacked by another bird of the same species - the attacked bird simply roles on it's back and presents it's feet. I doubt the pursuer intends to kill the pursued in most instances, it's simply an act of aggression. I watched two Gosses talon grappling in North Wales a few months ago - an adult female pursuing a 1st winter female, presumably her offspring from last year. They fell some distance, revolving several times. Seconds before, she'd made a short, shallow stoop at the juv, knocking out several feathers. I've no doubt she could have killed the youngster had she chosen to do so.
Cheers
Jonathan
AStevenson
Well-known member
The topic of talon-grappling, cartwheeling etc. is covered in the Poyser monograph The Golden Eagle. Such behaviour is more common (apparently) in Sea/Fish eagles however it quotes a study showing that 80% of 107 well documented instances amongst these species were aggressive largely refuting the view that it's a courtship behaviour.
It probably occurs more often in golden eagles than is written up . I spend a fair bit of time watching/monitoring eagles and all the talon-grappling I've seen (including several instances this year) both between golden eagles and golden & white-tail has been aggressive or appeared so. I've seen white-tails do it in circumstances suggesting it was possibly courtship but it could have been an intruder or like the situation in the ref Farnboro John quoted of 2 males vying for a female.
cheers, Andrew
It probably occurs more often in golden eagles than is written up . I spend a fair bit of time watching/monitoring eagles and all the talon-grappling I've seen (including several instances this year) both between golden eagles and golden & white-tail has been aggressive or appeared so. I've seen white-tails do it in circumstances suggesting it was possibly courtship but it could have been an intruder or like the situation in the ref Farnboro John quoted of 2 males vying for a female.
cheers, Andrew
The sniper
Well-known member
Is there any news on this???
Reason I ask is a friend of mine saw a golden eagle while in the north Pennines last week while walking in the area,he said he was around 10km west of kielder water and it looked like a young bird
Reason I ask is a friend of mine saw a golden eagle while in the north Pennines last week while walking in the area,he said he was around 10km west of kielder water and it looked like a young bird
Kielder is just South of the border with Scotland and a pair of Eagles nested North of Kielder and South of the border a few years ago. A young bird from Scotland could reach the area you mention in a matter of minutes.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
I've seen White-bellied Sea Eagles and Lesser-spotted Eagles engaging in talon-grappling and in both cases it was clearly not a display act, both sets of birds narrowly avoiding death by separating just feet before crashing in to the ground / Ocean. I think you have to be pretty lucky to observe this behaviour unless youare able to watch birds over very extended periods of time.
I'm chipping in very late here and I'd lean toward the generous side and say that it is 'possible' that an Eagle was mobbed by a Buzzard? I'd like to know the % of claims at this site which are proven to have been Eagles, they are probably, hugely over reported by inexperienced birders who go there expecting to see one.
Those with little experience of 'Goldies' are really unprepared for the size difference between them and Buzzards and I've even heard people say 'Eagles were everywhere, sitting on fenceposts at the roadside!' after a week in Scotland when what they saw were clearly Buzzards which are big, but not that big!
What has been described is not impossible but highly improbable and the photos don't really help to resolve it.
Andy
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pete seaman
Well-known member
Although it will never solve the OP's query I have just got part way through the book "Call of the Eagle" written by Dave Walker, who worked on both Eagle areas ,without disclosing the site of the Western pair although there is a photo of the valley. I had read his other smaller book "Lakeland Eagles" but this book is more expansive and just shows how much graft goes into the study of such birds. I found it very inspiring reading last week when looking for raptors (in a much more casual manner) in a very foggy Galloway Forest Park, As said no way will it answer the questions raised here but a good read (no I'm not on commission)
danevansBOP
Well-known member
Anyone been down hawswater lately? went down a few weeks ago before the bad weather. I've heard he is notoriously difficult to see in the winter?
was thinking off having a drive down sometime when it's not raining(rare)
was thinking off having a drive down sometime when it's not raining(rare)
Digbert Doobrey
Well-known member
Forgive my ignorance on this subject. This has probably been discussed many times before and there is presumably obvious reasons but if there has been a lone male bird there for some considerable time why has it never been attempted to introduce a female bird to the area for him to mate with?
The "official" line with reintroduction is that there is no point introducing birds if they won't form a self sustaining population: the Lake District is not judged to have sufficient ranges to hold a self sustaining population.
If there is contact between the Lake District and other populations then the self sustaining caveat doesn't apply, but then if there is contact then new birds should arrive in the Lakes of their own volition.
However...
All the studies I've see relate to the Lake District only and not a wider Northern England population, which given the range of Golden Eagles should be encompassed into the total potential ranges.
The new introduction project in the south of Scotland http://www.goldeneaglessouthofscotland.co.uk/ has a target number of pairs well below the 20 pair threshold deemed self sustaining in the Lakes. So may be the goalposts are moving. Plus if successful the south of Scotland birds offer a source of Lakes birds.
If there is contact between the Lake District and other populations then the self sustaining caveat doesn't apply, but then if there is contact then new birds should arrive in the Lakes of their own volition.
However...
All the studies I've see relate to the Lake District only and not a wider Northern England population, which given the range of Golden Eagles should be encompassed into the total potential ranges.
The new introduction project in the south of Scotland http://www.goldeneaglessouthofscotland.co.uk/ has a target number of pairs well below the 20 pair threshold deemed self sustaining in the Lakes. So may be the goalposts are moving. Plus if successful the south of Scotland birds offer a source of Lakes birds.
Digbert Doobrey
Well-known member
Thanks for the info. I knew there had to be an obvious reason that I wasn't considering. I haven't visited the Lake District since I was a child so I'm not familiar with the area. It does seem a shame though that some sort of reintroduction program hasn't been attempted particularly when you think of what's been achieved with Ospreys, Red Kites and White Tailed Eagles.
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