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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Lancs Eagle Owls (1 Viewer)

I went yesterday o:D

We set off from near Hull at 8am and headed across the M62 - took us quite a while to get to Dunsop Bridge and probably just as long to get from the village to the view point - but it was well worth it !!

I was keeping my eyes open for anything else on the way - but other than a Grey Wagtail the upwards journey was more about getting there in one piece.

When I got there I quickly found the female and one of the young and got superb views of both - I was kindly allowed to use someone's scope which was set up on the female. As has been said, it was like seeing one from a falconry display - except there wasn't a nice chap with a leather glove holding it !!

I appreciate the arguement that they may be escapees or released birds - but those 3 juveniles aren't, they must have been born in the wild - making them at least wild british birds :h?:

While I was there I also saw a couple of Ravens up in the sky behind us - which was an unexpected delight.

All in all, was it worth the 9 hour round trip - the several miles of uphill walking - the severe sunburn on the back of my neck ........ definitely, would do it again in a heartbeat.

5 owls down ...... 2 to go :hi:

Mal Skelton
 
These birds are definatly wild according to the ranger, they have been in the area for 3 or 4 years now and nested last year but unfortunately were unsuccessful. At what point do you stop calling them escapees?

I'm just reallyb glad to have had the opportunity to see them.
 
malskelton said:
I appreciate the arguement that they may be escapees or released birds - but those 3 juveniles aren't, they must have been born in the wild - making them at least wild british birds :h?:
Click to expand...

Even the parents might have been born in the wild. We don't know - but if they are acting like wild birds, I don't see why people see them as "plastic"
 
Paul Jarvis said:
These birds are definatly wild according to the ranger, they have been in the area for 3 or 4 years now and nested last year but unfortunately were unsuccessful. At what point do you stop calling them escapees?
Click to expand...

An escape is an escape even if it lives 30 years. It didn't get here naturally.

Back in the 1960s there was a pair of Ross's Geese (one with a colour ring) which lived with Greylags in Scotland for about three winters running. They migrated with the Greylags to Iceland and even bred in Iceland on at least one occasion, though unsuccessfully (actually they laid but their eggs were taken so that Iceland did not become "polluted" with feral geese!). Should they be counted as wild birds and accepted onto the British list? Or does the rule apply to geese but not owls????

I'm sure that somebody will correct me on this, but I thought that there was a set period of time that a species has to breed in the wild and be completely self sustaining, with no help from Man and no further introductions before it can be accepted as "naturalised" and accepted onto the British List.
 
You're correct , Coigach. You can't "tick" them for the reasons you quoted. However , I went to see them on Sunday and enjoyed seeing them.
Possible addition to our lists in the future ( weren't the Yorks. birds breeding for 10 years ? ).
Big dilemma now though. The wardens up there are doing a good job protecting them but they have apparently already taken a couple of hen harriers - remember they have been in the area for 2-3 years at least but only bred successfully this year. The decision to protect or cull/capture needs to be taken before the population gets too established.
I'm not sure myself. Enjoyed them on Sunday but never quite the same with introduced birds is it ?
 
cheshirebirder said:
Big dilemma now though. The wardens up there are doing a good job protecting them but they have apparently already taken a couple of hen harriers - remember they have been in the area for 2-3 years at least but only bred successfully this year. The decision to protect or cull/capture needs to be taken before the population gets too established.
I'm not sure myself. Enjoyed them on Sunday but never quite the same with introduced birds is it ?
Click to expand...

I didn't realise that they had already taken a couple of harriers. If this is correct, then they should be culled or recaptured immediately. Our harrier population is already fragile. It must not be allowed to be put under even more pressure by these owls.
 
Coigach said:
An escape is an escape even if it lives 30 years. It didn't get here naturally.
Click to expand...

but this pair of eagle owls may not be escapes. There have been dozens of eagle owls born in the wild in britain over the last 20 odd years, maybe longer.

If so, are they really any less "wild" than any other bird?
 
cheshirebirder said:
Big dilemma now though. The wardens up there are doing a good job protecting them but they have apparently already taken a couple of hen harriers - remember they have been in the area for 2-3 years at least but only bred successfully this year. The decision to protect or cull/capture needs to be taken before the population gets too established.
I'm not sure myself. Enjoyed them on Sunday but never quite the same with introduced birds is it ?
Click to expand...


Where did you hear this cheshirebirder?

For the record, I am not sure myself but verified reports like this would help me make up my mind.

Does anyone have any references to info on their hunting technique?
 
I was told by one of the wardens about the harriers. I assume he meant that was over the last year or so. To be fair ,I was told that the young had been fed mainly on rats and rabbits ( but also ducklings). Problem is , we don't have many hen harriers left in England and Bowland holds most of what's left.
Powers that be really need to weigh up the pros and cons quickly . Look what mink did to water voles , for example. Perhaps the RSPB could be more assertive about whether these (introduced )birds should be allowed to prosper or not.
 
I wonder how many hen harriers have been killed by humans over the same time? I would have thought that it would be more productive to use resources to tackle that issue - which is the reason why there are few hen harriers left in England.
 
Agree with Amarillo, the issue isn't the EO, but yet again the human race interferring with the balance of nature. The Owls do what comes natural to them. We on the other hand want to eradicant anything which affects our profit margin.
 
In terms of the adults or young being birds that could be classed as British birds, they would either have to be vagrants that have arrived and chosen to breed, much as the Little Bitterns did at Potteric Carr, or the Bee-eaters at Bishop Middleham. This is very unlikely, although potentially one of the birds is a vagrant - still probably unlikely.

The only other way is they become a category C bird, and numbers establish to the point of being self-supporting as a population, e.g. Golden Pheasant or Ring-necked Parakeet. The EO's are probably at the same stage as species such as Monk Parakeet - the numbers are not there yet.

If left they would become a Golden Pheasant, or Ring-necked Parakeet, (at the point the BOURC formally acknowledges the fact), and who knows in time they would be accepted by us all much as Little Owl and Red-legged Partridge are.

Ironically the numbers are probably now higher than Lady A's Pheasant, which of course sits in a category of her own.

As for their effect on resident bird populations this would need to be assessed, and if a problem, a Ruddy Duck type cull would then need to happen. I was told at the site they were mainly taking pheasants and rabbits, but one Hen Harrier over the years may be one too many.

My preference would be to see them prosper. Like someone said ignorant gamekeepers are much more of a threat to HH. It is a slight irony that the numbers are not sufficient to instate the bird on to category C, but sufficient that a cull must happen now!
 
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pe'rigin said:
Agree with Amarillo, the issue isn't the EO, but yet again the human race interferring with the balance of nature. The Owls do what comes natural to them. We on the other hand want to eradicant anything which affects our profit margin.
Click to expand...

Surely the issue here is that the human race interfered by introducing the owls.
 
With regard to the Eagle Owls taking Hen Harriers I have been told by more than one person that they took two Hen Harriers last year and have taken one so far this year.

However that information comes from "ordinary" birdwatchers and I've not heard it confirmed by any wardens etc. At the moment I'm taking it as unconfirmed that they've taken any Hen Harriers (it could be just another case of chinese whispers).

I was told by the warden that so far 2007 has been the best ever season for the Hen Harriers, so the successful breeding of Eagle Owls doesn't seem to be having any negative impact yet (the breeding season isn't over!).
 
Thanks Paul. I'm still awaiting feedback from the hen harrier project at Bowland about possible predation but without going into detail I certainly doubt this year's kill.

Whilst hen harriers do appear to be having a decent season (i.e. what should be the norm) in Bowland I can assure you the situation across the rest of northern England is just the opposite and likely to be one of the worst ever recorded. The evidence that persecution is responsible for almost every nest failure is overwhelming and sickening.

I have asked for permission to publish just what losses have been incurred this year but in the meantime let's hope we can all focus on the real culprits for hen harrier deaths.


PaulD said:
With regard to the Eagle Owls taking Hen Harriers I have been told by more than one person that they took two Hen Harriers last year and have taken one so far this year.

However that information comes from "ordinary" birdwatchers and I've not heard it confirmed by any wardens etc. At the moment I'm taking it as unconfirmed that they've taken any Hen Harriers (it could be just another case of chinese whispers).

I was told by the warden that so far 2007 has been the best ever season for the Hen Harriers, so the successful breeding of Eagle Owls doesn't seem to be having any negative impact yet (the breeding season isn't over!).
Click to expand...
 
Morning Brian,

Yes, your right, but we don't know where these Owls came from, we can only guess. As I wrote, we do interfer with the balance of nature for whatever reason, good or bad. In all probability these birds will be shot sometime in the future, the same fate awaits the remaining Hen Harriers, which is a UK resident bird. Our northern moors should be fully populated by these Harriers.

If anybody saw the footage of them on Springwatch last and explain why we are exterminating these magnificent birds. The same with the Owls, they're here, let's just leave them alone.
 
Martin Thomas said:
Thanks Paul. I'm still awaiting feedback from the hen harrier project at Bowland about possible predation but without going into detail I certainly doubt this year's kill.

Whilst hen harriers do appear to be having a decent season (i.e. what should be the norm) in Bowland I can assure you the situation across the rest of northern England is just the opposite and likely to be one of the worst ever recorded. The evidence that persecution is responsible for almost every nest failure is overwhelming and sickening.

I have asked for permission to publish just what losses have been incurred this year but in the meantime let's hope we can all focus on the real culprits for hen harrier deaths.
Click to expand...

Thanks Martin. It would be nice to have some solid facts. It's clear that Eagle Owls are high-profile, emotive birds and everyone seems to be in danger of getting into entrenched positions based on rumour and hearsay, so I hope you can get permission to publish something.
 
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