Mr Grill's Coucal ... but which Mr Grill? (1 Viewer)

I´m a bit puzzled, I simply cannot figure out the logic on this one, a result of the (my) latest post in the thread In search of elusive type specimens ... (in the Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature Forum) ... sigh! Talk about making a rod for ones own back.

Whatever; this time we´re looking at ...

grillii as in:
• (African) Black (-breasted/-chested) Coucal Centropus grillii HARTLAUB 1861 (here) as "Centropus Grillii":

Wir benennen dieselbe zu Ehren des durch eine sehr gute Arbeit um die Zoologie Südafrica's wohlverdienten Schweden J. W. Grill.

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Nothing strange, at this point ... according to today's HBW Alive Key this eponym commemorates:

grillii
Johan Wilhelm Grill (1815-1864) Swedish zoologist (Centropus).

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A claim that I don´t see any reason to question what-so-ever (at least not this far, without digging further into it ... even if I, at this point, is less inclined to call him primarily a "zoologist") ... but, that´s not the case here (not this far), as of now I´m simply trying to find the proper guy (and bird/s), behind this eponym.

At this point I´m more puzzled/intrigued by the following question:

Why would the (invalid) generic name Grillia ROBERTS 1922 (here, p.220, no dedication) be aimed at a different person?

Compare with the entry in today's Key [my blue]:

Grillia
(syn. Centropus Ϯ African Black Coucal C. grillii) Specific name Centropus grillii Hartlaub, 1861. According to Conisbee 1957, the genus is named for Claes Grill, an eighteenth century Swedish ironmaster who had a private zoological museum (?= Claes Grill (1705-1767) Swedish merchant, Director of the Swedish East India Company, who had a collection of Surinam animals preserved in alcohol) (cf. Adolf Ulrik Grill 1752-1797); "Grillia gen. nov., type Centropus grilli Hartlaub: size smallest; colour, entirely black on the underparts of the body. This genus comes nearest to Corydonyx Vieillot, type Centropus toulou, but differs therefrom in its shorter, more arched bill, longer wings and shorter tail" (A. Roberts 1922) (see Megacentropus).

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Why would Austin Roberts intend the generic name for another guy than Hartlaub?

And; why would Conisbee believe/claim so (in 1957)? And, even so, in what publication? There´s no "Conisbee, 1957" in the List of References for the HBW Alive Key? I assume we are talking about the British zoologist Lewis Ralph Conisbee (1897-1991,) but still; in which of his works?

Anyone who does understand?

Grateful for all the help I can get!

Björn
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The Helm Dictionary cites -

Conisbee, L. R. 1957. Index generum avium, 1901–1950: names proposed for genera and subgenera of recent birds during the first half of the twentieth century. MS (Nat. Hist. Mus., Tring).

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...But I would indeed expect that Roberts formed the generic name from the name of the designated type species.

Thanks Laurent! Lazy me, I´ve got the the "Helm Dictionary" (2010) in my book-shelf. Sorry.

Still it would be interesting to know why James seems to prefer Conisbee's view prior to the (unexpressed respectively expressed) views of Roberts and Hartlaub ... ?

Calalp said:

Still it would be interesting to know why James seems to prefer Conisbee's view prior to the (unexpressed respectively expressed) views of Roberts and Hartlaub ... ?

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Not sure he prefers it. ("Specific name Centropus grillii Hartlaub, 1861." is the first indication given in the Key.)

PS - Would the "sehr gute Arbeit um die Zoologie Südafrica's" referred to by Hartlaub be [this] ?

Key entries generally follow a plan; firstly the "preferred" etymology (here, "Specific name Centropus grillii Hartlaub, 1861."), then any other suggested etymologies (false or otherwise, included only for the sake of interest) (here, "According to Conisbee 1957..."), then finally a quotation from the OD, and, if not there provided, a reference to the type (usually from Peters Check-list). I don't know how Conisbee 1957 MS came to be deleted from the list of references (maybe it got caught up in the removal of Conisbee 1953, A list of the names proposed for the genera and subgenera of recent mammals ... 1904 to the end of 1951, when the references were transferred over to the Key?)

l_raty said:

Not sure he prefers it. ("Specific name Centropus grillii Hartlaub, 1861." is the first indication given in the Key.)

PS - Would the "sehr gute Arbeit um die Zoologie Südafrica's" referred to by Hartlaub be [this] ?

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Fair enough, once again a bit clumsier than I hoped for. Sorry James, no offence intended.

And yes, Laurent, sort of, at least it could be part of the gute Arbeit (Good job) done ...

To me (following my notes); Johan Wilhelm Grill (1815-1864), better known as a patron of science, was a wealthy guy with a great interest in Natural History and antiquity research (he, as well, had a large private Collection, also of live birds and animals), etc., etc., ... Initiator to print, and Editor of, the book: F. Victorins resa i Kaplandet åren 1853-1855. Jagt- och naturbilder ur de aflidne unge naurforskarens bref och dagböcker (1863), a book compiled from the Diaries and letters, by the more well-known naturalist Johan Victorin (who died in South Africa 1855) [In English: J. F. Victorin's Travels in the Cape the years 1853-1855: hunting and nature pictures from the late young naturalist's letters and diaries, Cape Town, 1968].

Johan Wilhelm Grill was the one who took care of Victorin's many specimens after his unfortunate death. If this makes also Grill worthy of the title " zoologist" ... well, that´s a matter of opinion. He could have been. Like I said; I´m only at the very beginning on this guy. But it would be nice to understand ... exactly which Mr Grill I should look for.

The Paper you linked to, in Kungl. Svenska vetenskapsakademiens handlingar (1858), is most likely an earlier, shorter, Scientifically relevant, concentrated version/form of the book above. As I said; I haven't really dug into it yet.

I simply wanted to make sure I was on the right path ...
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James Jobling said:

Key entries generally follow a plan; firstly the "preferred" etymology (here, "Specific name Centropus grillii Hartlaub, 1861."), then any other suggested etymologies (false or otherwise, included only for the sake of interest) (here, "According to Conisbee 1957..."), then finally a quotation from the OD, and, if not there provided, a reference to the type (usually from Peters Check-list). ...

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I have a hard time understanding how the inclusion of Conisbee 1957 whould be of interest, in the Key entry for Grillia, to anyone (except maybe for Donald Trump et al), when he is clearly erroneous ... or, to say the least, not making sence.

In my mind there´s little/no doubt it´s aimed at C. grillii HARTLAUB 1861 [i.e. Johan Wilhelm Grill (1815-1864)].

Claes Grill (1705–1767) is mostly known for saving the Swedish currency in 1747 (also as Director of the Swedish East India Company, from 1753). His Son Adolph Ulric Grill (1752–94/97?) is the guy who´s mostly known for his vast zoological collection (at Söderfors), later one of the basis for the collection at the (Royal) Natural History Museum in Stockholm. The Grill Family is fairly well known, as many Noble families, with names and interests intertwined (in quite a mess, if not carefully looked at ... which I, as noted, haven´t done yet ) ...

To me such inclusions only makes the Key look a bit shaky. For example; it made me start this awkward and totally unwarranted thread, for no real good reason.

Like I wrote yesterday; no offence intended, James! I simply adore the Key. I only want it as Crystal clear as it can be.

Björn