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New Swarovski binoculars soon (1 Viewer)

dalat said:
Hi,
a German shop has them on its website:
http://www.frankonia.de/shop/EL_8,5x42/_/bid/256419/cpage/0/tf/square/brandid/157/productdetail.html

New EL 8,5x42 and 10x42. They talk about "Field-Flatter" lenses and flourite HD lenses, longer exit pupille distance than the old EL and a FOV of 133m/1000m with cost of 2150€ (8,5x42).
Click to expand...

Canon has been using "flat field" doublets in their IS binoculars for years. For 3000.00 bucks you would think Swarovski could have thrown IS into the mix too!

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=744

It's price is about 10% of what the new Swarovski binocular costs!

Bob
 
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dalat said:
Hi,
a German shop has them on its website:
http://www.frankonia.de/shop/EL_8,5x42/_/bid/256419/cpage/0/tf/square/brandid/157/productdetail.html

New EL 8,5x42 and 10x42. They talk about "Field-Flatter" lenses and flourite HD lenses, longer exit pupille distance than the old EL and a FOV of 133m/1000m with cost of 2150€ (8,5x42).
Click to expand...

The photo they are currently showing on that thread is still of the "old" ELs. The new ones look a little different. I expect they will update the photo soon though.
 
Hi,
the main website of the shop still works, but they removed the new ELs. I guess they were showing them too early...
Florian
 
captain vallo said:
Perhaps they will have a dial for the type of bird and they will automatically locate and fix on it.

But even if not, I am sure they will be just as expensive as all the new top of range competition.

And the possibly real or perceived .001% advantage will have many upgrading or kicking themselves cause they just bought a pair of the soon to be rubbish older models.
Click to expand...

Capn' Vallo,

Aye! Aye! Sir, I agree with your statement above, and recently wrote something very similar on Cloudy Days binoculars forum on a thread asking for recommendations on the best 8x mid-priced roof from a user's short list. I didn't like any of the binoculars on his list (all had relatively narrowish fields of view and mediocre edge performance).

However, the mid-priced roof line up keeps improving, as the Chinese learn the optics game, so I recommended he either buy a more expensive Japanese roof or a lower priced but optically better porro or wait it out until something better comes along in his price range.

Already, Pentax and Vortex are offering mid-priced roofs with a wider FOV (and the Pentax HRc offers silver coated prisms for $20 more than the HRII). I think there's hope for mid-priced roofs.

However, with a price tag of 3K+ USD expected on the new Swaros, I think you'd better add a few more zeros before the decimal point in terms of its advantage, because I doubt if will be 3X better than the $1,000+ top of the line roofs already offered by Swaro and other manufacturers.

The price of the new Swaros in the US may actually be lower (but still ridiculous if what that reviewer said is true), because prices for binoculars overall seem to be lower in the US than Europe even for bins made in Europe! This might be due to the greater number of sales in the US?

I'm probably way out of synch with BF members who might be salivating for the "latest and greatest" Swaro roof yet, because I would prefer to see Swaro update its Habicht porro line.

The design and coatings are outdated, and the Plossl EPs give too narrow a FOV. I'd like to see new porros with better ergonomics and optics that will give the Nikon SE line some competition (w/out the dreaded blackouts please!).

But I'm not holding my breath.

Brock
 
brocknroller said:
I would prefer to see Swaro update its Habicht porro line. The design and coatings are outdated, and the Plossl EPs give too narrow a FOV. I'd like to see new porros with better ergonomics and optics that will give the Nikon SE line some competition (w/out the dreaded blackouts please!).
Click to expand...
I would buy two of these (8x30) without hesitation.
 
brocknroller said:
I'm probably way out of synch with BF members who might be salivating for the "latest and greatest" Swaro roof yet, because I would prefer to see Swaro update its Habicht porro line.

The design and coatings are outdated, and the Plossl EPs give too narrow a FOV.
Click to expand...

Brock,

Six element Erfles in the Habicht 8x30/10x40. Kellner in the 7x42. Coatings are current Swarotop and Swarodur.

Henry
 
I am sure most of us here know of 'ever diminishing returns' and that in almost all areas of everything, as you pay more the relative improvements become less noticable.
I find it incredible and dissapointing that my Swaro EL's images have some yellow tints in some circumstances, and the Leica BR's have the worst focussing i have ever used.
i have owned (and still do) many levels of bins, and i still marvel at the performance/price ratio, but saying that, I am still looking to replace my Helios 8x30 glove box bins with a superior set ... for no other reason other than I want the best I can afford..
I have just bought and returned a pair of Vortex furys because of the reviews on this forum, which for £200 were great, but had focus noise fault. But they were not that much better than my £50 helios.
It is now likely that I will buy the Zeiss victory FL 8x30, before the proposed price hike, but they only do everything just a little bit better than bins half the price.... but one thing is for sure, they do do everthing just a little better.
 
henry link said:
Brock,

Six element Erfles in the Habicht 8x30/10x40. Kellner in the 7x42. Coatings are current Swarotop and Swarodur.

Henry
Click to expand...

Henry,

Thanks, Henry. Yes, the 8x30s and 10x40s have a wider FOV. From what I've read in several reviews or comments on forums (almost bought the 8x30 model, but got outbid on eBay in the last .05 seconds), the SEs are sharper, brighter, have better edges and better ergonomics, and longer ER (at least compared to the WF models).

They also have stiff focusers, but some modern design WP porros have the same problem, which is apparently a side effect of the WPing. My Minolta WP FP bins had smooth focusing, but they are not submersible.

Here are some comments on BF (including a post by you) comparing the SEs and Habicht porros.
http://www.birdforum.net/archive/index.php/t-30398.html

Since the Habichts have been around a long time, the samples reviewed in other forums may have been older models with lesser quality coatings. The earlier Habicht porros had a yellow cast. My Swift 804 MC and CZJ 8x50 Octarem have a greenish cast, but it's only noticeable in dim light.

I liked the ergonomics on the earlier Habichts, which had a curved body and shallow thumb supports underneath. Not sure how many models they made then, I've only seen the 7x50s, which have a narrow FOV like the newer version.

I still can't figure out why they put leatherette armoring on a WP binocular or at least offered it as an option. Does the leatherette have some type of waterproofing?

Brock
 
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captain vallo said:
... I am still looking to replace my Helios 8x30 glove box bins with a superior set ... for no other reason other than I want the best I can afford..
I have just bought and returned a pair of Vortex furys because of the reviews on this forum, which for £200 were great, but had focus noise fault. But they were not that much better than my £50 helios.
It is now likely that I will buy the Zeiss victory FL 8x30, before the proposed price hike, but they only do everything just a little bit better than bins half the price.... but one thing is for sure, they do do everthing just a little better.
Click to expand...

Considering the cost of the Zeiss FLs, I certainly hope you have a good lock on your glove box and a car alarm!

Brock
 
captain vallo said:
I find it incredible and dissapointing that my Swaro EL's images have some yellow tints in some circumstances, and the Leica BR's have the worst focussing i have ever used.
Click to expand...

I find it incredible that you bought them, and that you apparently hadn't returned them to Leica for correction.
Why would you put up with that?

The color in the Swaro's may not be fixable, I don't know, but the focusing of the Leica is.

added:
It now occurs to me after re-reading your statement that you might not have purchased the Leicas and that you were judging Leica BRs (Ultravids) in general. You've sampled a lot of them no doubt to make your assertion. Funny though, I have a pair of Ultravids that focus smoothly and quickly. I know of a few others that have no issue with the Leica's focusing as well. Now I, like others, have read of the "ratchety" focus issue, but haven't encountered it myself. Seemingly this isn't a universal problem, so keeping one's comments regarding a mechanical issue like this should probably be kept in the context of a specific pair, or two.
 
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brocknroller said:
I liked the ergonomics on the earlier Habichts, which had a curved body and shallow thumb supports underneath. Not sure how many models they made then, I've only seen the 7x50s, which have a narrow FOV like the newer version.

I still can't figure out why they put leatherette armoring on a WP binocular or at least offered it as an option. Does the leatherette have some type of waterproofing?

Brock
Click to expand...

Brock,

Those 7x50s were Habicht SLs. When I first encountered Swarovski binoculars about 1984 they had two Porro series: the Habichts, including the 3 models still still available plus many more models including monocular versions and the Habicht SLs which were new and top of the line. The SLs were available in 7x42, 7x50, 8x56, 10x40 and 10x50. They certainly looked the business, but really were quite conservative optically with cemented doublet objectives, Kellner (7x42, 7x50, 8x56) and Erfle eyepieces. Not much different from the Habicht optics except that the SL prism clusters were cemented and they used "Swarotop" coating instead of the earlier 2-layer (and very yellow) "Transmax" still used then in the Habichts.

Over the next ten years I bought many Swarovski binoculars from both series. My favorite was the Habicht 8x30W GA, but I was never able to get one without too much yellow in the image. I pestered the folks in Rhode Island about the color bias for years, but hunters liked it and Swarovski mainly catered to hunters then, so it stayed. My last effort to buy a color neutral 8x30 was about 1997 whwn I heard that all the Swaro bins had been changed to "Swarotop". The image was still too yellow for me (Swarotop used to be more yellow) and besides the 8x32 SE had come out and I considered it to be optically superior to the Habicht, so I lost interest after that.

As for the pebble finish on the non-armored Habichts. Whatever it's made of it appears to be nearly indestructible, certainly waterproof. My old 8x30s from about 1990 have lots of paint missing from the edges of the metal parts, but no sign of wear on the "leatherette".

Henry
 
henry link said:
Brock,

Those 7x50s were Habicht SLs. When I first encountered Swarovski binoculars about 1984 they had two Porro series: the Habichts, including the 3 models still still available plus many more models including monocular versions and the Habicht SLs which were new and top of the line. The SLs were available in 7x42, 7x50, 8x56, 10x40 and 10x50. They certainly looked the business, but really were quite conservative optically with cemented doublet objectives, Kellner (7x42, 7x50, 8x56) and Erfle eyepieces. Not much different from the Habicht optics except that the SL prism clusters were cemented and they used "Swarotop" coating instead of the earlier 2-layer (and very yellow) "Transmax" still used then in the Habichts.

Over the next ten years I bought many Swarovski binoculars from both series. My favorite was the Habicht 8x30W GA, but I was never able to get one without too much yellow in the image. I pestered the folks in Rhode Island about the color bias for years, but hunters liked it and Swarovski mainly catered to hunters then, so it stayed. My last effort to buy a color neutral 8x30 was about 1997 whwn I heard that all the Swaro bins had been changed to "Swarotop". The image was still too yellow for me (Swarotop used to be more yellow) and besides the 8x32 SE had come out and I considered it to be optically superior to the Habicht, so I lost interest after that.

As for the pebble finish on the non-armored Habichts. Whatever it's made of it appears to be nearly indestructible, certainly waterproof. My old 8x30s from about 1990 have lots of paint missing from the edges of the metal parts, but no sign of wear on the "leatherette".

Henry
Click to expand...

I hadn't realized the Habicht SL had so many models. I wonder why they weren't a "hit" for Swaro? You said they updated the coatings. Did the SLs still have a yellow tint? If so, could you see the tint in bright sunlight or only when it's overcast or dim in the winter?

It sounds like the old-fashioned-style Habichts are in need of a modern makeover, not just the coatings. However, with roofs being the rage for both hunting and birding, that seems unlikely. It makes me wonder why Swaro even keeps making these.

There's a post on the BF thread below by Clay Taylor, who says that few dealers carry the Habichts.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=1178909

When I mentioned the narrow FOV EPs in the Habicht series earlier, I was probably thinking of Optolyth Alpin, another European porro series that has been around for some time. Except for the 12x50s, which have a 4.9* FOV, and the 10x40, which has a 5.8* FOV, the FOV of the other models are narrowish. I think they used to make an 8x30 Alpin with a 7.5*? FOV, but it's no longer listed.

Even the 8x40, a configuration that usually has at least a moderately wide FOV in most brand porros, is only 6.3*, a FOV I would expect to find in a mid-priced Chinese-made roof, costing $200-$300, but not in a German-made porro costing $699.

Here are the rest of the configurations in the series:
http://www.deutscheoptik.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=445&osCsid=8b6886206724751a8a6dc33712ad238f

The rubber armoring reminds me of the Habichts. And it was the “Cerulin-Plus” multi-coatings that I read were not as good as touted ("“Cerulin-Plus” multi-coating for unsurpassed resolution and brightness"), though I can't find the thread where that was mentioned.

(found it): http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=75027

I wrote the owner of Deutsch Optik a few years ago when these "new" old models came out, and he said that the previous newer models, which had a wider FOV and more modern looking styling and armoring, were not as good optically as the older ones. So when Optolyth came under new owernship, he asked the new owner to bring back the older series, which he did.

So that's how these older looking bins were resurrected. I don't know how successful they've sold in Europe, but they are fairly obscure in the U.S. Deutsch Optik may be the exclusive dealer.

Brock
 
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brocknroller said:
I hadn't realized the Habicht SL had so many models. I wonder why they weren't a "hit" for Swaro? You said they updated the coatings. Did the SLs still have a yellow tint? If so, could you see the tint in bright sunlight or only when it's overcast or dim in the winter?

It sounds like the old-fashioned-style Habichts are in need of a modern makeover, not just the coatings. However, with roofs being the rage for both hunting and birding, that seems unlikely. It makes me wonder why Swaro even keeps making these.

There's a post on the BF thread below by Clay Taylor, who says that few dealers carry the Habichts.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=1178909

When I mentioned the narrow FOV EPs in the Habicht series earlier, I was probably thinking of Optolyth Alpin, another European porro series that has been around for some time. Except for the 10x40 and 12x50s, which have a 5.8* and 4.9* FOV respectively, the other models are narrowish.

Even the 8x40, a configuration that usually has at least a moderately wide FOV in most brand porros, is only 6.3*, a FOV I would expect to find in a mid-priced Chinese-made roof, costing $200-$300, but not in a German-made porro costing $699.

While I don't see it listed now, I think they had an 8x30 model too, which also had a moderately wide FOV.

Here are the rest of the configurations in the series:
http://www.deutscheoptik.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=445&osCsid=8b6886206724751a8a6dc33712ad238f

The rubber armoring reminds me of the Habichts. And it was the “Cerulin-Plus” multi-coatings that I read were not as good as touted ("“Cerulin-Plus” multi-coating for unsurpassed resolution and brightness"), though I can't find the thread where that was mentioned.

So little info is available on these bins that even if the FOV were wider, I'd be reluctant to buy.

I wrote the owner of Deutsch Optik a few years ago when these "new" old models came out, and he said that the previous "New Generation" models, which had a wider FOV and more modern looking styling and armoring, were not as good optically as the older ones. So when Optolyth came under new owernship, he asked the new owner to bring back the older series, which he did.

So that's how these older looking bins were resurrected. I don't know how successfully they've sold in Europe, but these porros are fairly obscure in the U.S. Deutsch Optik might be the exclusive dealer.

Brock
Click to expand...

Hi Brock,

Thanks for the link. Brought back some memories of the years I owned Optolyth Alpins; in 1982 I purchased the 7x42 model, which was very lightweight and very easy to use. The FOV was better than on my old Russian 7x50 porro's, but since the Alpins were the second pair of binoculars I purchased since I started birding I had very little experience of bad/good FOV at the time.

Anyway, the Alpins had ONE major flaw: the housing was to thin ( that's what made them lightweight, of course) and they fogged up the very first time I used them in light rain, merely drizzle. It was so dreadful I couldn't see a thing through them anymore. Brought them back, got a new pair ( I only had them 3 days!) and quickly learned to put them under my coat when out in the drizzle or rain.
All went well until I foolishly left them on the plane on my way to Africa. Ordered new ones, Alpin 7x50 this time, very lightweight ( 625 grams if I remember correctly) with same thin housing. Used them a year in Africa, in arid climate, with no problems. Once back in Holland, they succumbed to the wet conditions very first outing and fogged up as badly as my first pair of 7x42 had. No use drying them, after weeks a permanent layer of foul mist remained on the inner glass surfaces.
It is my theory that the warmth of my hands holding the binoculars firmly, in connection with the thin housing, caused the fogging inside.

I would like to warn people who are thinking of getting the 'old style' Optolyth Alpins that these porro's can not be used in wet and cold weather, but are very nice in dry circumstances. The supplied rainguard in the ad suggests that it is OK to use them in all weather, but you'd better not!
The nitrogen-filled versions probably are OK in this respect, though I've no experience with these.

Regards, Ronald
 
Kevin Conville said:
I find it incredible that you bought them, and that you
The color in the Swaro's may not be fixable, I don't know, but the focusing of the Leica is.

added:
It now occurs to me after re-reading your statement that you might not have purchased the Leicas and that you were judging Leica BRs (Ultravids) in general. You've sampled a lot of them no doubt to make your assertion. Funny though, I have a pair of Ultravids that focus smoothly and quickly. I know of a few others that have no issue with the Leica's focusing as well. Now I, like others, have read of the "ratchety" focus issue, but haven't encountered it myself. Seemingly this isn't a universal problem, so keeping one's comments regarding a mechanical issue like this should probably be kept in the context of a specific pair, or two.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that I shouldn't state that the pair of Leica BR's I owned had an issue with the focus wheel. The point I was making is that despite the vastly inflated price of the top bins they can still either have generic imperfections and possibly worse in my mind occasional build quality issues.

As a rule top end 'stuff' should be designed and built for the purpose, along with the very best of materials and quality control and built to the tightest possible tolerances ... then the costs are calculated. Whilst low end 'stuff' is as a rule designed to a price with cost savings made in materials and quality control and wider manufacturing tolerances.

When I buy my cheaper items, I know that I have to do my own quality control, I dont expect it on the Leica BR's

The issue with the Swarovski is generic issue and a compromise of design, whilst the fault with the returned Leica's may very well have been a one off, but as the very experienced salesman advised me that it was a recurring issue which had been addressed in the HD's, leads me to think that its a design weakness.

When Swaro realised they had made an error with the slow focus of the earlier EL's they fixed it.
 
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