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"Swarovski 8.5x42 SV" or "Zeiss 8x42 HT" ? (1 Viewer)

spiralcoil

Well-known member
It must not be a simple question...:
"Swarovski 8.5x42 SV or Zeiss 8x42 HT ?"

A recent test of a 8.5x42 SV revealed that the very unnatural feeling in looking through the bino is really a true statement, that special effect of "rolling or frame by frame bulging" when move vertically up-down, or side-to-side are absolutely obvious. Whether it bothers or "not bother" some users is only a "personal" statement depends on how much one attached to Swarovski, but the facts are there - SV type of design is not natural to the human eyes.

If the SV type of optical design is so good, Leica and Zeiss would have made it. Now I understand further there are good reasons why they do not.

However, I wonder how do those have used the new Zeiss 8x42 HT compared it to the SV? If a top level 8x42 is desired, is it a worthy one to get into? ;)
 
You might also ask about Swarovski's 8x42 SLC HD and compare it to the Leica and Zeiss 8x42s. The SLC has more generous eye relief (18.5mm vs. 16mm) and sufficient optical distortion to prevent the rolling ball illusion.
 
Spiralcoil,
If you want to have to comparable binoculars the choice in my opinion is between the 8x42 Zeiss Victory HT and the Swarovski SLC-HD see some details below:
Weight: HT= 837 g, SLC-HD=847 g
FOV for both 136m/1000m
Close focus (CF): HT=1,6 m, SLC-HD=1,8m
Percentage sharp of FOV: HT=67%=91m/1000m, SLC-HD=88%=120m/1000m
Focussing speed: HT=1,75 rev from CF to infinity, SLC-HD =2 rev.
Eye relief: HT=16 mm, SLC-HD=18,5mm
Light transmission: HT=92,3% at 500 nm and 95,2% at 550 nm; SLC-HD=89% at 500 nm and 92% at 550nm
Observable difference in brightness by eye is very small and for some observers not detectable.
Color reproduction: HT=very good, SLC-HD= very good
Handling comfort is excellent for both binoculars
The SLC-HD is somewhat shorter than the HT.
The Leica Ultravid 8x42HD is lighter (761g) has a smaller FOV (130m/1000m), has a much lower light transmission of 83-86% which yields a lower image brightness and has an eyerelief of 15,5mm. The bajonet fitting of the eyecups of the Ultravid is not comfortable to use if one wants to remove the eyecups. That applies certainly to persons who do not have strong hand muscles.
I hope this will help you when you start comparing with your own eyes.
Gijs
 
I think some individuals form illogical attachments to a Marque and for another to suggest there might be a better alternative borders on heresy, Swarovski is one Marque which seems to create this kind of following.

The Zeiss HT ploughs a different furrow, but is close to as good as it gets right now.
 
FWIW, there is a detailed comparison of the Swarovski 8.5x42 SV, Swarovski 8x42 SLC HD, and Zeiss 8x42 HT on the thread "Here are the new Victorys: Victory HT".

You can find this March, 2013, summary of facts and opinions by six birders at post #1372 on page 55.

Mike
 
FWIW, there is a detailed comparison of the Swarovski 8.5x42 SV, Swarovski 8x42 SLC HD, and Zeiss 8x42 HT on the thread "Here are the new Victorys: Victory HT".

You can find this March, 2013, summary of facts and opinions by six birders at post #1372 on page 55.

Mike

Thank you for the helpful info...
 
It must not be a simple question...:
"Swarovski 8.5x42 SV or Zeiss 8x42 HT ?"

A recent test of a 8.5x42 SV revealed that the very unnatural feeling in looking through the bino is really a true statement, that special effect of "rolling or frame by frame bulging" when move vertically up-down, or side-to-side are absolutely obvious. Whether it bothers or "not bother" some users is only a "personal" statement depends on how much one attached to Swarovski, but the facts are there - SV type of design is not natural to the human eyes.

It is quite natural to my eyes. Or rather, to my brain, since it is our perception that matters.

If the SV type of optical design is so good, Leica and Zeiss would have made it. Now I understand further there are good reasons why they do not.

However, I wonder how do those have used the new Zeiss 8x42 HT compared it to the SV? If a top level 8x42 is desired, is it a worthy one to get into? ;)

I think you should compare them for yourself and draw your own conclusion, as that is all that matters. I find myself disagreeing with others, and I am sure you are not different.
 
It must not be a simple question...:
"Swarovski 8.5x42 SV or Zeiss 8x42 HT ?"

A recent test of a 8.5x42 SV revealed that the very unnatural feeling in looking through the bino is really a true statement, that special effect of "rolling or frame by frame bulging" when move vertically up-down, or side-to-side are absolutely obvious. Whether it bothers or "not bother" some users is only a "personal" statement depends on how much one attached to Swarovski, but the facts are there - SV type of design is not natural to the human eyes.

If the SV type of optical design is so good, Leica and Zeiss would have made it. Now I understand further there are good reasons why they do not.

However, I wonder how do those have used the new Zeiss 8x42 HT compared it to the SV? If a top level 8x42 is desired, is it a worthy one to get into? ;)

spiralcoil,

Leica and Zeiss are not allowed to make ELs, SV or WBs, because they would get threatened with a lawsuit the way Nikon was forced to "cease and desist" manufacturing the original open bridge design and redesign the EDG as an "open hinge" design. If I were Nikon, I would have patented the EDG II body design, and then turned around and sued Swarovski, because their SLC-HD body design is too similar to the EDG II's "open hinge" design.

Obviously, Swarovski doesn't care about the lesser known gods, who keep pumping out open bridge designs by the barge full from China, but I'm sure they'd go after the other Big Three if they dared copy the EL.

It will be interesting to see if the Perger prisms in the new Leica Rangefinders make it different enough to avoid litigation for infringement on Swarovski's EL even though it uses an open bridge design. Apparently, Leica has already run into legal issues with their new riflescopes.

I might have already said this to you, but most people adapt to the "rolling ball" in the SV EL. So if you otherwise like the design and view, and got deep enough pockets to afford one, give yourself a couple weeks to adapt and the RB in the SV EL might go away completely.

Not everybody adjusts, though, no matter how much time they spend with low distortion bins. If that turns out to be the case, you can join our 12-step program.

Hi, I'm Brock, and I'm a "rollingballer". ;)

<B>
 
Last edited:
spiralcoil,

Leica and Zeiss are not allowed to make ELs, SV or WBs, because they would get threatened with a lawsuit the way Nikon was forced to "cease and desist" manufacturing the original open bridge design and redesign the EDG as an "open hinge" design. If I were Nikon, I would have patented the EDG II body design, and then turned around and sued Swarovski, because their SLC-HD body design is too similar to the EDG II's "open hinge" design.

Obviously, Swarovski doesn't care about the lesser known gods, who keep pumping out open bridge designs by the barge full from China, but I'm sure they'd go after the other Big Three if they dared copy the EL.

It will be interesting to see if the Perger prisms in the new Leica Rangefinders make it different enough to avoid litigation for infringement on Swarovski's EL even though it uses an open bridge design. Apparently, Leica has already run into legal issues with their new riflescopes.

I might have already said this to you, but most people adapt to the "rolling ball" in the SV EL. So if you otherwise like the design and view, and got deep enough pockets to afford one, give yourself a couple weeks to adapt and the RB in the SV EL might go away completely.

Not everybody adjusts, though, no matter how much time they spend with low distortion bins. If that turns out to be the case, you can join our 12-step program.

Hi, I'm Brock, and I'm a "rollingballer". ;)

<B>

Hi Brock

I don't notice CA unless I look for it so generally speaking I don't look for it in order that I don't get dissatisfied with bins through an aberration that doesn't normally grab my attention.

Can rolling ball be like this? I mean would it be possible for someone to use affected Swaros and be perfectly OK with the view while panning until some fateful day when they notice RB and thereafter can't live with the darn things?

Lee
 
Hi Brock

I don't notice CA unless I look for it so generally speaking I don't look for it in order that I don't get dissatisfied with bins through an aberration that doesn't normally grab my attention.

Can rolling ball be like this? I mean would it be possible for someone to use affected Swaros and be perfectly OK with the view while panning until some fateful day when they notice RB and thereafter can't live with the darn things?

Lee

Lee,

I remember Stephen Ingraham on BVD warning "Folks, don't try this at home" in regard to testing for CA since he made himself more sensitive to it by testing for it. Once he saw it, he could not keep from seeing it in every roof bin he tried.

With RB, however, it seems that either you adapt or you don't. Looking for it might make you more aware of it, but either it bothers you or it doesn't. Only two members have reported that RB "crept up on them". That is, at first it didn't bother them, but eventually it did and they couldn't tolerate it. One of those members was Dennis for whom RB went from a "non-issue" to a "deal killer".

But there was one other member for whom it took about two weeks to bother him. Perhaps he hadn't used it in environments where RB is most noticeable, for example, open space with a treeline in the background.

In any case, it seems pretty rare when that happens. It's much more common for it to go the other way, that is, people see it but eventually become less and less aware of it or it disappears completely. Mooreorless holds the record for quickest adaptation: 3 seconds. The slowest seems to be around two weeks.

One interesting trend that I suspected but wasn't able to confirm until Pier posted his observation on the SV EL, is that I always recommend that while going through the period of adjustment on the SV EL or Nikon Premier or Kowa Genesis or any other bin you see RB in, is to stop comparing the bin with others with higher distortion since it could delay the adaptation period.

Pier tried the SV EL, adapted to the RB or at least was able to tolerate it, but then didn't use it for a period while he tested other bins including the Zeiss HT, which has a fair amount of pincushion. When he went back to the SV EL months later, the RB returned! He eventually adjusted again, but it shows that "once adapted, always adapted" is not a given. If you had to go through a period of adjustment with the SV EL and you're away from the it for awhile, and then pick it up again, you might have to start from square one.

Unlike CA where it's best not to look for it, with RB, I recommend looking for it. If you can't induce it with panning, chances are very good that you are an immunie. If you can induce it, then you are susceptible and will have eventually seen it under the right conditions anyway, so you might as well see it during the store's return period.

Then it's a matter of giving yourself time to adjust by using the bin regularly. Most people adjust, so the odds are in your favor, but I suspect that many people who see RB in the SV EL while trying them in a store and find it objectionable, and haven't read up on RB, don't bother giving the bin a chance, but simply buy something else. The SV EL has many good features, so it's worth finding out if you can adapt if you otherwise like the bin.

While it's possible you could be one of those rare birds who doesn't see RB at first or who sees it but isn't bothered by it at first, but for whom it eventually becomes intolerable. However, if BF members' experiences are typical, it seems that scenario is pretty rare.

Brock
 
Lee,

I remember Stephen Ingraham on BVD warning "Folks, don't try this at home" in regard to testing for CA since he made himself more sensitive to it by testing for it. Once he saw it, he could not keep from seeing it in every roof bin he tried.

With RB, however, it seems that either you adapt or you don't. Looking for it might make you more aware of it, but either it bothers you or it doesn't. Only two members have reported that RB "crept up on them". That is, at first it didn't bother them, but eventually it did and they couldn't tolerate it. One of those members was Dennis for whom RB went from a "non-issue" to a "deal killer".

But there was one other member for whom it took about two weeks to bother him. Perhaps he hadn't used it in environments where RB is most noticeable, for example, open space with a treeline in the background.

In any case, it seems pretty rare when that happens. It's much more common for it to go the other way, that is, people see it but eventually become less and less aware of it or it disappears completely. Mooreorless holds the record for quickest adaptation: 3 seconds. The slowest seems to be around two weeks.

One interesting trend that I suspected but wasn't able to confirm until Pier posted his observation on the SV EL, is that I always recommend that while going through the period of adjustment on the SV EL or Nikon Premier or Kowa Genesis or any other bin you see RB in, is to stop comparing the bin with others with higher distortion since it could delay the adaptation period.

Pier tried the SV EL, adapted to the RB or at least was able to tolerate it, but then didn't use it for a period while he tested other bins including the Zeiss HT, which has a fair amount of pincushion. When he went back to the SV EL months later, the RB returned! He eventually adjusted again, but it shows that "once adapted, always adapted" is not a given. If you had to go through a period of adjustment with the SV EL and you're away from the it for awhile, and then pick it up again, you might have to start from square one.

Unlike CA where it's best not to look for it, with RB, I recommend looking for it. If you can't induce it with panning, chances are very good that you are an immunie. If you can induce it, then you are susceptible and will have eventually seen it under the right conditions anyway, so you might as well see it during the store's return period.

Then it's a matter of giving yourself time to adjust by using the bin regularly. Most people adjust, so the odds are in your favor, but I suspect that many people who see RB in the SV EL while trying them in a store and find it objectionable, and haven't read up on RB, don't bother giving the bin a chance, but simply buy something else. The SV EL has many good features, so it's worth finding out if you can adapt if you otherwise like the bin.

While it's possible you could be one of those rare birds who doesn't see RB at first or who sees it but isn't bothered by it at first, but for whom it eventually becomes intolerable. However, if BF members' experiences are typical, it seems that scenario is pretty rare.

Brock

Astonishing. Wrong. Silly.

Oh, and Brock evidently saw a Pennsylvania endangered species (Golden-winged Warbler) two weeks before it's due to arrive. God knows what he really saw. Goldfinch probably.

He's got colorful swallows "hovering" in February. Nope. He's got Kestrals flying through the woods chasing Mourning Doves. Nope. I don't know WHAT he's looking at. I live about 30 miles away from him, and I actually look at birds.

Silly.

Mark
 
Astonishing. Wrong. Silly.

Oh, and Brock evidently saw a Pennsylvania endangered species (Golden-winged Warbler) two weeks before it's due to arrive. God knows what he really saw. Goldfinch probably.

He's got colorful swallows "hovering" in February. Nope. He's got Kestrals flying through the woods chasing Mourning Doves. Nope. I don't know WHAT he's looking at. I live about 30 miles away from him, and I actually look at birds.

Silly.

Mark

I've seen Kestrels in the small woods behind my house in the last 2 weeks. And their territory also includes the farmers field behind that woods and the cemetery that adjoins it.

Bob
 
I read all this, but dont understand everthing.
Looking through a binocular, I am simply happy about doing so.

With all the different ones at hand, I try to put my finger on each´s advantages and disadvantages, but thats the job. For fun, I rather use my own, oersonal bins than any other, even if they are twice as expensive.
The weekend is around the corner, enjoy!
 
Astonishing. Wrong. Silly.

Oh, and Brock evidently saw a Pennsylvania endangered species (Golden-winged Warbler) two weeks before it's due to arrive. God knows what he really saw. Goldfinch probably.

He's got colorful swallows "hovering" in February. Nope. He's got Kestrals flying through the woods chasing Mourning Doves. Nope. I don't know WHAT he's looking at. I live about 30 miles away from him, and I actually look at birds.

Silly.

Mark

Really Mark.

You know very well that birds don't read the same rule books about their behaviour that we do.

By all means be cautious or even skeptical but unless you were there at the time, its not even sensible to outright deny a sighting.

We live in prime suburban Sparrowhawk environment and indeed these are our most frequently seen raptor but we do get Kestrels from time to time and they don't do the Kestrel-hovering-thing because it isn't that sort of habitat. If they are hungry and want some lunch they are going to have to do something un-Kestrel-like.

We have seen Sparrowhawks stoop like a Peregrine.

Birds don't always follow the rules Mark, but you know that really don't you?

Lee
 
Lee,

I remember Stephen Ingraham on BVD warning "Folks, don't try this at home" in regard to testing for CA since he made himself more sensitive to it by testing for it. Once he saw it, he could not keep from seeing it in every roof bin he tried.

With RB, however, it seems that either you adapt or you don't. Looking for it might make you more aware of it, but either it bothers you or it doesn't. Only two members have reported that RB "crept up on them". That is, at first it didn't bother them, but eventually it did and they couldn't tolerate it. One of those members was Dennis for whom RB went from a "non-issue" to a "deal killer".

But there was one other member for whom it took about two weeks to bother him. Perhaps he hadn't used it in environments where RB is most noticeable, for example, open space with a treeline in the background.

In any case, it seems pretty rare when that happens. It's much more common for it to go the other way, that is, people see it but eventually become less and less aware of it or it disappears completely. Mooreorless holds the record for quickest adaptation: 3 seconds. The slowest seems to be around two weeks.

One interesting trend that I suspected but wasn't able to confirm until Pier posted his observation on the SV EL, is that I always recommend that while going through the period of adjustment on the SV EL or Nikon Premier or Kowa Genesis or any other bin you see RB in, is to stop comparing the bin with others with higher distortion since it could delay the adaptation period.

Pier tried the SV EL, adapted to the RB or at least was able to tolerate it, but then didn't use it for a period while he tested other bins including the Zeiss HT, which has a fair amount of pincushion. When he went back to the SV EL months later, the RB returned! He eventually adjusted again, but it shows that "once adapted, always adapted" is not a given. If you had to go through a period of adjustment with the SV EL and you're away from the it for awhile, and then pick it up again, you might have to start from square one.

Unlike CA where it's best not to look for it, with RB, I recommend looking for it. If you can't induce it with panning, chances are very good that you are an immunie. If you can induce it, then you are susceptible and will have eventually seen it under the right conditions anyway, so you might as well see it during the store's return period.

Then it's a matter of giving yourself time to adjust by using the bin regularly. Most people adjust, so the odds are in your favor, but I suspect that many people who see RB in the SV EL while trying them in a store and find it objectionable, and haven't read up on RB, don't bother giving the bin a chance, but simply buy something else. The SV EL has many good features, so it's worth finding out if you can adapt if you otherwise like the bin.

While it's possible you could be one of those rare birds who doesn't see RB at first or who sees it but isn't bothered by it at first, but for whom it eventually becomes intolerable. However, if BF members' experiences are typical, it seems that scenario is pretty rare.

Brock

A nice succinct summation.
Thanks Brock
 
Really Mark.

You know very well that birds don't read the same rule books about their behaviour that we do.

By all means be cautious or even skeptical but unless you were there at the time, its not even sensible to outright deny a sighting.

We live in prime suburban Sparrowhawk environment and indeed these are our most frequently seen raptor but we do get Kestrels from time to time and they don't do the Kestrel-hovering-thing because it isn't that sort of habitat. If they are hungry and want some lunch they are going to have to do something un-Kestrel-like.

We have seen Sparrowhawks stoop like a Peregrine.

Birds don't always follow the rules Mark, but you know that really don't you?

Lee

No, birds don't always follow the rules, but they don't break them with the astonishing regularity that Brock seems to find either. ;)

Still switching effortlessly between FL and SV,

Mark
 
You know very well that birds don't read the same rule books about their behaviour that we do

Lee

Oh yes. I live in a large housing area. Lots of high multi-storey buildings and very few trees. But every morning I can watch the european goldfinch right by my window, thjis mornig there were three of them.:king:
 
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