Conquest where made? (1 Viewer)

fazalmajid · May 7, 2020

Companies like Apple have certainly shown you can get top quality made in China, if you are willing to spend on quality control. Nikon makes some of its top lenses like the 105/1.4E or the 500/5.6 PF in China. The difference is that they own and manage the factory in China themselves, it's not subcontracted to a third-party supplier that will inevitably cut corners after the contract is won, a phenomenon known as "quality fade" 9Just as they have a term for "good enough", chabuduo).

Switzerland recently imposed a minimum 50% value-added in CH threshold for watches to qualify for "Made in Switzerland". Perhaps at some point we need labelling standards like nutritional labels saying which parts were made where.

The Zeiss Victory Pockets are made in Japan, BTW, and they are outstanding.

dries1 · May 8, 2020

Phones are all Chinese, but at least I have a choice with glass, even if I have to pay more. If you have some older Swiss time pieces, hold onto them, providing the movements are made in house and not from swatch.

Andy W.

Sebzwo · May 8, 2020

Guess where the parts for watch movements and entire movements can be made these days?

Sea Gull (now we are at Birdforum) in China is one of the world's biggest if not the biggest manufacturer of watches and watch movements. Including for all those tiny parts that are needed to supply "brand movement manufacturing" elsewhere.

Troubador · May 9, 2020

42za said:
Mainland China is a Communist State , controlled totally by what the Chinese Goverment thinks is best , ordinary people there have no say whatsoever.

Cheers.

True, but not relevant to the quality of MIC goods that are sold in the West. It is the Western brands that decide the level of quality they want to buy. The Chinese government doesn't tell Western brands of fridges, washing machines and binos what quality and price point in the market they are going to sell at, these are decisions made in the West.

If your fridge or binos fall apart in 5 years, don't blame it on it being made in China, blame it on the brand who clearly wants to twist your arm into buying a new unit every 5 years or so. Some brands get decent quality out of China (Zeiss Terra) others take a different decision.

Lee

dries1 · May 9, 2020

The Zeiss Terra (Terror) I don't think is any better than the rest coming out of china. Sorry I have always felt that about products coming from there, they sure are good at what they do.

Andy W.

Ian Byrnes · May 9, 2020

Chinese Vangaurds EDII & German (Japanese) Conquests....

I am no optical expert so can't go in to great detail but I just wanted to compare Chinese engineering with German engineering to see how they stacked up. They do come in at different price points so may be a little unfair but here are the comparisons in very simple terms.

Weight.
Feel much the same but the Conquest is more solid and the weight distribution is better and they rest easier against my cheek bone and are more comfortable

Body coatings.
Conquest rubber feels nicer but Vanguard 'leather' lookalike rubber still feels good. The Conquest is ergonomically more pleasing

Eyecups.
Conquests feel good and eye relief good but very stiff to twist up and down and I get worried they'll break...which they have once. Vanguards good and chunky, nice rubber, but won't stay twisted out...keep going down on their own.

Lens caps.
Conquests again more substantial and better engineered although the objective lens caps won't stay in well enough. Vanguards...nice, do the job, stay on fine although cheaper in quality.

Straps.
Both really good quality and comfortable to wear. Conquests are shaped to fit your neck

Diopter settings.
Both good although Vanguards have locking mechanism

Focus control.
Conquest....silky smooth and fast to focus, Vanguard stiffer and slower to focus. The Conquest is also more precise in its focusing ability, whereas the Vanguard needs twisting back & forth to obtain a sharp image

Build quality.
Conquests are better ....finishing, materials and construction looks Germanic and high quality

Optics.
IMHO the Conquests are sharper & give truer colour, although a little cold. The Vanguards are very good although I little warmer in comparison - but still very sharp.

I personally feel that for the money the Chinese made Vanguards are excellent optically and in overall quality which highlights the argument about supplying the West with goods at a price and at a specification that we will pay for. Although I haven't tried them I assume that the Terras are similar in quality etc to the Vanguards.

dries1 · May 9, 2020

With the Conquest you will get a very good product, like any other mid range or for that matter even a premium glass you will get one with an issue. With respect to the Vanguards, one might have to do some work to get a "good sample" they are not in the same ball park with respect to build quality. I did the mail order thing with various budget glass, send them back for this /for that, I have a few are good samples, but that was luck. If one uses a vanguard every day, in about 6 months or less they will have to use the warranty. One gets what they pay for, more $$ better quality. (Budget/entry level Optics have improved over 10 years, build quality not so much, if at all)

Andy W.

lmans66 · May 9, 2020

Ian Byrnes said:
Chinese Vangaurds EDII & German (Japanese) Conquests....

I am no optical expert so can't go in to great detail but I just wanted to compare Chinese engineering with German engineering to see how they stacked up. They do come in at different price points so may be a little unfair but here are the comparisons in very simple terms.

Weight.
Feel much the same but the Conquest is more solid and the weight distribution is better and they rest easier against my cheek bone and are more comfortable

Body coatings.
Conquest rubber feels nicer but Vanguard 'leather' lookalike rubber still feels good. The Conquest is ergonomically more pleasing

Eyecups.
Conquests feel good and eye relief good but very stiff to twist up and down and I get worried they'll break...which they have once. Vanguards good and chunky, nice rubber, but won't stay twisted out...keep going down on their own.

Lens caps.
Conquests again more substantial and better engineered although the objective lens caps won't stay in well enough. Vanguards...nice, do the job, stay on fine although cheaper in quality.

Straps.
Both really good quality and comfortable to wear. Conquests are shaped to fit your neck

Diopter settings.
Both good although Vanguards have locking mechanism

Focus control.
Conquest....silky smooth and fast to focus, Vanguard stiffer and slower to focus. The Conquest is also more precise in its focusing ability, whereas the Vanguard needs twisting back & forth to obtain a sharp image

Build quality.
Conquests are better ....finishing, materials and construction looks Germanic and high quality

Optics.
IMHO the Conquests are sharper & give truer colour, although a little cold. The Vanguards are very good although I little warmer in comparison - but still very sharp.

I personally feel that for the money the Chinese made Vanguards are excellent optically and in overall quality which highlights the argument about supplying the West with goods at a price and at a specification that we will pay for. Although I haven't tried them I assume that the Terras are similar in quality etc to the Vanguards.

Based upon your own review, the Conquests are a better product. but in the last paragraph you go on to state how the Vanguard are excellent, even though they came in second.

You might get the Chinese product cheaper, and it might be look okay initially but the insides is what counts. When and how many times will you have to 'play the game' of returning the bins?

The point is that in 'optics' you get what you pay for. Buy a Chinese brand and you get a life time warranty that you will use, ....buy a mid-level pair from a company like Zeiss and get better quality. Like all optics, the buyer chooses the amount of money they want to put in, and get the quality they want out of it.

When I was younger and poor, I opted for the cheaper product. As I am older and have more discretionary income, I choose quality every time.

Patudo · May 9, 2020

dries1 said:
Why don't you give a quote then?

Andy W.

Well, since you asked so nicely, let me make a guess - maybe 50% as much again as current alphas cost? Possibly twice as much?

Everyone loves the idea of "100% Made in Germany" but are there enough folks willing to put their money where their mouths are and buy new alphas at those prices? Enough folks bitch about the price of current alphas as it is...

Steve C · May 9, 2020

Ian,

For your comparison to be valid, you need comparable price/quality levels. For example the MIJ conquest is in the neighborhood of US $1,000. So is the MIC Vortex Razor HD. That would be a better comparison. The Endeavor is a considerably less expensive glass, so even if it were MIJ, your comparison might not be much different. That does not mean the Endeavor are not decent glass, and usable for most folk, just, as you point out, not as good as the Conquest

Troubador · May 10, 2020

lmans66 said:
Like all optics, the buyer chooses the amount of money they want to put in, and get the quality they want out of it.

And being a buyer is exactly what the brands are when they source binos from manufacturers based in other countries, whether they buy lightly face-lifted versions of existing models or buy manufacturing time for binos of their own design.

The quality and price of the EDII and Conquest result from decisions made by Vanguard and Zeiss.

Lee

moyang_mm · May 17, 2020

fazalmajid said:
Companies like Apple have certainly shown you can get top quality made in China, if you are willing to spend on quality control. Nikon makes some of its top lenses like the 105/1.4E or the 500/5.6 PF in China. The difference is that they own and manage the factory in China themselves, it's not subcontracted to a third-party supplier that will inevitably cut corners after the contract is won, a phenomenon known as "quality fade" 9Just as they have a term for "good enough", chabuduo).

You need to spend on quality control to get good quality product no matter where you manufacture them. Given the same manufacturing cost, you usually get the highest quality from a factory in China; for a given quality specified, manufacturing in China is usually the cheapest.

Things are changing as Chinese labor cost going up... My excellent Sony 24GM lens is made in Thailand.

Conquest where made? (1 Viewer)

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