Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
More discoveries. NEW: Zeiss Victory SF 32

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Hummer, Mindo, Ecuador, August

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 00:33   #1
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. James, Barbados
Posts: 23,337
Hummer, Mindo, Ecuador, August

Dear all,
this bird is throwing me for a loop. Any good ideas? on one of the other images, it raised the feathers at the base of the lower mandible to a semicircle covering the base of the bill.

Location was at Yellow House lodge, near the lodge buildings.

Thanks
Niels
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Hummer q4 P1190163.jpg
Views:	191
Size:	195.0 KB
ID:	569438  
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean

Recently moved to Barbados
njlarsen is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 15:52   #2
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. James, Barbados
Posts: 23,337
Thank you to the 75 people who have taken a look so far.


Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean

Recently moved to Barbados
njlarsen is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 15:57   #3
Foxy
Registered User
 
Foxy's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Preston, Lancashire
Posts: 532
76 now but can't help off the top of my head. It's a few years since I was in Ecuador so I'll need to do some revision - I'd definitely fail the exam if I took it now!
Foxy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 18:18   #4
nikothomsen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Danmark
Posts: 493
Best guess, although I realize it does not fit perfectly, would be Andean Emerald.
nikothomsen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 18:25   #5
Maffong
Registered User
 
Maffong's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 997
Having been to Mindo a dozen times and even visited the Yellow House Trails I'm quite surprised I have some problems with this bird. But then again that was 6 years ago and I don't have my field guides here with me. I'm almost certain it's an Amazilia and the default species would be Andean Emerald, however the colours seem odd, but maybe you used a flash?

Maffong
Maffong is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 18:44   #6
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. James, Barbados
Posts: 23,337
Thanks for the input. No, I did not use flash. During the weekend I might return to this thread and upload a couple of additional images, they all show a dirty-looking underside though not all show the coppery sheen on the upperside. I believe without being certain this was near the houses, not far up the trail. I in part chose this image because it shows a dark subterminal band on the tail, I thought that might ring a bell for someone.

All the Andean Emeralds I saw (quite a lot) were much more clean white on underside and throat areas.

Again, thanks
Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean

Recently moved to Barbados
njlarsen is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 18:57   #7
nikothomsen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Danmark
Posts: 493
I completely agree that colors aren't spot on for Andean Emerald. As you say, it looks very much like you shot it from the porch, would be impressive to get this image of one of the 'wilder' hummers.

However, at Yellow-house, this species is extremely over-represented compared to other species. Looking through my own observations at YH, I would say it could be either Andean Emerald or Green-crowned Brilliant, because of the white eye-patch. Hoping others chime in, in case I'm all wrong :)
nikothomsen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 19:18   #8
ptickner
Registered User
 
ptickner's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 695
My initial thought was Andean Emerald as well, but I also agree with the others who have posted that the colors seem a little off. My other thought is female Booted Racket-tail, which also has a white postocular spot and green spotting on its sides. Your pic looks quite similar to one in Ridgely's "HBs of EC" book.
ptickner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 20:03   #9
nikothomsen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Danmark
Posts: 493
Female booted Racket-tail does not make sense to me. Comparing to Andean Emerald, the western ssp. would show an equally clear white underside, or at least larger throat area. The male could have a dirty underside, but I think the tail would then differ.
nikothomsen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 20:06   #10
nikothomsen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Danmark
Posts: 493
I know the bill is often useless as reference for ID'ing from pics of this angle, but I tell myself that i can see a curve on Niels' bird, Booted Racket-tail's is straight.
nikothomsen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 21:26   #11
Maffong
Registered User
 
Maffong's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 997
Definitely not Booted Rackettail...

Maffong
Maffong is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 22:23   #12
ptickner
Registered User
 
ptickner's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 695
For my own curiosity, please take a look at this photo ID'd as a female Booted for me. The bill looks to show some curve, and there isn't much white on the throat. I still lean towards Andean Emerald for Niels, but I threw the Booted out there since it definitely isn't an easy 100% ID.

http://ibc.lynxeds.com/photo/booted-...perched-female

Last edited by ptickner : Friday 8th January 2016 at 01:12.
ptickner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th January 2016, 00:22   #13
Maffong
Registered User
 
Maffong's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 997
This one is a Booted Rackettail no doubt, you can even see the boots :)

Maffong
Maffong is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th January 2016, 00:57   #14
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. James, Barbados
Posts: 23,337
Dear all,
thanks for all the discussion. I got a little more time today than I expected. Attached is the slightly different angle I wanted to show. Both this and the original images is in early sun that therefore is coming probably a bit behind me as if I had been using flash.

Here is a photo I consider a fairly typical view of Andean Emerald: http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/sho...1/limit/recent -- that photo is from the following day, still in the Mindo area, but out of the sun, and that might make some of the difference.

I also today saw the flight image in the Opus page and how bronzy that looked around the tail area: http://www.birdforum.net/opus/Andean_Emerald

All in all, I am coming around to the idea that Andean Emerald probably is correct for this image.

Any further comments?

Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean

Recently moved to Barbados
njlarsen is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 8th January 2016, 08:21   #15
nikothomsen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Danmark
Posts: 493
Hi Niels,

I believe you forgot to attach your own photo, or am I missing something?

Again, the colors on your bird do not appear to match with a traditional Andean Emerald, but this could be caused by the early sun you mention, and that it may be subadult. The first picture from BF clearly shows the curved bill, which your bird also show.

I'm lacking alternatives, so still Andean Emerald for me.

Thanks for the challenge!

Last edited by nikothomsen : Friday 8th January 2016 at 09:21.
nikothomsen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th January 2016, 09:10   #16
Motmot
Eduardo Amengual
 
Motmot's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: N Gredos
Posts: 6,176
Agree it's an Andean Emerald
__________________
"Happiness should always remain a bit incomplete. After all, dreams are boundless"
Karpov
Motmot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th January 2016, 12:22   #17
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. James, Barbados
Posts: 23,337
Correct, I forgot to attach.

I need to be at a different device before I can do anything about that.

Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean

Recently moved to Barbados
njlarsen is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 8th January 2016, 12:22   #18
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. James, Barbados
Posts: 23,337
Eduardo, thanks for your input

Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean

Recently moved to Barbados
njlarsen is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 9th January 2016, 00:53   #19
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. James, Barbados
Posts: 23,337
OK, for that missing attachment

Niels
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Hummer q4b P1190162.jpg
Views:	118
Size:	163.4 KB
ID:	569630  
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean

Recently moved to Barbados
njlarsen is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 9th January 2016, 00:59   #20
Maffong
Registered User
 
Maffong's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 997
I still have no clue what this is. Could it be a hybrid Rufous-tailed Hummingbird x Andean Emerald? looks too odd to be just Andean Emerald

Maffong
Maffong is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 9th January 2016, 13:41   #21
Maffong
Registered User
 
Maffong's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 997
The weirdest part is that, eventhough I don't know what it is it still looks very familiar to me, like as if I have seen it before...

Maffong
Maffong is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 9th January 2016, 13:47   #22
nikothomsen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Danmark
Posts: 493
As far as i can tell from Handbook of Avian Hybridization, there has only been one possible documented case of Andean Emerald, and there are doubts concerning this.

https://books.google.dk/booksid=MwIn...0avian&f=false
nikothomsen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 9th January 2016, 14:38   #23
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. James, Barbados
Posts: 23,337
Thank you both. I have again looked at all drawings of hummers in the two Ecuador books I have, and still not any wiser. Bronze-tailed Plumeleteer ticks some of the boxes, but I feel that the photo shows something smaller, and the range would be really off.

I have made a post in the hummingbird part of birdforum to see if anyone has any good ideas there.

Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean

Recently moved to Barbados
njlarsen is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 9th January 2016, 15:01   #24
Maffong
Registered User
 
Maffong's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 997
I just found this picture: Andean Emerald
I think it fits really good, eventhough I remember them a little bit different. I guess that's it

Maffong
Maffong is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 9th January 2016, 15:10   #25
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. James, Barbados
Posts: 23,337
Thanks for the effort. As you, I remember them different, more like this one I linked to before: http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/sho...1/limit/recent

However, it seems the one you linked to was with flash, and that a light source behind the camera imitates the effect of a flash in making the rusty colors stand out.

thanks again
Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean

Recently moved to Barbados
njlarsen is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hummer from Ecuador in August njlarsen Bird Identification Q&A 3 Tuesday 5th January 2016 21:03
Hummer, Mindo, Ecuador George Edwards Bird Identification Q&A 5 Saturday 2nd April 2011 13:57
Hummer Help, Mindo Ecuador Ecuadorrebel Bird Identification Q&A 10 Saturday 31st July 2010 02:15
Another Hummer from Mindo, Ecuador Ecuadorrebel Bird Identification Q&A 5 Monday 15th February 2010 20:54
Hummer in Mindo, Ecuador Ecuadorrebel Bird Identification Q&A 4 Saturday 13th February 2010 18:00



Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.24218202 seconds with 40 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 03:02.