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Global Warming Alarmists Caught Doctoring 97% Consensus (1 Viewer)

MarkGelbart

Well-known member
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesta...caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims/

The claim that 97% of scientists agree that man is primarily responsible for climate change is based on totally biased and really bad methodology.

Scientists have no way of discerning the difference between natural forcing and anthropogenic influences on climate change.

I do think humans are treating earth's atmosphere like a giant chemistry experiment, and the results are likely to be bad, but few are going to be willing to give up the electrical power and cars.
 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesta...caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims/

The claim that 97% of scientists agree that man is primarily responsible for climate change is based on totally biased and really bad methodology.

Scientists have no way of discerning the difference between natural forcing and anthropogenic influences on climate change.

I do think humans are treating earth's atmosphere like a giant chemistry experiment, and the results are likely to be bad, but few are going to be willing to give up the electrical power and cars.

Thank you for the link. I note the content of the May 2013 article relies heavily on a number of papers by Willie Soon, who this week was exposed as having failed to reveal that his studies had been funded by, amongst others, Koch Industries, to the tune of $1.2 million, and this conflict of interest had not been declared on any of his scientific papers. The absence of ethics is damning.
MJB
 
Heh, Soon is apparently a member of my department. We got a memo this from the director yesterday. Small world.
 
Thank you for the link. I note the content of the May 2013 article relies heavily on a number of papers by Willie Soon, who this week was exposed as having failed to reveal that his studies had been funded by, amongst others, Koch Industries, to the tune of $1.2 million, and this conflict of interest had not been declared on any of his scientific papers. The absence of ethics is damning.
MJB

Climate change is real, thanks to the S U N.....nothing to do with S O O N or, conversely, any progressive Global warming wacko.
We are very likely approaching an era of global cooling, and this will correlate to a less active sun.

And...a factoid....overall polar bear populations have likely never been higher in recorded history....but that isn't the progressive media's narrative.
Ignorance is bliss....
 
Climate change is real, thanks to the S U N.....nothing to do with S O O N or, conversely, any progressive Global warming wacko.
We are very likely approaching an era of global cooling, and this will correlate to a less active sun.

And...a factoid....overall polar bear populations have likely never been higher in recorded history....but that isn't the progressive media's narrative.
Ignorance is bliss....

Thank you for your post. You're probably correct that the general media lack journalists with any kind of scientific background and that this deficiency polarises any discussion. I wonder if you would be so kind from your position of certainty as to provide some harder data for your views? I'd appreciate some links to your sources:

a. Those scientific institutes worldwide that have different interpretations of the sun's influence from those given in the IPCC reports.

b. Any series of peer-reviewed papers on sun energy output and variation that support your position, from reputable scientific journals (Preferably those in the top ten percentile ratings of such as Scimago, Cefage or Science Gateway - with which I trust you are familiar - that apply Eigenfactor weightings).
MJB
 
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Climate change is real, thanks to the S U N.....nothing to do with S O O N or, conversely, any progressive Global warming wacko.
We are very likely approaching an era of global cooling, and this will correlate to a less active sun.

And...a factoid....overall polar bear populations have likely never been higher in recorded history....but that isn't the progressive media's narrative.
Ignorance is bliss....

How about evolution?
 
1. .....conversely, any progressive Global warming wacko.

2. We are very likely approaching an era of global cooling, and this will correlate to a less active sun.

3. And...a factoid....overall polar bear populations have likely never been higher in recorded history....but that isn't the progressive media's narrative.

Ignorance is bliss....

1. Unlike such grounded, sensible and knowledgable people as Christopher Monckton or the "non-partisan" Heartland Institute. :t:

2. You can't have it both ways. It is either "likely", in which case there is a possibility it won't happen, or "will", in which case it's a definite. As anthropogenically exacerbated climate change deniers always demand definitive answers, which is it?

3.Perhaps, yet again, your attempt to sound definitive ( while hedging your bets ) is the reason you used "factoid", a null term, instead of "fact". Something completely different.


Yes, I may be nit-picking but I'm only using the same methodology as the denial camp so .........
 
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Thank you for the link. I note the content of the May 2013 article relies heavily on a number of papers by Willie Soon, who this week was exposed as having failed to reveal that his studies had been funded by, amongst others, Koch Industries, to the tune of $1.2 million, and this conflict of interest had not been declared on any of his scientific papers. The absence of ethics is damning.
MJB

Why are you so dishonest?

The content of my linked article does not rely heavily on Willie Soon's papers.

He is mentioned once in the article.

My linked article relies heavily on investigative journalists, not scientists.
 
Hi MarkGelbart,

Interesting series of posts against global warming lobby. Just so we can evaluate it better, can you disclose what your own links to climate change lobby? Just so we know.
 
I do think humans are treating earth's atmosphere like a giant chemistry experiment, and the results are likely to be bad...
And regardless of which side of the argument people are on, I wish they'd concede to this one simple point. Of course, that would make both side's vitriolic and rhetoric rather moot.

...but few are going to be willing to give up the electrical power and cars.
Sadly, I agree...to an extent. We likely don't have to give-up either, but be more diligent in finding better ways to do things.

If we, as a species, put as much zeal (and money) into solving pollution problems, to solving habitat loss, or to solve any basic "environmental and biosphere problems" as we did being greedy and selfish, as we did researching ways to kill each other, we'd have solved the worst natural-world problems already.
 
Why are you so dishonest? The content of my linked article does not rely heavily on Willie Soon's papers. He is mentioned once in the article. My linked article relies heavily on investigative journalists, not scientists.

I've trawled through a number of sites since my previous response to you (not peer-reviewed scientific papers, just to be clear) that cite Willie Soon in support of their point of view - which was pretty unanimously anti-AGW. He clearly was the mainstay of those sites' protagonists' arguments. I wonder how quickly this pinnacle of admiration will dissipate, or will it morph into 'Willie Soon wuz ambushed'? I contend that Willie Soon was cited in your linked article precisely because he was (is?) held in the highest regard by anti-AGW people.

Investigative journalism is an admirable counter to those in positions of power who regard the attainment of power as confirmation of infallibility. I doubt if you would disagree that investigative journalism is in serious decline, which was why since my previous post I've checked out more than a few of the Forbes/Popular Mechanics efforts over the last several years. Much has generally been debunked, but does require patience to absorb dozens of pages of often difficult material.

What I've found interesting in the Forbes/Popular Mechanics articles is that many exhibit what is now termed the 'Gish Gallop' which 'is the debating technique of drowning the opponent in such a torrent of small arguments that their opponent cannot possibly answer or address each one in real time' (Thanks, RationalWiki 15 Feb 15).

Now it is my opinion that investigative journalism by definition cannot employ the 'Gish Gallop' approach (so named after a 'Young-Earth creationist', one Duane Gish, who claimed to be such a creature, whatever that might be), but instead constructs a coherent and articulate argument by providing evidence that itself withstands close examination. In the case of climate science, that necessarily means that worldwide, scientific institutions either are in considerable disagreement - which would feature strongly in the top-ranked scientific journals - or they are not.

Investigative journalism that revealed matters that, after peer-review, were published evidence that the thousands of scientists whose work for the IPCC reports were in error, would ensure that Nobel Prizes in a number of scientific disciplines were awarded. It is also my opinion that the scientists whose work had been overturned would be among the first to acclaim the new evidence.

It is further my opinion, which may or may not be informed from my background in applied science, mathematical modelling (though not as a mathematician designing models), my extensive reading in biological matters, physics, my acquaintance with scientists during critiques of draft complex scientific papers, that I take with considerably more than a pinch of salt countervailing claims of those outside front-line science or without field experience. That said, any investigative journalism from disinterested parties is not only welcome, but is positively to be encouraged.

Your Forbes citation is crammed with expressions that are far from neutral, yet it is the use of neutral language expressed with passion that convinces. I make no claims that my words here are the be-all and end-all and that my opinion should prevail. Instead, I would encourage others to check for themselves to determine what weight should be given to each scientific paper, article or blog.

You obviously have strong views. Would you consider approaching any scientific institution that is involved in climate research to ask for a public seminar?
MJB
 
The claim that 97% of scientists agree that man is primarily responsible for climate change is based on totally biased and really bad methodology.

It boils down to simple physics, fossil fuels burnt>CO2 released>CO2 is a GHG>more heat is trapped>the global atmosphere and and ocean temperatures increase>changes in climatic conditions.

All the above have been scrutinised, measured and documented compiling a MASSIVE bank of knowledge. Whether 0%, 97% or 100% "believe" it's true has no baring on the outcome.
 
Why are you so dishonest?

The content of my linked article does not rely heavily on Willie Soon's papers.

He is mentioned once in the article.

My linked article relies heavily on investigative journalists, not scientists.

Soon? Because he is the progressive topic du jour. The same reason the poster eluded to Koch Industries. It's all about talking points.
The calamities that AL Gore foretold aren't materializing, nor will they.
Follow the money and the proposed (and coveted) 'carbon tax' to unravel the grand hoax.
And some here ask about "evolution" as if there is some relevance. :-O

I noticed the poster didn't elude to the leaked emails from '09-'10 that showed the colluding of U.K. scientist "peers" who knowingly skewed research to favor the Warming religion.
 
It boils down to simple physics, fossil fuels burnt>CO2 released>CO2 is a GHG>more heat is trapped>the global atmosphere and and ocean temperatures increase>changes in climatic conditions.

All the above have been scrutinised, measured and documented compiling a MASSIVE bank of knowledge. Whether 0%, 97% or 100% "believe" it's true has no baring on the outcome.

Simple physics? Really?
Quite ironic.
Here in the northern Idaho the farmers burn the wheat fields every Summer. It's a practice I don't like; the air stinks, it's not good for the environment, but it does help the soon-to-be-planted crops as a natural fertilizer.

The 85-90 degree air becomes quickly and markedly cooler with these burns. The sun can't penetrate the smoke and the resulting trapped air cools.
This same phenomena occurs with volcanic eruptions. Some of the coolest times in our planet's history (as evidenced from tree ring and ice core analysis) came as a result of the occluded sunshine.
This flies in the face of the scenario you put forth.

Explain the reason that neighboring planets experienced warming in virtual correlation to our planet.

Answer: It is that relative factor in our solar system call the S U N.

It's an odd juxtaposition here, arguing this warming religion with fellow birders. But I digress. Moving on.
 
The 85-90 degree air becomes quickly and markedly cooler with these burns. The sun can't penetrate the smoke and the resulting trapped air cools.
This same phenomena occurs with volcanic eruptions. Some of the coolest times in our planet's history (as evidenced from tree ring and ice core analysis) came as a result of the occluded sunshine.
This flies in the face of the scenario you put forth.

*sigh

Of course cooling occurs on a local/widespread area depending on the consistency of volcanic emissions and the altitude to which the materials are injected. Sulphur dioxide has reflective properties that block insolation. The amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes on an annual basis (0.13-0.44 gigatons) is insignificant when seen next to the global human induced figure of 35 gigatons in one single year (2010)!
 
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