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Sony RX10 1V the new boy. (3 Viewers)

My thoughts really haven't changed. It's lovely that it is so lightweight compared to a DSLR. Lens and sensor are great. Autofocus is pretty good but not on par with my 7DII. For perched birds it is completely fine for me.

However for BiF, particularly seabirds, I find it basically useless. The EVF makes it impossible to see if you are getting focus (or even have in the frame) a smallish distant seabird. It is also slow to startup and slow to extend the zoom lens.

I am just about decided to sell mine, it really doesn't get close enough to a DSLR for my desires/needs.
 
I can see that eg storm petrels low over the sea from a boat and the autofocus won't match a DSLR but, for just about everything else, I find the Sony's autofocus amazing for birds in flight, eg swifts, distant hawking little gulls as well as easier things like raptors. My bottom line is that the overall image quality isn't up to the Canon 7Dii, but it is very acceptable considering the massive drop in weight. I'm keeping my 7Dii + 400DO + 1.4x (and my 800mm) for when I'm twitching or after a particular target but, when I'm just walking around hoping (90% of the time), I now carry the Sony all the time. The 100-400ii hasn't come out of the drawer since I got the Sony. Oh, and the Sony is actually better for butterflies & dragonflies (and flowers), so it's a do-all in one much lighter package.
 
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I will say if I had all my gear nicked I wouldn't consider replacing the SLR stuff but would replace the Sony - I just couldn't go back to lugging that gear but then I will often spend ten hours walking around in mountains. It's whether to take quite a loss and sell the SLR gear or keep it for times when weight doesn't matter. It's not far from the quality of an SLR but it isn't there yet. The start up time is okay if you let it go to standby on maximum zoom then it reverts to that when you touch the shutter button. I find the evf absolutely fine but I rarely photograph distant seabirds. I have taken lots of birds in flight, but usually pretty close. I do find that sometimes it appears to not focus for no apparent reason, generally on fairly close stuff then it will just snap into focus. Going back to the standby, having it swinging from your shoulder does seem to make it reluctant to go into standby and it does get through the batteries so this matters. 24 fps just mad. I put it on medium but some people may want this.
 
I think it really depends on what you want. If you want to ID distant distant BiF and seabirds it is pretty useless as you can’t find the birds in the EVF. Beyond that it is about as good as you can hope for in terms of a bridge camera...

I pretty much only use the camera for distant/difficult seabirds and raptors any more so, for me, it doesn’t really make the grade.
 
Many thanks to you all for your feedback. It is much appreciated. Most of my photography is, as Steve Gantlett puts it, wandering around hoping. I don't do much low-light work or BIFs, so it sounds as if the RX10 IV could fit the bill.

Its portability and versatility appeal to me. It's the price tag that makes me hesitate.

Malcolm
 
However for BiF, particularly seabirds, I find it basically useless. The EVF makes it impossible to see if you are getting focus (or even have in the frame) a smallish distant seabird.

Disclaimer: I don't have a RX10iv, and little opportunity for seabird-watching. - Do you think this failure is model-specific, or is it a more general EVF/OVF issue? I've encountered cases where I found an OVF (of a Canon 450D, or a bino's) much superior to an EVF. For example, larks sitting in a field, 25-30m away. Very hard to locate with an EVF... much easier with an optical viewfinder. Could this be a similar phenomenon for seabird-watching - I assume it's mostly birds in a distance, sometimes hard to locate near the waves or at the horizon?
 
Though not the original commenter, I wanted to just offer some reply to HermitIbis on EVF vs OVF with regard to BIFs of all types. First off, I've been a long-time BIF shooter, with both DSLRs and mirrorless - many times I've gone out with BOTH types, and switched from OVF to EVF throughout the day. I will say that EVFs in general can be just as good as OVF, once you've become accustomed to them, with the caveat that not all EVFs are equal.

Generally, the best EVFs are going to be the ones that offer a true live refresh or 'live view' mode, where there's minimal delay that's approximately the same as the shutter blackout on an OVF, that allows you to easily acquire a distant subject and maintain it in the finder while panning and shooting. Older EVFs usually would display a 'slideshow' effect, where what you were seeing while shooting a burst of photos was a succession of the last shot taken - which meant you were always at least 1 full frame behind the action. Not bad with a big, slow bird moving consistently, but not good for small distant birds, erratic and fast birds. Newer EVFs have solved that issue with real-time display up to certain burst speeds.
Other factors include refresh rates and frame rates - newer EVFs have significantly improved the refresh speeds, and also allow up to 120fps on the EVFs making them much more accurate, no staggering or stutter, etc.
Setting up the EVF properly can help, and also setting up the camera properly for best BIF shooting. Of course, some people may have trouble adapting to EVFs in general, even good ones, if they've spent their whole lives with OVFs...but as someone who shot OVFs since 1977, and EVFs since 1997, I've been able to adapt to both -and also watched the EVFs get significantly better along the way. I'd suggest on the RX10IV, if shooting action/BIF, to switch the 'display quality' setting to 'high' - which should increase the screen refresh from 60fps to 120fps, for smoother and better panning. Next, I'd recommend turning OFF the 'pre-AF' in the menu. This will essentially make the camera behave a bit more like a DSLR...pre-AF has the autofocus constantly working on the camera, even when you're not half-pressing the shutter, which sometimes means strange hunting or catching up when you try to acquire a distant subject. Turning off pre-AF means it won't make any attempt to adjust focus until you tell it to - so even if you were just shooting a macro from 4 feet, and now want to shoot a distant bird, the EVF will be complete blur (just like an OVF would be at minimum focus distance if you tried to look at a subject 200 yards away)...and when you half-press, the focus will go into its highest speed mode to try to acquire the subject...I find it acquires distant subjects much more quickly this way. The one thing missing on the RX10IV's viewfinder is the specialized 'live view' mode as on the A6300 and 6500, or the even better blackout-free mode as on the A9. So there will always be a slight lag in the finder, whether in 10fps mode where you get a very-quickly-refreshing slideshow effect (about .10 sec behind), or a continuous video feed at 24fps, but with the video delayed by about .10 to .15). This can generally be overcome once you get used to these systems, though might present a challenge if shooting something like martins, swifts, or swallows in full swoop from 30 feet, with their erratic movements.
 
Disclaimer: I don't have a RX10iv, and little opportunity for seabird-watching. - Do you think this failure is model-specific, or is it a more general EVF/OVF issue? I've encountered cases where I found an OVF (of a Canon 450D, or a bino's) much superior to an EVF. For example, larks sitting in a field, 25-30m away. Very hard to locate with an EVF... much easier with an optical viewfinder. Could this be a similar phenomenon for seabird-watching - I assume it's mostly birds in a distance, sometimes hard to locate near the waves or at the horizon?

This does repeat the above a bit but I think the evf is probably about as good as they get. I have had several 'superzooms' and hated the evfs. This is a whole new level. No it's not as good as ovf but for me it's pretty impressive and I find using the evf of the Sony much less of a problem than I thought I would.
 
Thank you, Justin and Steve, for your replies. Several BIF-ers have sold their Nikon V3 for the Sony RX10iv, and one day I might follow. DSLRs are heavy.

This does repeat the above a bit but I think the evf is probably about as good as they get. I have had several 'superzooms' and hated the evfs. This is a whole new level. No it's not as good as ovf but for me it's pretty impressive and I find using the evf of the Sony much less of a problem than I thought I would.

I have the Nikon V3 with a similar quality EVF - 2.4 million dots, like the Sony. A massive improvement over the V2's EVF. When it's easy to shoot a tern flying over the Rhine, can distant seabirds pose such a problem? If the EVF isn't the real culprit, can it be a version of "camera struggling with BIF against a messy background"? Perhaps among the myriad of settings (mentioned by Justin) there is one which can solve the seabird problem.
 
On the Sony RX10iv vs SLR debate, I've just shot 130 RAW shots at 10fps before it slowed down (admittedly more-or-less to a halt). My Canon 7D mark ii would have lasted 21 RAW shots.
 
For comparison: I do not think I ever held the shutter down through 10 images. I often have refocused and shot another short series a number of times such that the total of a bird within a short period of time is more like 30 total images. I do not know if I would have run out on the Canon you describe (I currently use a Pana G85).

Niels
 
Some pics from Finland

In search for bird pictures made with the tempting Sony RX10 IV I found this page via Google and I'm simply blown away: https://tkansanaho.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Sony+RX10+IV+kuvia/.
Obviously, the author is a master craftsman (and hence in stark contrast to me ;) ) but it seems this darn expensive all-in-one p+s is capable enough. I think that I, too, have to check the Sony against my combo Canon 7DII+100-400LII.
 
Check done. The RX10M4 has an awesome lens and AF-C, perfect travel cam. But -to me!- the pictures show less than ideal contrast and seem to be covered with a tiny little bit of bluish haze. BIF is easy when the birds are close/large enough and nearly impossible when they are small or far away. ISO 800 is too grainy for my tastes. The buttons and wheels feel cheap. Fortunately the lens of my copy of the RX10M4 was slightly decentered (the images appeared sharper on their left side) so the decision was easy and I will send it back and keep my trusty Canon 7DII/100-400LII.

But I guess 5 years from now the 1" bridge cameras will be noticeably better than now. And then I will give up my heavy DSLR gear.
 
My first images using this camera after changing from SX60, pleased overall so far, specially as weather hasn't been great since i got it so not really had a good chance to try it with good lighting.

The blackbirds and sparrows were taken through a window and were more test images than anything else. The dunlin, ringed plover (my favourite so far) and gulls were taken using RAW and the Oystercatcher and Turnstone using JPEG.

I'm still getting used to it though and need to find settings that work. But overall i'm happy with how most have turned out, it's a big improvement on the SX60 but i guess you'd expect that anyway.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/charlesbeams87/
 

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