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Taxonomy (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter AlexC
- Start date
Rasmus Boegh said:
Hey, just found this topic after recent conversations I've had with people about taxonomy. Rasmus - what about the "Italian Sparrow"? Passer domesticus italiae? Isn't that a reproductively isolated population that came into being through hybridization (House x Spanish)?
Not Rasmus, but: Beaman and Madge (at least in the Danish version with KM Olsen) says that Italian sparrow hybridizes with House sparrow in the southern Alps, and in S Italy, and with Spanish Sparrow in Rhodos. The population of some mediterranean islands, e.g., Malta, is said to have its origin in a hybrid population. The question therefore becomes: is the zone of hybridization narrow enough to argue for reproductive isolation, or is it wide enough for continued treatment as subspecies. This is a thing you can expect continued fights over just like some of the centuries old political disagreaments in Europe 
Cheers
Niels
Cheers
Niels
jocateme
Well-known member
The Brazilian checklist I use is this one from Brazilian Ornithological Records Committee (CBRO). As seen in the 4th paragraph, they follow the "GLC – General Lineage [Species] Concept (de Queiroz, 2005. PNAS 102: 6600-6607)". What does that mean (forgive me if it's a silly question)?
And after all, what checklist does BirdForum use? What is the most recommended? I could see most of birders follow the Biological Species Concept, but what what checklist is the best in your opinion. Sorry if I'm not aware of the subject.
P.S.: Just realised the thread is older than I thought.
And after all, what checklist does BirdForum use? What is the most recommended? I could see most of birders follow the Biological Species Concept, but what what checklist is the best in your opinion. Sorry if I'm not aware of the subject.
P.S.: Just realised the thread is older than I thought.
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Xenospiza
Distracted
Birdforum uses the Howard and Moore list if I'm not mistaken.
The following is all tough philosophical stuff... I'm not saying I understand it!
De Queiroz' species concept means "all separately evolving metapopulation lineages would be species". So the question isn't silly at all – but I cannot really explain the answer. The article is available here:
http://www.nmnh.si.edu/vert/reptiles/Publications/2005deQueirozPNAS.pdf
You could also try http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/species/
The following is all tough philosophical stuff... I'm not saying I understand it!
De Queiroz' species concept means "all separately evolving metapopulation lineages would be species". So the question isn't silly at all – but I cannot really explain the answer. The article is available here:
http://www.nmnh.si.edu/vert/reptiles/Publications/2005deQueirozPNAS.pdf
You could also try http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/species/
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cuckooroller
Registered User
Xenospiza said:
JH,
I wish! Unfortunately, it uses the Sibley-Monroe, though I have tried to modify and update it at least in part. Perhaps, one day they will change over. It would be better to switch to that list in my view. I guess it might be better to wait on that until the new 4° Edition comes out and I can put it into Excel.
jocateme
Well-known member
I know Sibley-Monroe checklist has many modifications in higher taxa in comparison to the tradicional taxonomy, especially in orders (e.g. the expansion of Ciconiiformes, the new Craciformes, Turniciformes, Bucerotiformes etc.), but what were the changes in the species? What concept do it follow? I'm little confused about this.
cuckooroller
Registered User
João,
There used to be a sticky in the Photos and Corrections for Database Forum. I don't know what happened to that. It would be hard for me to remember what I did do as far as changes at the species level where I made any discretional changes. I mostly went through the whole Database and weeded out any generic and specific names not conformant to the latest Sibley-Monroe list that I have which is that updated to September, 2003 and still available on www.ornitaxa.com Once I got finished with the weeding out and changing generic and specific names then I did make some discretional changes at the specific level updating certain species beyond that of the September 2003 list when I felt that if the Sibley-Monroe still had a taxonomic group behind it (which it does not, by the way) that they would have probably allowed the same changes to the list that I was making at my discretion. Pyrrhura taxonomy comes to mind, I allowed a change in the Crescentchests I believe, but for me to recall now after nearly two years and without the aid of that sticky that I mentioned is a tough call. I would have to go through all of the Database taxonomy and compare to the original list.
There used to be a sticky in the Photos and Corrections for Database Forum. I don't know what happened to that. It would be hard for me to remember what I did do as far as changes at the species level where I made any discretional changes. I mostly went through the whole Database and weeded out any generic and specific names not conformant to the latest Sibley-Monroe list that I have which is that updated to September, 2003 and still available on www.ornitaxa.com Once I got finished with the weeding out and changing generic and specific names then I did make some discretional changes at the specific level updating certain species beyond that of the September 2003 list when I felt that if the Sibley-Monroe still had a taxonomic group behind it (which it does not, by the way) that they would have probably allowed the same changes to the list that I was making at my discretion. Pyrrhura taxonomy comes to mind, I allowed a change in the Crescentchests I believe, but for me to recall now after nearly two years and without the aid of that sticky that I mentioned is a tough call. I would have to go through all of the Database taxonomy and compare to the original list.
Xenospiza
Distracted
I just sent someone an overview of new species in the last two years, but did not save it (but wikipedia is quite complete here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_species_new_to_science_described_in_the_2000s).
I had a few interesting splits as well... Taiwan Hwamei and Eastern Riflebird (albeit not accepted by all yet) spring to mind!
I had a few interesting splits as well... Taiwan Hwamei and Eastern Riflebird (albeit not accepted by all yet) spring to mind!
cuckooroller
Registered User
jocateme said:
Hi Joao,
Yes, I guess I could just throw them in. Actually, I have kind of been waiting on considering any changes to be made for a few things to happen. The next time the database must be updated it will probably have to be a very large and comprehensive update for several reasons, some of which might be intuited by reading this: http://www.simplybirding.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2626#2626
I would like to see what the new Clements looks like. I want to see a finalized SACC Baseline List for the Neotropicals. I will have to buy the upcoming Indonesian Country List when it finally comes out (should be this year) and have a good hard look at it. Lastly, the most screwy problem right now is trying to figure out what some of the Oriental bird groups will look like, especially the Babblers.
cuckooroller
Registered User
João,
Yes, to a certain extent. The list that you have of the HM faithfully follows the listing sequence of the text volume Howard & Moore.
Yes, to a certain extent. The list that you have of the HM faithfully follows the listing sequence of the text volume Howard & Moore.
Ian Hamiltan
Well-known member
hi everyone
i might be slow on the uptake here but what does taxonomy mean im getting
confused between that and taxadermy.
i might be slow on the uptake here but what does taxonomy mean im getting
confused between that and taxadermy.
Courtesy of Dictionary.com:
Taxidermy - the art of preparing and preserving the skins of animals and of stuffing and mounting them in lifelike form.
Taxonomy - a) the science or technique of classification. b) the science dealing with the description, identification, naming, and classification of organisms.
Taxidermy - the art of preparing and preserving the skins of animals and of stuffing and mounting them in lifelike form.
Taxonomy - a) the science or technique of classification. b) the science dealing with the description, identification, naming, and classification of organisms.
Ian Hamiltan
Well-known member
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