HighNorth
Well-known member
Sounds like something I should fill before and/or after reading BF posts!B
...only if BF post aren't entertainment enough for you!
-
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New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Chosun Juan
- Start date
...only if BF post aren't entertainment enough for you!
jan van daalen
Well-known member
Sounds like something I should fill before and/or after reading BF posts!B
In that case I would recommend blei kristal, but watch out it's razor sharp:t:
brocknroller
porromaniac
What you said, of course, is true, bins are not as complicated as cars, and I thought of this when I wrote my post but forgot to qualify that, so I'm glad you did. However, often the things that fail in cars are simple items, not complete systems. For example, the ignition switches on GM cars, or the recent airbag recalls (in this case, not OEM made), the tire blowouts on Ford Explorers a few years ago (again, not OEM, Bridgestone tires, but the fatalities were due to SUVs being more prone to rolling over after a blowout because of the position of their center of gravity).
Last year, I was driving my GM car on the highway and was getting off at my local exit when the brakes failed. No warning light, if not for the hand brake, I would not be here to tell the tale or if happened while going 55mph on the highway. The master cylinder went w/out any warning light or signs that it was failing. One minute, normal brake travel, next minute, no brakes. Ahhhhhh!
But where the two products are analogous is that the number of Mercedes and BMW cars/SUVs sold in the U.S. are relatively small compared to Chevy and Ford, and like alphas, these brands are premium priced.
So there are a lot less vehicles to inspect, at least coming into the U.S., than American car makers' products. The same is true for alphas. Despite someone's claim about SV EL's "selling like hotcakes," I'm sure the sales are small compared to Nikon Monarchs and Bushnell Trophies.
So why can't all Zeiss bins go through a QC inspection? That's a question for Mike Jensen or Dr. Dobler (maybe Lee can get you in contact with him
). I do think that asking $3,000 for a binocular to be sharp is too much, because $3,000 is too much for any binocular to cost. That's more then the Kelley Blue Book price of my car (even with the brakes fixed)!
Brock
perterra
Well-known member
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
NDhunter
Experienced observer
Kammerdiner
Well-known member
I was recently reminded that Swaro ended up with a year-and-a-half delay when they introduced the 42mm SV's. That was before my time around here so I went back to 2008 in the archives and sure enough the delay was that long. The way Swaro handled it is instructive.
My review was hurried, but I think this is right. Swaro originally scheduled the SV's to be released Aug 2008. This was pushed back to Jan 2009 in Europe, Feb 2009 in US. And finally in Fall 2008, Swaro just called the whole thing off and went for 2010.
Here's two posts from one of the threads that show how Swaro decided to handle glitches and delays:
#193, 17 Oct, 2008
Hi All
I had been waiting for these to come out as I want a pair of high end bins, and wanted to compare the new swaros to rest of the market leaders. Concerned by the withdrawal of all mention of the new bins on the swaro website, I emailed them - here is the reply
"With regards to the new EL 8,5X42 we have recently been informed that there will be a delay on the production of this range.
We have been informed by Austria that the design of the new EL range EL
42 requires the most stringent production tolerances. Unfortunately it became clear that with the current production technology, we could not meet the expected high production amounts and stay within these tolerances. Therefore, improvements to the production technology must be made in order to guarantee for 2010 a smooth launch, with sufficient high quantities and short shipping times for dealers and end users.
Until the new EL range is produced for 2010, the existing EL 42, a top quality, award winning pair of binoculars will remain on the market.
The delay that has been placed on the new EL range is worldwide and therefore will not be available to buy from any country until 2010. "
...
#218, 20 Oct 2008
Dear all
I followed your discussion and the various posts on the availability of our new EL 42 binoculars.
Indeed that's not an outstanding situation for the company. The decision was very difficult, especially as we have to disappoint many customers who now need to wait for another year. Sorry for that. But this decision had to be taken to follow our principles. To offer highest quality in each single product leaving the factory is part of our philosophy and strategy.
Mark posted already our statement, so I do not need to repeat that. I just want to make clear that the delay of our bins is not related to the economical situation in the world. I can say this, as the feedback and the demand after the launch in summer was very positive and we would really love to ship them. But another reason for that quite long delay is, that we don't want to deliver just a few 100 pieces to customers (as assumed by Arran from Belgium). We want to guarantee a smooth launch with short shipping times to all our dealers and customers worldwide.
Swarovski Optik is proud on the new binoculars as we know that this new concept really opens a new dimension in observation. But we are not proud on that situation of postponing the delivery. Anyway. We have to face this situation now and that's why we informed press and dealers end of last week.
Hope this statement answers your questions.
Thank you for your understanding.
Best regards from Austria,
Andreas Pittl
SWAROVSKI OPTIK KG
------------------
I think deliveries began Jan 2010. I wonder if Zeiss might have been better off going this route with the SF. Swaro's strategy to just wait until both product and production are ready to go has certainly worked since, with SLC HD, 30mm CL, ATX scopes, 25mm Pocket. I noticed that in those threads folks were getting impatient with the delays and turned off on the SV's, also that some thought the whole thing was a marketing ploy, etc. Sound familiar? Pulling the plug, in retrospect, seems like a smart move.
Here's the thread, but there are a number of threads that overlap, and be forewarned, there's a lot of the usual digressions:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=116840
Mark
My review was hurried, but I think this is right. Swaro originally scheduled the SV's to be released Aug 2008. This was pushed back to Jan 2009 in Europe, Feb 2009 in US. And finally in Fall 2008, Swaro just called the whole thing off and went for 2010.
Here's two posts from one of the threads that show how Swaro decided to handle glitches and delays:
#193, 17 Oct, 2008
Hi All
I had been waiting for these to come out as I want a pair of high end bins, and wanted to compare the new swaros to rest of the market leaders. Concerned by the withdrawal of all mention of the new bins on the swaro website, I emailed them - here is the reply
"With regards to the new EL 8,5X42 we have recently been informed that there will be a delay on the production of this range.
We have been informed by Austria that the design of the new EL range EL
42 requires the most stringent production tolerances. Unfortunately it became clear that with the current production technology, we could not meet the expected high production amounts and stay within these tolerances. Therefore, improvements to the production technology must be made in order to guarantee for 2010 a smooth launch, with sufficient high quantities and short shipping times for dealers and end users.
Until the new EL range is produced for 2010, the existing EL 42, a top quality, award winning pair of binoculars will remain on the market.
The delay that has been placed on the new EL range is worldwide and therefore will not be available to buy from any country until 2010. "
...
#218, 20 Oct 2008
Dear all
I followed your discussion and the various posts on the availability of our new EL 42 binoculars.
Indeed that's not an outstanding situation for the company. The decision was very difficult, especially as we have to disappoint many customers who now need to wait for another year. Sorry for that. But this decision had to be taken to follow our principles. To offer highest quality in each single product leaving the factory is part of our philosophy and strategy.
Mark posted already our statement, so I do not need to repeat that. I just want to make clear that the delay of our bins is not related to the economical situation in the world. I can say this, as the feedback and the demand after the launch in summer was very positive and we would really love to ship them. But another reason for that quite long delay is, that we don't want to deliver just a few 100 pieces to customers (as assumed by Arran from Belgium). We want to guarantee a smooth launch with short shipping times to all our dealers and customers worldwide.
Swarovski Optik is proud on the new binoculars as we know that this new concept really opens a new dimension in observation. But we are not proud on that situation of postponing the delivery. Anyway. We have to face this situation now and that's why we informed press and dealers end of last week.
Hope this statement answers your questions.
Thank you for your understanding.
Best regards from Austria,
Andreas Pittl
SWAROVSKI OPTIK KG
------------------
I think deliveries began Jan 2010. I wonder if Zeiss might have been better off going this route with the SF. Swaro's strategy to just wait until both product and production are ready to go has certainly worked since, with SLC HD, 30mm CL, ATX scopes, 25mm Pocket. I noticed that in those threads folks were getting impatient with the delays and turned off on the SV's, also that some thought the whole thing was a marketing ploy, etc. Sound familiar? Pulling the plug, in retrospect, seems like a smart move.
Here's the thread, but there are a number of threads that overlap, and be forewarned, there's a lot of the usual digressions
:http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=116840
Mark
8x60deckmount
Well-known member
zeiss could do that but the customers dont want it that way . They only want it at cheaper and cheaper prices .
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David in NC
Well-known member
Hmmmm... With much complaints about Swaro focusers I'm wondering if Swaro couldn't redesign the focuser and add a bigger wheel (al la HT and SF...would only require a tad of re-engineering to the barrels) to the Swarovision/EL line... Hmmm...I like it alot. :t:
perterra
Well-known member
I was recently reminded that Swaro ended up with a year-and-a-half delay when they introduced the 42mm SV's. That was before my time around here so I went back to 2008 in the archives and sure enough the delay was that long. The way Swaro handled it is instructive.
My review was hurried, but I think this is right. Swaro originally scheduled the SV's to be released Aug 2008. This was pushed back to Jan 2009 in Europe, Feb 2009 in US. And finally in Fall 2008, Swaro just called the whole thing off and went for 2010.
Here's two posts from one of the threads that show how Swaro decided to handle glitches and delays:
#193, 17 Oct, 2008
Hi All
I had been waiting for these to come out as I want a pair of high end bins, and wanted to compare the new swaros to rest of the market leaders. Concerned by the withdrawal of all mention of the new bins on the swaro website, I emailed them - here is the reply
"With regards to the new EL 8,5X42 we have recently been informed that there will be a delay on the production of this range.
We have been informed by Austria that the design of the new EL range EL
42 requires the most stringent production tolerances. Unfortunately it became clear that with the current production technology, we could not meet the expected high production amounts and stay within these tolerances. Therefore, improvements to the production technology must be made in order to guarantee for 2010 a smooth launch, with sufficient high quantities and short shipping times for dealers and end users.
Until the new EL range is produced for 2010, the existing EL 42, a top quality, award winning pair of binoculars will remain on the market.
The delay that has been placed on the new EL range is worldwide and therefore will not be available to buy from any country until 2010. "
...
#218, 20 Oct 2008
Dear all
I followed your discussion and the various posts on the availability of our new EL 42 binoculars.
Indeed that's not an outstanding situation for the company. The decision was very difficult, especially as we have to disappoint many customers who now need to wait for another year. Sorry for that. But this decision had to be taken to follow our principles. To offer highest quality in each single product leaving the factory is part of our philosophy and strategy.
Mark posted already our statement, so I do not need to repeat that. I just want to make clear that the delay of our bins is not related to the economical situation in the world. I can say this, as the feedback and the demand after the launch in summer was very positive and we would really love to ship them. But another reason for that quite long delay is, that we don't want to deliver just a few 100 pieces to customers (as assumed by Arran from Belgium). We want to guarantee a smooth launch with short shipping times to all our dealers and customers worldwide.
Swarovski Optik is proud on the new binoculars as we know that this new concept really opens a new dimension in observation. But we are not proud on that situation of postponing the delivery. Anyway. We have to face this situation now and that's why we informed press and dealers end of last week.
Hope this statement answers your questions.
Thank you for your understanding.
Best regards from Austria,
Andreas Pittl
SWAROVSKI OPTIK KG
------------------
I think deliveries began Jan 2010. I wonder if Zeiss might have been better off going this route with the SF. Swaro's strategy to just wait until both product and production are ready to go has certainly worked since, with SLC HD, 30mm CL, ATX scopes, 25mm Pocket. I noticed that in those threads folks were getting impatient with the delays and turned off on the SV's, also that some thought the whole thing was a marketing ploy, etc. Sound familiar? Pulling the plug, in retrospect, seems like a smart move.
Here's the thread, but there are a number of threads that overlap, and be forewarned, there's a lot of the usual digressions
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=116840
Mark
I'd be willing to bet that the problems they suffered through are what Zeiss is fighting. I think the way they handled it might have been the better choice,
brocknroller
porromaniac
Much complaints about Swaro focusers? Really? I thought I was the only one. At least that's what the "Absam: Love or it Leave It" zealots think. Talk about denial. Jan's accusation is misplaced. As the saying goes, when you point your finger, there are three fingers pointing back at you.
Glad you're interested in this issue, too. It's like James said, if you point out a flaw, the fanboys jump you or you get told to move on and buy another bin. I can't afford an SLC (HD) at this time, but it's on my Bucket List, and before I kick it over, I hope they fix the d*^&ed focusers! The one I tried wasn't too bad, just a little harder to turn in one direction than the other, but others haven't been so lucky. Even more so for the ELs.
Btw, simply making the wheel bigger wouldn't solve the problem, they need to ditch the one-way spring design, which is likely the source of the focuser issues.
<B>
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jan van daalen
Well-known member
I was recently reminded that Swaro ended up with a year-and-a-half delay when they introduced the 42mm SV's. That was before my time around here so I went back to 2008 in the archives and sure enough the delay was that long. The way Swaro handled it is instructive.
My review was hurried, but I think this is right. Swaro originally scheduled the SV's to be released Aug 2008. This was pushed back to Jan 2009 in Europe, Feb 2009 in US. And finally in Fall 2008, Swaro just called the whole thing off and went for 2010.
Here's two posts from one of the threads that show how Swaro decided to handle glitches and delays:
#193, 17 Oct, 2008
Hi All
I had been waiting for these to come out as I want a pair of high end bins, and wanted to compare the new swaros to rest of the market leaders. Concerned by the withdrawal of all mention of the new bins on the swaro website, I emailed them - here is the reply
"With regards to the new EL 8,5X42 we have recently been informed that there will be a delay on the production of this range.
We have been informed by Austria that the design of the new EL range EL
42 requires the most stringent production tolerances. Unfortunately it became clear that with the current production technology, we could not meet the expected high production amounts and stay within these tolerances. Therefore, improvements to the production technology must be made in order to guarantee for 2010 a smooth launch, with sufficient high quantities and short shipping times for dealers and end users.
Until the new EL range is produced for 2010, the existing EL 42, a top quality, award winning pair of binoculars will remain on the market.
The delay that has been placed on the new EL range is worldwide and therefore will not be available to buy from any country until 2010. "
...
#218, 20 Oct 2008
Dear all
I followed your discussion and the various posts on the availability of our new EL 42 binoculars.
Indeed that's not an outstanding situation for the company. The decision was very difficult, especially as we have to disappoint many customers who now need to wait for another year. Sorry for that. But this decision had to be taken to follow our principles. To offer highest quality in each single product leaving the factory is part of our philosophy and strategy.
Mark posted already our statement, so I do not need to repeat that. I just want to make clear that the delay of our bins is not related to the economical situation in the world. I can say this, as the feedback and the demand after the launch in summer was very positive and we would really love to ship them. But another reason for that quite long delay is, that we don't want to deliver just a few 100 pieces to customers (as assumed by Arran from Belgium). We want to guarantee a smooth launch with short shipping times to all our dealers and customers worldwide.
Swarovski Optik is proud on the new binoculars as we know that this new concept really opens a new dimension in observation. But we are not proud on that situation of postponing the delivery. Anyway. We have to face this situation now and that's why we informed press and dealers end of last week.
Hope this statement answers your questions.
Thank you for your understanding.
Best regards from Austria,
Andreas Pittl
SWAROVSKI OPTIK KG
------------------
I think deliveries began Jan 2010. I wonder if Zeiss might have been better off going this route with the SF. Swaro's strategy to just wait until both product and production are ready to go has certainly worked since, with SLC HD, 30mm CL, ATX scopes, 25mm Pocket. I noticed that in those threads folks were getting impatient with the delays and turned off on the SV's, also that some thought the whole thing was a marketing ploy, etc. Sound familiar? Pulling the plug, in retrospect, seems like a smart move.
Here's the thread, but there are a number of threads that overlap, and be forewarned, there's a lot of the usual digressions
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=116840
Mark
Nice find Mark,
I like to add one small detail to this episode.
Personally I don't believe in a marketing ploy but more in terms of a marketing nightmare.
Swarovski made a genius move after this debacle. They offered the customer the EL which the customer could return a year later for the SV.
The EL's went back to Absam, got refurbished and were sold with a huge discount. Swarovski hit two strokes: There was no delay in sales and a lot of people who didn't bought the SV did buy the cheaper EL in stead and by doing so sales for Zeiss and Leica dropped dead for two years.
2010/11 were Swarovski's (and dealers) best years ever.
Zeiss can't copy this concept as there is no predecessor of the SF and their market approach on the similar problem is different.
Jan
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GLOBETROTTER
Well-known member
I don't care about Globetrotters [increasingly] suspicious motive [why on earth did you need to buy such an expensive binocular if you were not satisfied with it!?!] but I do care that Zeiss seems to consider quality of build and design secondary to pushing sales. I'm not giving Zeiss a pass on this as I think any Zeiss bin. should be as well designed and optically equal or better than any other binocular available. I would hope Zeiss feel the same way!
James holdsworth.
Suspicious !!!!!! what a shame to hear this from you..............i am just an optics enthusiast who already have Several Zeiss collector models, I want Zeiss to be at the top again and produce the best of the best with innovation and top quality.
I would like to feel top class optics as i feel it with my oberkockens 10x50 designed almost 50 years ago, or my 10x40 BGAT.
I hear thinks like ´ now everything is cristal clear ´ what that its mean ? that i am here to destroy Zeiss reputation ?
Affinity or loyalty is what i have......because already owning an 8x ultravid model i went back to Zeiss again for a chance even if one year ago i already exchange a defective unit of HT for my ultravid.
Some people is asking why to keep it if you are not happy go for another brand, i already have another brand so easy, if difficult to understand ?????????????????????????????
I really believe the Zeiss propaganda that this model was designed and build as a truly masterpiece and its quality is so hight that you can keep it forever.........
Now i discover the spikes on bright stars and nobody believe me until kimmo REPORT THE SAME....................HALOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!
Also i report that the rubber armor start to be loose close to the central hinge, well now start to be loose close to the strap hold close to the eyecups......i will post some pictures.
New in forum not stupid...........even if i am from Spain, the land of siesta, sangria etc etc
James holdsworth.
Suspicious !!!!!! what a shame to hear this from you..............i am just an optics enthusiast who already have Several Zeiss collector models, I want Zeiss to be at the top again and produce the best of the best with innovation and top quality.
I would like to feel top class optics as i feel it with my oberkockens 10x50 designed almost 50 years ago, or my 10x40 BGAT.
I hear thinks like ´ now everything is cristal clear ´ what that its mean ? that i am here to destroy Zeiss reputation ?
Affinity or loyalty is what i have......because already owning an 8x ultravid model i went back to Zeiss again for a chance even if one year ago i already exchange a defective unit of HT for my ultravid.
Some people is asking why to keep it if you are not happy go for another brand, i already have another brand so easy, if difficult to understand ?????????????????????????????
I really believe the Zeiss propaganda that this model was designed and build as a truly masterpiece and its quality is so hight that you can keep it forever.........
Now i discover the spikes on bright stars and nobody believe me until kimmo REPORT THE SAME....................HALOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!
Also i report that the rubber armor start to be loose close to the central hinge, well now start to be loose close to the strap hold close to the eyecups......i will post some pictures.
New in forum not stupid...........even if i am from Spain, the land of siesta, sangria etc etc
Last edited:
It's an SF thread but since you complained...
We have three SV's and all have fully functioning, very precise focus mechanisms. Ah, the joy of ownership.
jan van daalen
Well-known member
jan van daalen
Well-known member
GT,
Let's start over.
When you put things out of proportion, like comparing the performance level of an SF with a 100 dollar chinbin, it's likely the jokes will fly around, since this is an open Forum.
A lot of what you have descrided is conform my findings but the way you describe it takes it completely (IMHO) out of context, while you probably mean well.
Jan
GLOBETROTTER
Well-known member
Some chinese 100€ roofs aré very sharp for Its price, and the diference with alphas aré not so huge........just sharpness, not talking about color balance, contrast, glare and flare resistance etc etc
I dint put anything out of contest.......Quality control at zeiss sport optiks is out of contest for a such price product.......
