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Gitzo "birdwatching" heads discontinued !

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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 18:41   #1
Alexis Powell
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Gitzo "birdwatching" heads discontinued !

I just noticed that the Gitzo "birdwatching" heads (GH1720QR and GH2720QR) appear to have been discontinued! They are no longer carried by B&H, Adorama, and some other vendors that I checked. I am a great fan of the GH1720 as the best ultralight and ultra-fast-to-operate scope head, and I'm sad to see it go because I'm not sure that it had any competition in its class. The similar in weight but poorly engineered and ridiculously expensive Swarovski DH-101 is also gone, so what does that leave? The Manfrotto 700RC2 is slightly heavier, not as stable, not as smooth, not compatible with sliding plates, and has separate locks for vertical and horizontal movement. It seems the new 2-way head (GHF2W) is suggested as a substitute replacement. It has nice features, but it is a slightly heavier and slower to operate head than the GH1720, as is the Sirui VA-5.

--AP
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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 19:02   #2
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Have a glance here:

The best 2-way I ever had, but 820 grams: https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=de...prache=english
Same quality, but only 700 grams: https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=de...prache=english

Difference: the 553 for up to 6kg load, the 510 for up to 5 kg load. But in my opinion these numbers are a understatement.

Both made in Germany. I use the 552, the predecessor of the 553, since many years. It works like at the first day. The 553 is a nice evolution of the 552.
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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 22:05   #3
Hermann
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I just noticed that the Gitzo "birdwatching" heads (GH1720QR and GH2720QR) appear to have been discontinued!
Yes, looks like it. They're discounted at some shops over here, and I'm thinking of getting a 1720 while they're still available. Not sure yet though, because there are two points I'm not clear on:

1. What's the weight without that funny pan bar? (I'm interested in that because I'll only get the 1720 if the weight difference to the Gitzo 2180 is large enough, and the 2180 is about 450 gr. without the pan bar.)

2. How does the 1720 work with a scope like the EDIII that is not very well balanced? (That's one of the advantages of the Gitzo 2180 - it works extremely well even with the EDIIIA.)

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Old Friday 17th May 2019, 03:12   #4
Alexis Powell
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...I'm thinking of getting a 1720 while they're still available. Not sure yet though, because there are two points I'm not clear on:

1. What's the weight without that funny pan bar? (I'm interested in that because I'll only get the 1720 if the weight difference to the Gitzo 2180 is large enough, and the 2180 is about 450 gr. without the pan bar.)...
Mine measures 331 g without the pan bar.

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...
2. How does the 1720 work with a scope like the EDIII that is not very well balanced? (That's one of the advantages of the Gitzo 2180 - it works extremely well even with the EDIIIA.)...
I frequently use mine with the Nikon 78ED, which is extremely front heavy. On the Gitzo medium length plate, I am able to position the scope over its center of gravity, so it ends up being very well balanced. This head allows for variable tension, so it can be set at an intermediate level for some scoping without always locking it down. That said, it does not have a counter-balance spring, and it is not really a _fluid_ head, so if the head is left loose and the scope is tilted far forward or back, the scope will flop forward or backward. I tend to use this head with my right hand on the pan handle and my left hand on the scope focus or head lock ring (which end up right beside each other).

As I noted before, I like this head as a super light but relatively robust single-control head. It is a nice alternative (much more stable, and compatible with sliding QR plates) to the old scope heads (that I never see used any more, that used to be available from B&L, Slik and others) that had no fluid (or even much in the way of variable tension) but which were very quick to use and locked with a sharp twist of the panning arm. If I want fluid action and spring counter balances etc, I use a heavier and more sophisticated head like the Sirui VH-10X.

--AP

Last edited by Alexis Powell : Friday 17th May 2019 at 03:15.
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Old Saturday 18th May 2019, 04:14   #5
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Mine measures 331 g without the pan bar.
Thanks. My 2180 is 466 gr without the bar, so the 1720 is still quite a bit lighter. Hm. I'll have to have a look the next time I get into town.

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I frequently use mine with the Nikon 78ED, which is extremely front heavy. On the Gitzo medium length plate, I am able to position the scope over its center of gravity, so it ends up being very well balanced. [...] That said, it does not have a counter-balance spring, and it is not really a _fluid_ head, so if the head is left loose and the scope is tilted far forward or back, the scope will flop forward or backward.
Good to hear. I was thinking mainly of using the 1720 in combination with a very light carbon tripod and the ED50 and possibly the EDIII because I usually use a Manfrotto 500AH for my ED82. But if the 1720 works with your ED78, it should work with all my scopes, making it more versatile than I thought.

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As I noted before, I like this head as a super light but relatively robust single-control head. It is a nice alternative (much more stable, and compatible with sliding QR plates) to the old scope heads (that I never see used any more, that used to be available from B&L, Slik and others) that had no fluid (or even much in the way of variable tension) but which were very quick to use and locked with a sharp twist of the panning arm.
I stopped using my old scope heads as soon as the first decent and reasonably light video heads appeared on the market. My first one was a Manfrotto 128, and it really was a game changer ... I don't use anything else nowadays, except for a RRS BH-25 in combination with a very light carbon fibre tripod and the ED50 as my ultralight setup.

Thanks for the information.

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Old Saturday 25th May 2019, 20:41   #6
Kevin Conville
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The Gitzo 1720 does look appealing but of the reviews I've read as many don't much like it as do. It's not a fluid head for starters. It's fairly pricey as well. I don't care too much for plates that utilize a pin for anti-twist, as in the Gitzo and Manfrotto designs. Arca plates are widely available in many configurations and finding one with a lip that catches the edge of the foot of the scope (for anti-twist) is simplicity itself.

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I stopped using my old scope heads as soon as the first decent and reasonably light video heads appeared on the market. My first one was a Manfrotto 128, and it really was a game changer ... I don't use anything else nowadays, except for a RRS BH-25 in combination with a very light carbon fibre tripod and the ED50 as my ultralight setup.
Hermann
I have two 3130s (same as 128) that I've modified and work brilliantly, though a bit heavier than the small Gitzo or it's replacement, but not much.

Manfrotto lists the 128's weight at 2.2 lbs. I don't know where that figure comes from as I have weighed it without the arm and it's clamp and it's 25oz.

I haven't found a head that has better action than the 128. It also comes apart easily and can be "tuned" with different viscosity grease. I've never had grease leak or migrate from where it is supposed to be either. It's biggest drawback, if one wants to characterize it that way, is it take two knobs to lock down. I find this latter issue pretty inconsequential as I only tighten down the pan knob, generally, when preparing to hoist it over my shoulder for transport.

Also Hermann, I'm totally there with the carbon tripod and small ballhead for using with an ED50. I use a 2.1 lb Benro tripod with a Markins Q3 ballhead and it is perfect for an angled ED50.

Here is my skeletonized "128" with double bolted* Arca clamp that comes in at 24oz. for the assembly.

*there is a second (8-32) screw that runs through the top of the head into a tapped hole in the Arca clamp for anti-twist and redundancy.
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Old Sunday 26th May 2019, 16:32   #7
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The Gitzo 1720 does look appealing but of the reviews I've read as many don't much like it as do. It's not a fluid head for starters. It's fairly pricey as well.
I actually checked it out in the meantime, and I decided against getting one. Sure, it's lighter than the Gitzo 2180, but not much. And the 2180 allows me to balance any scope, including the ED82, quite easily without using a long camera plate.

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I don't care too much for plates that utilize a pin for anti-twist, as in the Gitzo and Manfrotto designs. Arca plates are widely available in many configurations and finding one with a lip that catches the edge of the foot of the scope (for anti-twist) is simplicity itself.
I'm still not a big fan of the Arca system myself. When people started switching to it I had a go and found lots of problems with plates being incompatible to some clamps and so on. I still use the old Manfrotto system that uses the PL-200 plates. I normally peel off any rubber or cork on the plates and use them without the pin for anti-twist. No problems so far.

I know the Arca is better than it used to be when I tried it out many years ago. But the Manfrotto system has been working well for me for so many years I don't see any real reason to switch at the moment.

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I have two 3130s (same as 128) that I've modified and work brilliantly, though a bit heavier than the small Gitzo or it's replacement, but not much.

Manfrotto lists the 128's weight at 2.2 lbs. I don't know where that figure comes from as I have weighed it without the arm and it's clamp and it's 25oz.
That's interesting stuff. I also took off the arm straightaway but didn't modify the head any further. I like those heads quite a lot and only switched to the 2180 because it is quite a bit lighter. But I really like you other modifications. They should save still more weight. It that 25 oz after you modified the heads?

I've also got two of those heads somewhere, haven't used them for a long time. I think I'll get out the Dremel tool when I find the time and shave off some of that metal.

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Also Hermann, I'm totally there with the carbon tripod and small ballhead for using with an ED50. I use a 2.1 lb Benro tripod with a Markins Q3 ballhead and it is perfect for an angled ED50.
That's a great combination. I use a small carbon fibre Gitzo and the RRS BH-25 or, in case I also want to do some photography, an FLM CB-32 FII. That's a great ballhead, BTW. Heavier than the RRS for sure but it holds my DSLR with the 100-400mm no problem at all.

Thanks for those ideas. I'll see what I can do with my old Manfrotto 128s ...

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Old Sunday 26th May 2019, 19:22   #8
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I'm still not a big fan of the Arca system myself. When people started switching to it I had a go and found lots of problems with plates being incompatible to some clamps and so on.
I use screw type Arca clamps and indiscriminately choose among different makers of clamps and plates and have had no problems. Cam (lever) type clamps have potential for incompatibility.

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It that 25 oz after you modified the heads?

I've also got two of those heads somewhere, haven't used them for a long time. I think I'll get out the Dremel tool when I find the time and shave off some of that metal.
25oz w/o arm and arm clamp. 24 oz. after cutting head and fitting Arca clamp w/ plastic spacer.

If you're using Manfrotto plates then there is no cutting to be done. The cam lock and seat for the plate need to remain. Only the boss for the arm clamp can be removed.


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...FLM CB-32 FII. That's a great ballhead, BTW. Heavier than the RRS for sure but it holds my DSLR with the 100-400mm no problem at all.
The Markins Q3 also serves my DSLR w/ EF400 f5.6. It holds it rock solid with the lightest of force. Also a brilliant ballhead.
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Old Monday 27th May 2019, 00:41   #9
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The Gitzo 1720 does look appealing but of the reviews I've read as many don't much like it as do. It's not a fluid head for starters...
Yes, I think that users who don't like this head are disappointed that it lacks true fluid action, as you note. If not expecting fluid, I'm not sure what's not to like. With the single control for vertical and horizontal lock, it is super efficient. It operates very smoothly and it is a very rigid head. I like having a single control. Why are so few such heads available, and none of them except this Gitzo any good?

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...It's fairly pricey as well...
True. But I struggled with lesser heads. This one is very satisfying as it does its job very well.

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...I don't care too much for plates that utilize a pin for anti-twist, as in the Gitzo and Manfrotto designs. Arca plates are widely available in many configurations and finding one with a lip that catches the edge of the foot of the scope (for anti-twist) is simplicity itself...
What's wrong with pins? I like them fine as long as the scope foot has a hole to receive them and the pin is completely rigid (Stay away from the spring-loaded type, as found on some Manfrotto and Gitzo plates).

I also like Arca-type plates, and like you, I've had no problems with compatibility. Moreover, Arca plates can be used very smoothly in Manfrotto/Gitzo/Sirui clamps using a simple adapter--https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-Adapter-for-Arca-swiss-Camera-Quick-Release-Plate-to-GITZO-Tripod-Ballhead/192833703904?hash=item2ce5c8cfe0:g:LhAAAOSwd4tTwN2r--which I often do.

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...I have two 3130s (same as 128) that I've modified and work brilliantly, though a bit heavier than the small Gitzo or it's replacement, but not much...Manfrotto lists the 128's weight at 2.2 lbs. I don't know where that figure comes from as I have weighed it without the arm and it's clamp and it's 25oz...
A bit heavier? The Gitzo 1720 without arm is less than half that weight (i.e. it is under 12 oz)!

Some of the arms supplied with versions of the 128 and its older equivalents were _very heavy_, so perhaps that explains the weight spec. I like the 128 well enough--it was my main head for many many years--but ironically, it was the weight of that head on my first light-weight CF tripod that started my quest for a lighter head. Before I came to the Gitzo, I tried a lot of really crappy light-weight heads. The only one that worked well enough to be tolerated (for a while) was the Manfrotto 700RC2 (Really, a _horrible_ head compared to the Gitzo). Although the 700RC2 looks like a miniature 128, it doesn't work as well. Some failings are that the fluid action can't be dialed off completely (and can get _very stiff_ in cold, depending on the individual head, with _much_ variation among units), when the tension is low the head develops play (also a problem, though less so, with the 128), and it doesn't take sliding plates.

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...I haven't found a head that has better action than the 128. It also comes apart easily and can be "tuned" with different viscosity grease...
I like my Sirui VH-10X quite a bit better than the 128 even though it is in some ways less adjustable. I use the big Sirui when weight doesn't matter or is advantageous, and I have the Gitzo 1720 when I want to go light (and the RRS BH-25 on Velbon 455 with Nikon ED50 when I want to go super light). I've considered adding the Sirui VA-5 (which is Arca standard) as an in-between option, but so far I haven't found need.

Despite my argumentative stance, please know how much I appreciate your practical experience, no-nonsense evaluations, and solutions. What amazes me is that in this consumer wonderland, with so much design talent and precision manufacturing ability, is that so many heads are so bad. How to build the perfect light-weight birding head for scoping (and for cheap) is something that should have been figured out a long time ago, and we should have lots of competitive options. I don't feel that is the case.

--AP

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Old Monday 27th May 2019, 06:45   #10
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What amazes me is that in this consumer wonderland, with so much design talent and precision manufacturing ability, is that so many heads are so bad. How to build the perfect light-weight birding head for scoping (and for cheap) is something that should have been figured out a long time ago, and we should have lots of competitive options. I don't feel that is the case.
This is so true. In fact, I think Gitzo is just about the only manufacturer that developed a range of video heads explicitly for birding. Quite amazing, and the birding market isn't that small.

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Old Monday 27th May 2019, 15:18   #11
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This is so true. In fact, I think Gitzo is just about the only manufacturer that developed a range of video heads explicitly for birding. Quite amazing, and the birding market isn't that small.

Hermann
So why has Gitzo been motivated to discontinue this product? Perhaps the market is not as robust as the superficial numbers suggest.
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Old Monday 27th May 2019, 20:34   #12
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So why has Gitzo been motivated to discontinue this product? Perhaps the market is not as robust as the superficial numbers suggest.
Because they brought out a new head: https://www.manfrotto.de/gitzo-2-way-fluid-head. Uses the Arca Swiss system. From what I've seen it seems to be a very nice head. Similar in some ways to the older 2180 I'm using at the moment.

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Old Monday 27th May 2019, 20:47   #13
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The Gitzo 1720 does look appealing but of the reviews I've read as many don't much like it as do. It's not a fluid head for starters...
Alexis-
Yes, I think that users who don't like this head are disappointed that it lacks true fluid action, as you note. If not expecting fluid, I'm not sure what's not to like. With the single control for vertical and horizontal lock, it is super efficient. It operates very smoothly and it is a very rigid head. I like having a single control. Why are so few such heads available, and none of them except this Gitzo any good?


I've read what seemed like informed reviews of the 1720 somewhat criticizing the panning motion (in particular) for tracking birds. Some have indicated the head starts off smooth but loses that over time. Having done both still digiscoping and bird videography, and wanting to visually track birds in flight, I'm having reservations about the 1720 while considering your more positive experience.

Now that the head is discontinued it doesn't encourage me to want to take a chance with it as well. Service down the road and is there a replacement coming are questions I have.




...I don't care too much for plates that utilize a pin for anti-twist, as in the Gitzo and Manfrotto designs. Arca plates are widely available in many configurations and finding one with a lip that catches the edge of the foot of the scope (for anti-twist) is simplicity itself...
Alexis-
What's wrong with pins? I like them fine as long as the scope foot has a hole to receive them and the pin is completely rigid (Stay away from the spring-loaded type, as found on some Manfrotto and Gitzo plates).


The only things I have with holes for pins are two spotting scopes. I greatly prefer the universality of an Arca type system where anything can go on anything else.

I have 5 tripods, a parallelogram astro mount, 7 cameras, 2 spotting scopes, 4 binocular mounts, and a number of gizmos to hold reflective umbrellas and remote flash heads all utilizing Arca mounts. Anything can go on any of those tripods.

The pin type plate I'm most familiar with are the rectangular plates for the 128 head. In addition to the above there are a few things I don't like about that particular system. The pin is never a tight fit in the hole and slight shifting has/will occur. This may or may not bother other people. The plate itself fits into a slightly oversized recess and relies on a cam to hold it in place. A small amount of shifting can occur here as well. I used to force the cam lever beyond where the spring forced it's closure to get a more substantial level of contact with the head. This is more an issue when using these with a spotting scope and no arm as the scope is now the "arm" putting load on the mount.

I do recognize that the Gitzo (and newer Manfrotto) systems work more like an Arca clamp albeit with pins. Also the adapter you've mentioned can be used with the #1720, for example.



...I have two 3130s (same as 128) that I've modified and work brilliantly, though a bit heavier than the small Gitzo or it's replacement, but not much...Manfrotto lists the 128's weight at 2.2 lbs. I don't know where that figure comes from as I have weighed it without the arm and it's clamp and it's 25oz...
Alexis-
A bit heavier? The Gitzo 1720 without arm is less than half that weight (i.e. it is under 12 oz)!


Yeah, my bad.
I was using the published weights for the 1720 (16oz) and the 2180 (20 oz) and hadn't allowed for removal of the arm.



Alexis-
Despite my argumentative stance, please know how much I appreciate your practical experience, no-nonsense evaluations, and solutions. What amazes me is that in this consumer wonderland, with so much design talent and precision manufacturing ability, is that so many heads are so bad. How to build the perfect light-weight birding head for scoping (and for cheap) is something that should have been figured out a long time ago, and we should have lots of competitive options. I don't feel that is the case.


No problems. I enjoy a proper discussion.
I agree with your statement above about the void in this market by manufacturers and the reason I kind of went off on a bunny path about the 128 is because the "birding" Gitzos have been discontinued and their (relative) high cost. I don't mean to laud the 128/3130 as the be all to end all of spotting scope heads, it most certainly isn't that. What it is is an affordable, strong, very smooth (real) fluid head that has a long history of getting it done well, at the price of weight and two knobs. And to me still looks competitive with many newer heads from Manfrotto and other (Chinese) makers.

Who knows? Maybe Gitzo will come out with an improved version of a birding head that will satisfy most everyone.

Cheers
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