Owners: How Are Your Leica Noctivids Serving You?! (6 Viewers)

Gijs van Ginkel · Jul 10, 2017

Martin, post 119,
In the Netherlands the Noctivids cost almost 3000 euros and if you want to read a test report that is not technical at all: look at the WEB-site of House of Outdoor under "verrekijkers"and "verrekijkers testen en vergelijken", and, more important try one yourself in comparison with other binoculars before you decide to spend an impressive amount of money.
Gijs van Ginkel

Troubador · Jul 10, 2017

Torview said:
I thought this forum was for purely "amateur technical conjecture", is`nt discussing our likes, dislikes and impressions why we visit here ?

John

This is one very important reason why I visit here but I would gently object to your word 'purely' as we surely don't mind serving or retired professionals giving their opinions too.
Lee

elkcub · Jul 10, 2017

PeterPS said:
Ed:

I agree with you that any meaningful test should be based on rigorous sampling and careful statistical analysis, but what do you say when a randomly selected sample gets water inside after a simple dip in a bucket of water? I would say that's not a good sign, and I recall that Leica sent Allbinos an explanatory note that ....did no explain at all why that happened.

Peter.

Peter,

That's exactly the problem with drawing population conclusions from a sample of size n=1. Basically, you can't do it.

Holger Merlitz said that Leica did a binopsy on the Allbinos sample and found the valve seals leaked. That's the equivalent of Schrader valves leaking on two different sized auto tires.

Make of it what one will, — a mountain or a mole hill.

Ed

Troubador · Jul 10, 2017

PeterPS said:
Ed:

I agree with you that any meaningful test should be based on rigorous sampling and careful statistical analysis, but what do you say when a randomly selected sample gets water inside after a simple dip in a bucket of water? I would say that's not a good sign, and I recall that Leica sent Allbinos an explanatory note that ....did no explain at all why that happened.

Peter.

This example is surely an anomaly, an aberration, considering the number of Leicas out there (thousands) and the number of complaints on Bird Forum about leaky Leicas (none?).

There is certainly not a steady stream of folks complaining about leaks in fact I can't recall any since I started visiting this forum in May 2012.

For sure Leica should feel embarrassed but lets keep things in perpective.

Lee

Iceberg slim · Jul 10, 2017

PeterPS said:
Martin:

I agree with you that it is how it performs in your hands that counts, but vague statements such as the one above tell me nothing: I have no idea which other binos you have looked through, nor do I know what's your definition of "the best". IMO a few "technical details" are often useful.

Peter.

PS. I almost forgot: regarding technical details you could simply say that you would dive into them "If you had but the time and we had but the brain".

I'd suggest you look through some of the threads ( on noctivids) or my previous posts, and you'll find they are not so vague!!!!!

post 786 onwards in the {New binoculars from leica} thread

Iceberg slim · Jul 10, 2017

Gijs van Ginkel said:
Martin, post 119,
In the Netherlands the Noctivids cost almost 3000 euros and if you want to read a test report that is not technical at all: look at the WEB-site of House of Outdoor under "verrekijkers"and "verrekijkers testen en vergelijken", and, more important try one yourself in comparison with other binoculars before you decide to spend an impressive amount of money.
Gijs van Ginkel

The same for you do a bit of prior research on my previous posts or noctivid threads!!!
post 786 onwards in the {New binoculars from leica} thread

PeterPS · Jul 10, 2017

This example is surely an anomaly, an aberration, considering the number of Leicas out there (thousands) and the number of complaints on Bird Forum about leaky Leicas (none?).

There is certainly not a steady stream of folks complaining about leaks in fact I can't recall any since I started visiting this forum in May 2012.

Me neither, on the other hand how many people test their binos to see if they are waterproof? I would guess very few if any (I mean a real waterproofing test, not just using the binos in the rain).

Of course I agree with both you (Lee) and Ed that conclusions based on one sample are not reliable (even if I believe that Allbinos tested at least 2 binos and found that both were defective), but no company has the resources to test, say, 1000 binos, with the exception of the manufacturer.

Torview · Jul 10, 2017

I`m not that bothered if the binos actually pass a test for waterproofing, I`d much rather they were fixed promptly and for free by the manufacturer if water found its way inside.

PeterPS · Jul 10, 2017

I'd suggest you look through some of the threads ( on noctivids) or my previous posts, and you'll find they are not so vague

I have read your impressions about the NVs when you posted them---the only thing that I remember is that you said you like them very much, which is also what you said in the post above in which you also said that a technical discussion is "unnecessary clutter" for you.

Loud Green Man · Jul 10, 2017

Perhaps all manufacturers should dump the waterproof claim and amend it to convey their three-season rainproof qualities only?

Even the simple 18" bucket test applies considerable pressure to primary seals that will never be encountered by a binocular during even the most generous (30-year) warranty period and that would allow for exposing to a weekly thunderstorm.

Just my view as a Wildlife Ranger.

LGM

Iceberg slim · Jul 10, 2017

PeterPS said:
I have read your impressions about the NVs when you posted them---the only thing that I remember is that you said you like them very much, which is also what you said in the post above in which you also said that a technical discussion is "unnecessary clutter" for you.

Then you should look at what Bins i have owned as a comparison, i would never post "oh i just popped 2k on a pair of bins", if wasn't sure what was buying against, and really thought they were better than anything i have previously owned....:smoke:

Alainde · Jul 11, 2017

Leica Noctivid 8x42 demo in the Netherlands nice price!

Leica Noctivid 8x42 demo link https://link.marktplaats.nl/m1179056773 👍🏼

PeterPS · Jul 11, 2017

It seems to be a hybrid between NV and GV:

"Vergroting : 8 tot 12x"

SuperDuty · Jul 11, 2017

Atkinson still gives his measurements every month, interesting, but still doesn't tell you how a particular component will interact with your ears or listening space. I moved on from my LP12 to a full digital rig with no ill effect, moved from the Porro Prism to the SF and haven't missed a thing, you just have to figure out which distortions you enjoy the most. :-O

henry link said:
Agreed.

I don't have enough interest in audio anymore to read audiophile magazines, but I recall that "Stereophile" used to have a lab guy named John Atkinson who tested equipment and presented his results alongside the subjective reviews. Sometimes loudspeakers with wildly inaccurate measured frequency response would get the highest praise from the subjective reviewer. The fault lines were similar to what we have here, but I recall that the battles between subjective and objective audio reviewers were more bitterly contentious in those days and probably still are. Believe it or not I fought on the Subjective side in that war.

It all brings to mind Sayre's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre's_law

Henry

Rathaus · Jul 11, 2017

SuperDuty said:
you just have to figure out which distortions you enjoy the most. :-O

How true that is! I've become a tube roller and I love the sound of valves, regardless of (or perhaps due to) their play in distortion.

I remember listening live to the adulterated sounds of the LSO and the Concertgebouw and I can recall my realisation that if Atkinson and co were also listening live but were 'blind listeners', they would no doubt write pages upon pages lambasting the various technical flaws and deficiencies in the sound :-O

SuperDuty · Jul 11, 2017

Tube distortion is a beautiful thing. :t: B

Troubador · Jul 12, 2017

SuperDuty said:
Atkinson still gives his measurements every month, interesting, but still doesn't tell you how a particular component will interact with your ears or listening space. I moved on from my LP12 to a full digital rig with no ill effect, moved from the Porro Prism to the SF and haven't missed a thing, you just have to figure out which distortions you enjoy the most. :-O

A Fender Telecaster through a Fender Champ 12 with just enough gain to break-up when I dig in but will clean up if I back off the volume on the guitar. If I want to make my eyes water and wake up the neighbours and Marshall Guv'nor pedal does the trick.

Lee

Mike F · Jul 12, 2017

What is it with Hi-Fi and bins? I used to be an avid reader of 'Hi-Fi Choice'. Roksan Xerxes and a quite rare Marantz CD12 and DA12 LE, Mark Levinson No.38 and ATC SCM100ASL's here (plus other assorted analogue and digital goodies like a Nakamichi Dragon!). And I'm a professional musician! Perhaps we should all book into the same clinic!

SuperDuty · Jul 12, 2017

I had a full Linn-Naim system in the 80's.

Theo98 · Jul 12, 2017

Mike F said:
What is it with Hi-Fi and bins?

An appreciation and love for Fidelity in our Tunes and our Tubes!

Ted

Owners: How Are Your Leica Noctivids Serving You?! (6 Viewers)

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