How far do birders walk? (1 Viewer)

temmie;3853666[B said:

]I have walked Gunung Gede (2958 MASL) on Java up and down in a day, [/B]that is around 20 kms and 1700 meters up (and obviously down) in a day.
I have also walked from a bit east from the abra de Portachuelo (4700 MASL) beyond the Lagunas de Llanguanuco (3800 MASL) in central Peru, because we couldn't find a single vehicle to take us down to Yungay, until well after dark a truck finally passed by! That was around 35 kms with sideway birding walks included, at an average altitude of more than 4000 meters. Breathtaking landscapes included!
During lowland birding / flatland birding, I often do around 30.000 steps a day. This would be around 30km if hiking, but ofcourse, while birding, you sometimes take small steps or just move a bit on the spot.

I only do this when I have to, because you obviously walk past good birds during such walks...
But sometimes, you are better up the mountain at first light for e.g. parakeets (Santa Marta), Volcano Swiftlet (Gede), striped babblers (Philippines). And if there is no road going there, you start at 3-4 in the morning and at first light you often have walked 10kms and done something around 750 vertical meters. The last couple of years, more and more rental cars are involved in my birding, and sadly, it takes away some of the walking. But I try to do as much walking as possible (and necessary) because it's a good way to keep you fit.

I am already looking forward to walk towards some Striped Babblers, Sillem's Mountain-finch, Snow Mountain Robin,...

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You're going some to average 1m strides unless you're very tall?

Altitude is different to walking on the level as there are birds up there that unless you go there, you won't see them.

Gunung Gede isn't a tough walk, I think the SM Robin is almost as tough as it gets though from what I've read.

Chosun Juan said:

One of the fondest memories of my life was walking through the Himalayas completely alone without another human being in sight in any direction to the horizon, and enveloped in complete silence ..... :t:
Chosun :gh:

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I'm just back home after a six-hour birding (would have been shorter if the snow hadn't covered the track that I've only done once, 9 years ago!) morning here in a 'popular' area of the Alps and had a similar human-free walk, birds of quality not quantity with just 32 species seen or heard and close encounters with Chamois, Marmot, Ibex and Brown Hare too - bliss:t:
Not silent as there was plenty of birdsong, which unfortunately didn't include that elusive Rock Partridge:C

Chosun Juan said:

What a sad development for the human race ....... :-C
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/world/asia/mount-everest-deaths.amp.html

One of the fondest memories of my life was walking through the Himalayas completely alone without another human being in sight in any direction to the horizon, and enveloped in complete silence ..... :t:




Chosun :gh:

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When were you there and on which trek?

We were late in the season (Jomson and Annapurna), mid December and though numbers were well down from the peak, there were still plenty of people around and we weren't alone very often if at all.

andyadcock said:

When were you there and on which trek?

We were late in the season (Jomson and Annapurna), mid December and though numbers were well down from the peak, there were still plenty of people around and we weren't alone very often if at all.

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I was there in '95 for 2 months Dec and Jan. About a month around Everest region with 3 friends (flew in to Lukla on a leaky [fuel line - inside !] orange Sirkorsky and walked from there). Had a buffalo steak on the first night and woke up with a stomach like I was 9 months pregnant ! Didn't eat any meat after that but a bit of chicken here and there - lost 15 kilos ! :eek!: came back with an 8 pack !

Beautiful mountains and people. Memorable for nearly dying of AMS, hallucinogenic visions, lammergeiers the size of Cessna's (that probably kicked off my love of raptors in earnest then , and the 3 Americans who hadn't washed in 3 months who stayed at the same 'lodge' (someone's house with 30 people in it !) as us at Gorak Shep after the entire village below was wiped out in an Avalanche - jeezas ! The stink !! :eek!:

Saw an avalanche go off on Everest - and the 'explosion' was that loud I thought the Pakis were shelling us ! :eek!:

Also saw the wonderful Sherpas rescue a 95kg woman and carry her down icy tracks for miles and miles. Huge party when they came back to the village late at night - much singing and dancing ! The kids loved it as they re-enacted the rescue ! o

Then went over to the Annapurna region by myself - on a very tight schedule - trekked long days - that's where I experienced the solitude and felt Mother Nature's arms around me - up near Jarkot or Kag Beni I think .... took a wrong turn one day and nearly ended up in Tibet ! There were a few trekkers along the way but none could keep up with me.

Memorable for wandering into a high village one night at about 9pm (after trekking toward that distant sight all day and into sunset). Having 3 dozen kids gather around me like I was Gulliver ! Stayed with a family watching Bollywood films on a black and white TV with Nepalese sub-titles ..... they were thoroughly amazed when I told them the exact plot just before it unfolded at each step despite not understanding either language ! Haha clichéd plot lines ! :-O

Beautiful country - I believe there's sealed roads reaching way up into the mountains now which is really really sad ....... :-C

Also went to Royal Chitwan and nearly got charged by a Rhino, and eaten by Crocs, and a Tiger. Had a Leopard jump onto the grass roof of my hut in a village one night - holy sh*t have you ever tried to stop your own heart from beating because the noise was deafening !! :eek!:

Didn't feel the need to travel for 15 years after that - best holiday in the world ! :king: Would like to see the Gaudi church in Spain one day though :t:





Chosun :gh:

I'm sure there are numerous occasions when I've walked all day between birding sites, in some cases while birding along the way. And other times when it's taken all day to walk to a birding site and back. These tend to be places where you think of distance in time rather than kilometres.

It often depends if there is lots of birds around. If there is a lot of birds I walk maybe 2ish hours if not many or not a lot movement maybe a hour or half hour.

andyadcock said:

You're going some to average 1m strides unless you're very tall?

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I searched a bit and the average will be around 0.7m / step if hiking it seems, so 30.000 steps will correspond to a distance around 21 km, instead of the 30 km I mentioned. :t:

Interesting replies, thank you. I suspect that it's pointless to have walks much over a couple of miles (c5 km) in a realistic, practical birding site guide particularly ones that require any strenuous walking as very few people would walk much further. It's slightly different perhaps when covering your 'patch' or when your focus is as much about enjoying the wider countryside and what it has to offer as it is to see desired birds.

I usually bird for 2 hrs on patch - but rarely cover more than 3 miles, usually 2, in that time.

On a birding trip abroad I tend to be out dawn to dusk, and even then would usually not cover more than 8 miles - Gunung Gede was an exception though.

John Cantelo said:

Interesting replies, thank you. I suspect that it's pointless to have walks much over a couple of miles (c5 km) in a realistic, practical birding site guide particularly ones that require any strenuous walking as very few people would walk much further. It's slightly different perhaps when covering your 'patch' or when your focus is as much about enjoying the wider countryside and what it has to offer as it is to see desired birds.

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I'm not sure that's entirely true, John (one size rarely fits all). The important thing about a regional site guide is that it must cover all the species that people will want to try to see in the region, including the difficult key ones. You can't leave out e.g. Ptarmigan because for the most part strenuous long hikes may be needed to see it, though in practice chairlift to Cairnwell (if its running, a stiff steep walk if not), railway thing to Cairn Gorm (but limited access to tops if using this) and car up the Pass of the Cattle should reduce the walking for this species. I imagine the easiest alternative to the above would be a walk up to the Cairn Gorm North corries - how long is that? For key species you must have at least one site, of whatever difficulty, to enable the full suite of species to be found by the enthusiast/obsessional.

Otherwise I agree with you. For Cresties, for instance, I would be unlikely to take a long walk through Abernethy, preferring a few short sharp hits on LGRSPB Centre and the short walk towards Loch Mallachie from the other car park, repeating as necessary. Its about effective use of time really. But that sort of situation is very different from patch birding or visiting a place you know well - how I bird Pennington Marshes might be very different from how an overseas visitor on a single visit might approach it.

John

andyadcock said:

Not in the Himalayas you wouldn't!

We averaged 12km per day over 5 weeks and covered 350km in very tough, steep up, steep down, terrain including passing over the Thorong La pass at 5400m, toughest birding I've ever done.

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I did the Thorung La in 1982 and my focus was definitely on putting one foot in front of the other rather than birding unfortunately, don't remember seeing any high altitude specialities - although I do recall white-browed tit-warbler in the valley near Manang as a highlight of my trek.

I think this thread illustrates that there are clearly different philosophies displayed here between the 'walkers' and the 'sit and waiters'. The ideal is probably a mix of both, although I don't think I've reached a happy medium yet between a decent walk and the patient sitting and waiting you need to see stuff. I do worry that since I've got more into birding I'm doing less walking, certainly much less than 20km / day, which isn't great for fitness levels or waistline!

Farnboro John said:

I'm not sure that's entirely true, John (one size rarely fits all). The important thing about a regional site guide is that it must cover all the species that people will want to try to see in the region, including the difficult key ones. You can't leave out e.g. Ptarmigan because for the most part strenuous long hikes may be needed to see it, though in practice chairlift to Cairnwell (if its running, a stiff steep walk if not), railway thing to Cairn Gorm (but limited access to tops if using this) and car up the Pass of the Cattle should reduce the walking for this species. I imagine the easiest alternative to the above would be a walk up to the Cairn Gorm North corries - how long is that? For key species you must have at least one site, of whatever difficulty, to enable the full suite of species to be found by the enthusiast/obsessional.

Otherwise I agree with you. For Cresties, for instance, I would be unlikely to take a long walk through Abernethy, preferring a few short sharp hits on LGRSPB Centre and the short walk towards Loch Mallachie from the other car park, repeating as necessary. Its about effective use of time really. But that sort of situation is very different from patch birding or visiting a place you know well - how I bird Pennington Marshes might be very different from how an overseas visitor on a single visit might approach it.

John

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Also, think of the Gosney guides.. i don't remember any of them involving massive walks, for any species. Ptarmigan is probably one of the toughest, but vertically rather than in miles. Carn Ban Mor, I don't even remember having to resort to my inhaler, as I disappeared into cloud!! Although I do recall leaving some of my gear halfway up the mountain, to collect on the way back down!

In a European context, I suspect as you go East, other species could involve far greater walks, thinking Snowy Owl perhaps, if a site/area was known.

I like the idea of longer birding walks. Norfolk coast, Islands, Purbecks. There is potential to stumble across unseen birds. Time almost always ruins these plans though.

kb57 said:

I did the Thorung La in 1982 and my focus was definitely on putting one foot in front of the other rather than birding unfortunately, don't remember seeing any high altitude specialities - although I do recall white-browed tit-warbler in the valley near Manang as a highlight of my trek.

I think this thread illustrates that there are clearly different philosophies displayed here between the 'walkers' and the 'sit and waiters'. The ideal is probably a mix of both, although I don't think I've reached a happy medium yet between a decent walk and the patient sitting and waiting you need to see stuff. I do worry that since I've got more into birding I'm doing less walking, certainly much less than 20km / day, which isn't great for fitness levels or waistline!

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We had Tibetan Snowcock just below the pass as we headed up.

ust across the vallet from Manang, is a very steep, amost vertical climb to a small area with a pool and we had Himalaya Snowcock there. This is a known spot where my mate has had them before.

peter.jones said:

Also, think of the Gosney guides.. i don't remember any of them involving massive walks, for any species. Ptarmigan is probably one of the toughest, but vertically rather than in miles. Carn Ban Mor, I don't even remember having to resort to my inhaler, as I disappeared into cloud!! Although I do recall leaving some of my gear halfway up the mountain, to collect on the way back down!

In a European context, I suspect as you go East, other species could involve far greater walks, thinking Snowy Owl perhaps, if a site/area was known.

I like the idea of longer birding walks. Norfolk coast, Islands, Purbecks. There is potential to stumble across unseen birds. Time almost always ruins these plans though.

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Why don't you just view them from the car park below Glenshee ski lift?

I mean it just depends on whether you like to hike or not, doesn't it? It wold probably not do a 20km hike for "birding purposes" on Mallorca from all places, simply because there is not much to see. But for example in Taman Negara, long full-day hikes bring you some of the greatest birding in the world ... and it's quite fun as well!

I find it actually quite unfortunate how much do guidebooks focus on places that are accessible by car these days, I would gladly do a "hike with a reward" for some species, but having knowledge of drive-by locations can be quite discouraging.

andyadcock said:

Why don't you just view them from the car park below Glenshee ski lift?

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Because.....

Ptarmigan X 5:

Cairn Gorm Northern Corries X 2
Cairnwell top X 3 (2 occasions involved)

John :t:

andyadcock said:

Why don't you just view them from the car park below Glenshee ski lift?

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There you go. You barely need to get out of the car for Ptarmigan.

But as opposed to convenience, (and I think this is the other side of the argument, that I'm hearing from others on here). If I'd driven 1 hour further from my B&B, parked the car, and watched Ptarmigan, would it have been as satisfying or memorable as climbing a mountain, literally walking into cloud, and finally almost bumping into them, whilst not seeing another soul on a bank holiday Monday?

(Edit: Nice pics John, jeez, it took me 17 minutes to type this!)

Farnboro John said:

Because.....

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Good answer and lovely pics to back it up.

I'll put in as much effort as it takes to see what I want to see in the place I want to see it.

Today I walked a modest 12 km to see all four species of auk that breed in the UK (I've seen them countless times before but that's the sort of thing I want to see). Yesterday I managed to see well over 300 Manx Shearwaters without even getting out of my car. Some years ago I paddled my sea kayak 75 km over three days to spend a night on an uninhabited island amongst European Storm Petrels and Manx Shearwaters (that wasn't the sole purpose of the trip but it was the main one). Other times I'm happy to trail just 2 or 3 km around a reserve.

If I can see the birds without getting out of the car that's great, but I'm happy to make a bit of effort if necessary. As long as I still have a body that doesn't complain too much about a bit of exercise I'll keep walking and kayaking as far as it takes. There's usually a lot more to see on the walk or paddle than just birds.

andyadcock said:

We had Tibetan Snowcock just below the pass as we headed up.

ust across the vallet from Manang, is a very steep, amost vertical climb to a small area with a pool and we had Himalaya Snowcock there. This is a known spot where my mate has had them before.

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Wish I'd been a bit more observant at the time - didn't see a snowcock at all on my travels. We did come across the dead body of a Japanese trekker just before the pass, which didn't encourage us to linger.

I think I know where you mean at Manang too, there was a glacier on the opposite side of the valley - my then-wife and I tried climbing up the very steep terminal moraine while we had a day off acclimatising before the pass, but she persuaded me to give up before we'd got to where I presume a lake would be (although I think it was still ice in 1982!).

20km is a good length for an all-day hike in hilly terrain, but it doesn't leave a whole lot of time for bird-watching. A comfortable walk on steep terrain, with lunch break, may average 2km/h; make stops for birds and you're closer to 1.5km/h. So almost 15 hours to complete the hike?


I've done 50km days in the mountains, but on those days I've not stopped for birds nor carried a big lens.