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Ivorybill Searcher's Forum: Insights and current reports (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fangsheath
- Start date
fangsheath
Well-known member
I'd be careful about venturing out this afternoon, Mike, you are on the edge of the moderate risk zone for severe storms. Could be good for bringing the water levels back up this week though.
Sorry to post this here, but I seem to have deleted some correspondence about Mike's DVD while cleaning my inbox. I've sent DVDs to all people from whom I have received payment. There is one forum member from Pennsylvania whose screenname I have lost. That DVD went out today.
If you had taken the time to read the other forum -- on which I am no longer posting because I don't want to participate in the kind of unpleasantness of which your post is an example -- I made it very clear that I am doing this as a service and what the cost would be. As it turns out, I am not even covering my expenses.
Steve said:
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GreatHornedOwl
Grumpy Armchair Birder
fangsheath said:
That's interesting video material, thanks. I'm not an expert, never saw a Pileated wp let alone an Ivorybill (that would be the day !), only very interested and intrigued by IBWP and read all the best books about it (Tanner, Jackson, ...), but for what it's worth I'll give you my impressions here :
- the creature in the video must be a woodpecker, judging by the way it perches on the tree. That's fairly simple to see.
- this clearly shows a large crowsize bird with rather long erect crest - was the bird alarmed ? - judging from all photos and pictures I saw of Pileated wp this species has a much shorter crest, and of different form when erect. 3-D pictures of mounted specimens of IBWP's on the Dutch Naturalis Museum website show a crest of the same length and volume although not erect. There's a still on that Fish crow website where you also get the impression of a light coloured eye.
- the bird holds out it's head in what seems a 45 degree angle, on an outstretched neck - as if it's alarmed (the way the crest is erect seems to suggest that also). I must admit that looks like many ill. I have seen of Ivorybills.
- what struck me most, aside from the outstretched neck and large crest, which reminded me strongly of pictures of south american Campehilus species I saw, was the way it MOVES - very fluid, swooping, vigourous, fast ... very fluid in any case; question is : do Dryocopus woodpeckers move about a tree like that ?
Look here for the 3-D moving images of stuffed IBWP specimens, and look at the length of that crest, and compare to the bird in the video's:
http://ip30.eti.uva.nl/naturalis/detail?lang=uk&id=54
http://ip30.eti.uva.nl/naturalis/detail?lang=uk&id=53
I think, for what it's worth, that you should further seriously investigate - if that video is not, fe., recently discovered footage shot by Tanner et al. in the 1930ies (just trying to be objective here, I'm not accusing !!), and if it's really shot in february 2006, then it might well turn out to that a living Ivorybill is hitching up the trees there in the Pearl.
I hope this was useful to you,
Cheers
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Curtis Croulet
Well-known member
GreatHornedOwl said:
Hmm. I thought one of the notable characteristics of the Ivory-bill was its exaggerated, almost comically jerky movements, and certainly this is -- to my eyes -- borne out by the Allen film from 1935.
Due to size constraints, the posted version of the first sequence is very short. The bird does make some strange movements while perched in other parts of the video. Now that I have software that allows me to crop, I will post a longer sequence of the bird when perched. I will be interested to hear what you think about it.Curtis Croulet said:
Curtis Croulet
Well-known member
cinclodes said:
Mike, I've tried to avoid saying much about your video, because I keep hoping (and I know this sounds ungrateful) that you'll get something better. I have the feeling that there's a lot about this bird that you saw visually that isn't visible on the video.
fangsheath
Well-known member
Actually, I think it's important to understand something about Mike's video, because it isn't apparent in the cropped versions I have created. Mike flushed a large woodpecker with white on the trailing edges of its wings from near the riverbank. The bird flew back into the woods. Then he heard unusual calls emanating from the area and started videotaping. He spied movement and zoomed into the area. However, it is apparent watching the DVD that Mike could not clearly see the bird, let alone determine its characteristics. In fact the bird spends as much time out of the frame as in. He never even saw the bird through his binoculars while he was videotaping. It is quite fortunate that he got as much on video as he did.
AmpelisChinito
Cedar Waxwing Chairman
cinclodes said:
I'm not singling you out cinclodes, but everyone is saying this is an IvoryBill, but I've yet to see any evidence. I've looked at all the frames, and none are conclusive. I think everyone wants this to be an IvoryBill badly enough that it is impairing your better judgement. If there is a frame with conclusive evidence, then I missed it. If you are thinking about the frames which show white on the wings when he is flying, the wings would be flapping so fast, if it were a pileated, that they would be blurred and would mix with the white background, and also the light is glowing through, so you can't really determine any definite color, and that's why I think it shows white wings. All I want to see is a frame in which the bird is perched and it shows strong colored white trianlges on the wings. This is probably just a bad case of Ivory-billed Woodpecker fever.
humminbird
Well-known member
AmpelisChinito said:
I have never had any trouble finding the black trailing edge on a Pileated wing in the field. If I can find it with bins then the camera is going to find it.
And why did this phenomena not show in the recreation attempts undertaken by CLO?
Mark
AmpelisChinito
Cedar Waxwing Chairman
humminbird said:
Correct, but he was so far away, his eyes could have seen something different than the actual light given off. I also am looking at it and see the bird perched, with all black wings.
Another thing, he has seen this species aprox. 13 times. I don't understand why this is the best footage he can show for it.
humminbird
Well-known member
AmpelisChinito said:
I'm afraid our eyes disagree there - I see white on the perched birds wings.
While his eyes could have seen something different, the camera would not unless you can explain some physics I am unaware of.
AmpelisChinito
Cedar Waxwing Chairman
Can you point out a specific frame on one of the videos? Thanks.
I fear you're getting a bit off topic here, and given some of the heat surrounding this issue, I'm a little wary of your intentions. Your assertion of yesterday to the effect that the bird is 'obviously a pileated' also gives me pause. You seem to have backed off of that a bit today; now you say there's nothing "conclusive". You're new to this thread, so I will accept that you're making these statements in good faith.
So to respond: there is nothing that I've seen in the video that suggests a pileated to me. The posture of the bird, the shape of the crest in most frames, wingspan, general morphology, manner of flight, and wingbeat rate all seem inconsistent with a PIWO. To reiterate, I did a blind test with my wife, and she immediately distinguished the purported IBWO from the birds in the other videos. I think this non-afficionado (and at least somewhat disinterested) ability to distinguish is highly significant, and one other poster had the identical experience with someone not so close to the discussion.
As to color, the quality of the video is simply too poor for me to make any judgments about it, at least when the bird is perched. Earlier on, I thought I saw white in some frames. I haven't clicked through those frames in a couple of weeks, and I can't be certain that the white was not an artifact of glare or the surroundings; however, I do see a white trailing edge on one in flight frame, quite clearly. Fangsheath, who knows his way around a computer far better than I do, has addressed your earlier comments about color.
I suggest you read the fishcrow site carefully, and also n.b. fangsheath's post above, both of which address some of your comments about the quality of the video and why it's so hard to get. If you care to wade through the ugliness of the other thread, it might shed a little more light as well.
If you'd like to respond specifically to the wing structure, wingbeat rate, and range of motion in flight issues that were discussed upthread, that would be interesting. These are all quite compelling IMHO.
So to respond: there is nothing that I've seen in the video that suggests a pileated to me. The posture of the bird, the shape of the crest in most frames, wingspan, general morphology, manner of flight, and wingbeat rate all seem inconsistent with a PIWO. To reiterate, I did a blind test with my wife, and she immediately distinguished the purported IBWO from the birds in the other videos. I think this non-afficionado (and at least somewhat disinterested) ability to distinguish is highly significant, and one other poster had the identical experience with someone not so close to the discussion.
As to color, the quality of the video is simply too poor for me to make any judgments about it, at least when the bird is perched. Earlier on, I thought I saw white in some frames. I haven't clicked through those frames in a couple of weeks, and I can't be certain that the white was not an artifact of glare or the surroundings; however, I do see a white trailing edge on one in flight frame, quite clearly. Fangsheath, who knows his way around a computer far better than I do, has addressed your earlier comments about color.
I suggest you read the fishcrow site carefully, and also n.b. fangsheath's post above, both of which address some of your comments about the quality of the video and why it's so hard to get. If you care to wade through the ugliness of the other thread, it might shed a little more light as well.
If you'd like to respond specifically to the wing structure, wingbeat rate, and range of motion in flight issues that were discussed upthread, that would be interesting. These are all quite compelling IMHO.
AmpelisChinito said:
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humminbird
Well-known member
Unfortunately, the machine I am stuck with for the next couple of days will not allow me to walk through frame by frame - something that I have done with another machine and did find the white on the wings. That is what stood out most to me when I first saw the footage.
AmpelisChinito said:
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