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Difference between 200- and 800-€ binoculars (1 Viewer)

Hi,

I do not understand?!

Why go back, high quality binoculars can be used for decades if you treat them well!
In addition, one should not forget the mostly better service provided by the renowned manufacturer!
There is no law that you have to go back at some point.;)

Andreas

Hi Andreas, these things can happen, and instances are often narrated on this forum.

You have a binocular of very good or excellent optical quality. Then you find:
- You need a different magnification. Higher for easier detail. Lower for more steadiness, or more FoV...
- It is too dim in certain conditions, so you need a wider objective.
- Something is not right for you in its ergonomics. The balance, or weight, or length...
- Etc...

At this time you cannot afford to supplement, or replace, it with another model of that optical quality.

Etc...

Then you face that situation.

Last year I wanted a 7x42. I was fired up by the possibilty of a new or "mint" Leica Ultravd-Plus at a certain price. It did not happen, I don't remember why, I think the info. I received was incorrect, whatever. I needed to make the purchase then and from that country. An Opticron Discovery was the next choice (it was a fraction of the price). The difference in image quality from the "alphas" and "near-alphas" I had used was too much for me. Yesterday I gave it away to be sold.
 
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Yes, if you can comfortably afford top end binos, then why not, I fully trust the experts here that there is a difference and the money is not wasted.

They have sufficient quality binoculars already... large sums of money for marginal improvement...

what now?

Just because the questioner may be a young person does not mean that he does not have the money for high-quality binoculars, not all of the youth are impoverished!
In addition, this is not a financial forum where you first check the financial assets of a questioner and educational advice would probably not make sense either!
A car that costs tens of thousands is something else than binoculars, that is apples and pears ...

Andreas
 
Hi Andreas, these things can happen, and instances are often narrated on this forum.

You have a binocular of very good or excellent optical quality. Then you find:
- You need a different magnification. Higher for easier detail. Lower for more steadiness, or more FoV...
- It is too dim in certain conditions, so you need a wider objective.
- Something is not right for you in its ergonomics. The balance, or weight, or length...
- Etc...

At this time you cannot afford to supplement, or replace, it with another model of that optical quality.

Etc...

Hello adhoc,

You are reading too many articles by Dennis ...:king:

Andreas
 
No it won't. They have sufficient quality binoculars already. And if it is indeed a teenager, then the idea of spending large sums of money for marginal improvement is one of the worst things to teach them, as that's how we got the current financially illiterate generation, running around in expensive cars that they don't need but they bought on loan because of a vague feeling that that's "good life".

With due respect you are hijacking and going way off the thread - insurance / teenagers spending their money / loans. None of which is relevant or necessary or really any of your business.

The poster has made the request, not us, in regards to upgrading their binoculars, why not just help them and get off your soapbox? If you cannot be positive or constructive then perhaps refrain. Many teenagers are highly responsible, wise and focussed.
 
Thanks everyone for your advice!

I think it's best for me to go to a shop and compare my current binoculars with others.
I'll inform you in a few month's time about what I have done.

P.S.: I am indeed a teenager, but of course I am highly responsible😉
 
New glass

With due respect you are hijacking and going way off the thread - insurance / teenagers spending their money / loans. None of which is relevant or necessary or really any of your business.

The poster has made the request, not us, in regards to upgrading their binoculars, why not just help them and get off your soapbox? If you cannot be positive or constructive then perhaps refrain. Many teenagers are highly responsible, wise and focussed.

:t::t:

Andy W.
 
With due respect you are hijacking and going way off the thread - insurance / teenagers spending their money / loans. None of which is relevant or necessary or really any of your business.

The poster has made the request, not us, in regards to upgrading their binoculars, why not just help them and get off your soapbox? If you cannot be positive or constructive then perhaps refrain. Many teenagers are highly responsible, wise and focussed.

The poster did very explicitly ask whether they should upgrade the binoculars. Why would any arguments why not to do so be off topic? Or is there only one allowed answer here? The basically only reason why not to upgrade anything is there aren't infinite resources in the world, if it weren't so, there is really not much to discuss.

You are basically attacking me just to further your point of view on the question at hand.
 
We are not on the subject matter of the worlds resources, we are talking of an up grade to a entry level binocular. Did I just walk into an AOC presser?

Andy W.
 
We are not on the subject matter of the worlds resources, we are talking of an up grade to a entry level binocular. Did I just walk into an AOC presser?

Andy W.

No and you didn't accidentally walk in Ruffled Feathers either.

Cool it guys.

Lee
Moderator
 
Thanks everyone for your advice!

I think it's best for me to go to a shop and compare my current binoculars with others.
I'll inform you in a few month's time about what I have done.

P.S.: I am indeed a teenager, but of course I am highly responsible😉

That's the best thing to do, because side by side direct comparison outdoors (if possible, under different weather and light conditions) is by far the best way to assess your current binoculars against other ones, and decide whether the improvements in optical and build quality are worth the expense at your current level of involvement with/interest in the hobby.

Trying different binoculars in a shop is also very useful to get a sense for the different formats (ie. 8x42, 10x42, 8x32). This is true whether you are a teenager or an old fogey like myself. Go to a good shop in an outdoors location that will let you spend some time with the binoculars. Our German based members may be able to provide some recommendations.

As a teenager you have the unique advantage over most of us that your eyesight is not yet degraded by age/work. I am in my early forties and know for sure my vision was better only ten years ago. I can only imagine what a really good pair would have showed me - after I had learned to find what I was looking for - when I was your age. Unfortunately my ability to afford binoculars, and my knowledge of how to use them effectively, were also both at their lowest at that age!
 
Thanks everyone for your advice!

I think it's best for me to go to a shop and compare my current binoculars with others.
I'll inform you in a few month's time about what I have done.

P.S.: I am indeed a teenager, but of course I am highly responsible��

This is a very valuable thread with a very relevant question for many young or less-young people discovering birding and binoculars, I think.

Will €800 binoculars allow you to better identify(!) birds that you couldn't with your current binoculars? I think in 90-95% of cases no as your binoculars don't seem to be bad ones. Probably only in some very specific difficult light conditions where better coatings,internal baffling etc. matter (e.g. low light facing you with veiling glare for a distant small bird at the other side of some lake in the shadow of some plants maybe ;) ) (But if you are not only upgrading quality, but e.g. also switching from a smaller 8x32 to a bigger 10x50, that might help identifying distant birds at low light for example. Not so much less distant birds during normal daylight,even if cloudy.)
However, better binoculars might give a better image thus making it a bit easier or mainly more enjoyable. Going to a shop might help to discover the latter a bit, but might not help a lot to discover if identification would be easier as I think it is not always easy in a shop to try to imagine such specific light conditions. But, for me birding is even more about enjoying watching birds (also very common ones) than identifying rare or difficulty identifiable birds (and if case of failure to identify, I'm usually the one to blame,rarely my binoculars ...). Maybe that is just an excuse for me lacking knowledge ;)

Going to a shop to test for yourself is still a very good idea if you think about upgrading your binoculars. I would however also(!) advice to meet with some nature guide guiding people of all ages etc and ask to/talk with him/her about it, while walking around observing birds. (S)he might also have good advice about what and where to buy in your area (or even to which seller to talk in the shop or to say he has sent you there), not being a seller himself while knowing the people. Also just trying out what others (not only guides,with sometimes lesser but good enough bins) are carrying helps to find out what you want and/or need and what makes a significant difference to you. With covid the following might not occur soon, but some nature associations organize optics days/weekends once a year or so, where you can try optics out outdoors and get discounts. Apart from budget,knowing what kind of binoculars suit you is important,especially if you are about to buy your first good (and for the moment only) one. I think that is not very easy to know from going to a shop and reading forums, especially if this is about buying your first decent binoculars, with little personal reference points.

I think you should check what you can afford without having second thoughts(!) and, if you are really enjoying birding as a hobby, save a bit longer to skip the cheapest ones, but stop well before the alpha or maybe even the top ones from Kite or similar brands. Nikon Monarch 7 or Kite Petrels and Lynx are e.g. models I would recommend íf someone is serious about it ánd can really afford it, being at the higher side of what I would call "great balances of price vs quality". Above that, the law of diminishing returns is undeniable... If you are really into birding, I find it hard to find something below €200 to recommend on the long run, but I don't see much reason to recommend going well beyond €500 either. (Unless you also start being into optics (rather than only birding), often bird in difficult light (not necessarily low light) ànd really can afford more without hurting your wallet.) And, within that price bracket, you might find some good deals for second hand binoculars that do have transferrable warranty for still several years! Where to 'stop' in that bracket is something you will have to define, preferably not getting carried away by a seller or one or another forum poster ;). Happily, you already received contradictory answers :-O

Maybe my personal experience, in a bit of a long story, might clarify what I mean:
My first big purchase as a teenager (about 16 years old) was my first own pair of binoculars. I did so after a few years of getting into the hobby of birdwatching (not optics), nature camps and asking to a guide who guided adults and younger people for many years, who I knew well and trusted (and still do). It wasn't just a fling... With the advices from the nature guides who knew me, I finally ended up buying a very good pair of binoculars from the brand Kite. I went to their shop (where they also sold Zeiss/Swaro/Leica) with already some good hands-on knowledge and unbiased, helpful advice from the guides. I did not buy an alpha (I couldn't afford it and it wouldn't have been a clever idea back than), but one of the better range from Kite, with reduction as a member of the nature association and, importantly,25 or 30 years of warranty with great service. By the time I bought it, I knew from those walks etc with him and others what I(!) wanted, hands-on, and bought a good (+/-) 10x42mm (I was quite comfortable holding 10x bins steady and used to caryy a lot of stuff). I'm not sure anymore but I think the price was nearly €500, which was and still is a lot of money for a pair of binoculars! Considering my savings/wallet, I would never had spent that much without being really sure about the right binoculars for me (at that time), and I would never had spent that much without a good after-sale service and warranty (I couldn't afford the risk).
Until last year, it was still my one and only pair of binoculars, which I have enjoyed for many many years. I had to collect/save for it, but it probably was my best investment ever. The old binoculars I borrowed previously from my parents were bad (small FOV, uncomfortable, not water/weather proof, no good optics...) and the new one made it easier to ID birds and lot more enjoyable and, important for me, weather/water proof making me use it without worrying in all weather. It really made me enjoy my hobby. However, buying anything more expensive, let alone an alpha (Zeiss/Swaro/Leica) would not have been reasonable. Yes,they are nicer, but 3-5x more expensive, wouldn't have made any dentification possible that I couldn't make with mine and I might even have worried carrying such expensive things with me... This might sound stupid or trivial, but you want to use your bins, enjoy them walking everywhere outdoor, not worry about them! Everybody's threshold on this is different, depending on your budget, personality and use of the binoculars (from relaxed nature walk to mountain hiking and climbing via cycling holidays) but you might get carried away by a seller or some of us on this forum and only discover afterwards that you are not that comfortable with your expensive aquisition... (It almost happened to me recently.)
There is a big effect of diminishing returns. Yes, I have upgraded lately, and even realised my teenager dream of buying a (second hand) Swarovski scope last year (rediscovering my hobby in some way in my thirties after some lesser years), but I will cherrish those Kite, keep them and never regret buying them: they made me enjoy my hobby for many years, are still good, and still serviceable... My main reason for upgrading my binocular was that my wishes changed over the past (more than 15) years: I didn't bother carrying a heavy pair back than, but I do now as I was taking my binoculars less often because of their size and weight. Therefor I went to smaller,easier ones (8x30-32mm). And now that I could afford it, I went for second hand alpha.
Now, imagine I would have bought binoculars with my savings back than only to discover a few months later they weren't really the kind/format/size... I liked the most or worrying about them instead of enjoying them in all weather and hikes, I would either have had to continue with them with less joy or save again for some time to make up the loss of selling them second hand for a lesser price to buy another type. Not an easy thing when your budget is tight and you only have that pair of binoculars. And the advice from the guide on the field and discount I had back than really made a difference for me.

This is quite a long story, and it didn't fully answer the question if €800 is (always) better than or worth it compared to €200...sorry! :-C
I was just thinking telling it, with all the different considerations, might help you in your quest for the right binoculars and price for you(!) to enjoy(!) the hobby of birding in your way.
If not, feel free to say so! :t:
 
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RedKnot

You posted:

Hi,

I am thinking of buying new binoculars because I am getting more and more interested in birdwatching.
At the moment, I own some Nikon Prostaff 7s and I'd like to know wether more expensive binoculars, say 800€, would help me to indentify birds better.

What do you think?

I really value your opinion.;)

In my earlier post I stuck to the point in hand, and so failed to support Royfinn's important advice at Post #12:

...

If you have 600€ extra, buying a zoom camera helps a lot with better identification, like Nikon p900 for under 500 €. 200€ bins + 500€ camera is one of the best combinations for a starting birder. ...

In case what I say may help you, I belatedly support Royfinn now.

I try to cut down the weight of kit that I have to carry on birdwatching field trips.

About a year ago I had the idea, like Royfinn, of carrying just a 'general purpose' 8x32 (or accepting a 200gm extra weight penalty, an 'extra wide angle' 7x35 binocular) and a bridge camera.

The bridge camera substitutes for a high power binocular or low power scope.

I already had a Canon SX50 HS bridge camera weighing some 600gm.

But the combination didn't just save me weight.

It meant that I could show an image that I had captured with the bridge camera on the spot to an experienced fellow member of the Group to help with identification.

It meant that I could take an image home with me to compare it with the images in a birdwatcher's field guide.

So I answer your question like Royfinn: A more expensive binocular may help you to identify birds better.

But you might at the same time consider the purchase of a bridge camera as an alternative means of helping you to do so.


Stephen


Royfinn, as above, went into the question of cost.

The focal length of the Canon SX50 HS bridge camera at full zoom is 1200mm (or more precisely, the equivalent of 1200mm focal length for a film camera using 35mm film).

The camera cost me four or five years ago about £350 new. The model was discontinued two or three years later. Earlier this year I found the same camera for a friend selling secondhand at a reputable dealers for £85. The secondhand price on Ebay when I last looked seemed to be about £100.

Good quality bridge cameras in the 1200mm or greater focal length class still sell new for more than £300.

Nevertheless the Canon SX50 HS has an enduring high reputation as a birdwatcher's bridge camera.

The monitor is good. On the other hand, the viewfinder is usually rated by users as 'Poor', or 'Merely adequate'. I find it no more than 'Usable'. In situations which demand the use of the viewfinder, it does at least basically do the job.

But critically the Canon SX50 HS maintains high image quality at full zoom.

I attach as example a Canon SX50 HS identification shot (full size & crop) of a distant Spoonbill. The crop approximates to the view of the Spoonbill as it would have appeared on the spot when zoomed up in the monitor
 

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RedKnot

You posted:



In my earlier post I stuck to the point in hand, and so failed to support Royfinn's important advice at Post #12:



In case what I say may help you, I belatedly support Royfinn now.

I try to cut down the weight of kit that I have to carry on birdwatching field trips.

About a year ago I had the idea, like Royfinn, of carrying just a 'general purpose' 8x32 (or accepting a 200gm extra weight penalty, an 'extra wide angle' 7x35 binocular) and a bridge camera.

The bridge camera substitutes for a high power binocular or low power scope.

I already had a Canon SX50 HS bridge camera weighing some 600gm.

But the combination didn't just save me weight.

It meant that I could show an image that I had captured with the bridge camera on the spot to an experienced fellow member of the Group to help with identification.

It meant that I could take an image home with me to compare it with the images in a birdwatcher's field guide.

So I answer your question like Royfinn: A more expensive binocular may help you to identify birds better.

But you might at the same time consider the purchase of a bridge camera as an alternative means of helping you to do so.


Stephen


Royfinn, as above, went into the question of cost.

The focal length of the Canon SX50 HS bridge camera at full zoom is 1200mm (or more precisely, the equivalent of 1200mm focal length for a film camera using 35mm film).

The camera cost me four or five years ago about £350 new. The model was discontinued two or three years later. Earlier this year I found the same camera for a friend selling secondhand at a reputable dealers for £85. The secondhand price on Ebay when I last looked seemed to be about £100.

Good quality bridge cameras in the 1200mm or greater focal length class still sell new for more than £300.

Nevertheless the Canon SX50 HS has an enduring high reputation as a birdwatcher's bridge camera.

The monitor is good. On the other hand, the viewfinder is usually rated by users as 'Poor', or 'Merely adequate'. I find it no more than 'Usable'. In situations which demand the use of the viewfinder, it does at least basically do the job.

But critically the Canon SX50 HS maintains high image quality at full zoom.

I attach as example a Canon SX50 HS identification shot (full size & crop) of a distant Spoonbill. The crop approximates to the view of the Spoonbill as it would have appeared on the spot when zoomed up in the monitor


Thank you for your tip, but I think I'll stick to binoculars, as I already own a light scope.
 
Bridge camera

RedKnot

Thank you for the speedy response to my post!

As you will have gathered, I own and carry a bridge camera with me on birdwatching trips anyway*. Together with a scope and binocular, it makes for a heavy load.

I wish you the best of luck with the upgrade of your binoculars!


Stephen


* I originally used the camera for bird photography only, but latterly started to use it also for i/d purposes. In particular it was quicker than using a scope to take a shot of a distant 'dot bird', or an obscure bird in a bush, and then blow up the shot and identify the bird in the monitor.

Finally I realised, as part of an effort to reduce the weight of my load, That I could for most of my purposes dispense with the additional load of a scope.

These are not the sort of considerations that may come readily to mind when one starts birdwatching.

In my case, even at a price of over £400, bridge cameras with the potential of the Canon SX50 had not yet even arrived upon the scene
 
Thanks again for all your advice!

After reading quite a bit on this forum and looking through other more expensive binoculars, I have bought the Nikon MHG 8x42 now.

I received them today and I find them really enjoyable after testing them a bit today.
They are a bit sharper, and sort of more 'brilliant' (contrast?) to me.

So far, I am really happy with the purchase and I hope to use them more extensively for birding during the weekend!


P.S.: I noticed the MHG are quite a bit shorter than the Prostaffs.
Do you have any idea why that could be the case?
 
P.S.: I noticed the MHG are quite a bit shorter than the Prostaffs.
Do you have any idea why that could be the case?

Hi,

congratulations to a new toy! Beware of the slippery slope to binomania ;-)

As for why the MHG are shorter (and probably lighter too) - they probably use shorter focal length objectives which at the same objective diameter means they have a faster focal ratio.
As for why - most people like their binoculars to be small and light...

A faster focal ratio means they would normally show more chromatic aberration (the most visible kind in binoculars is purple/yellow fringing at high contrast edges like black birds or branches against a grey sky aka transversal chromatic aberration). Plus also other aberrations in the objective lenses will be more visible. On the other hand whoever build these for Nikon has used so called extra low dispersion or ED glass to combat the chromatic aberration and had a higher budget for production than for the prostaffs, so hopefully quality control on the objective lenses was good enough to keep aberrations in check.

Enjoy the view!

Joachim
 
I live in the US and just bought a pair of Osprey 10x42. anyone used these?

I cant fault them. i compared them to my friends glass which is maybe $500 of binoculars and i cant really tell the difference?

Both hoya glass both roof prisms...
 
A good pair of binoculars would be a very good purchase regarding what cost $800 or more if you can afford! Only if you buy your best pairs and be content and keep it for very long time. It's priceless if each time you bring up the bino on your eyes and see a grand, beautiful views instead of a dull, color incorrectness and diminished beauty of the same views...that is the difference between a good and below average pairs of binoculars. To spend a few hundreds more and you can see a more beautiful views every times for life, that is a small price to pay and a good one to pay for. But be careful! don't get addict and start picking the micro plus and minus on each of alphas that gives you (like many of us here) then have a hard time to deal with the top gear acquires symptoms, then that can become a sin....
 
I live in the US and just bought a pair of Osprey 10x42. anyone used these?

I cant fault them. i compared them to my friends glass which is maybe $500 of binoculars and i cant really tell the difference?

Both hoya glass both roof prisms...
How long has it been since you have seen an ophthalmologist?
 
I'll just say this. While the forum is about birdwatching, there is much more to higher-end binoculars than simply a greater possibility of being able to identify a particular bird. Most any decent quality $350-500 binocular can do that well!

There is so much else in the world to view, with binoculars, and when you have a pair that feel perfect in your hands, fit and function wonderfully with your face and eyes, focus practically effortlessly, and present an image that amazes you with it's clarity, sharpness, and color quality... that alone provides a wonderfully gratifying experience. Even if you're looking at cacti in the desert, whales in the ocean, race cars on a track, architecture, night time vistas in the heart of NYC, or the moon on a full moon night like tonight.

As you step up to binoculars made with greater mechanical precision and incrementally finer image quality, the point of diminishing returns definitely sets in... but even the relatively small diminished returns can be quite sublime.

I am in no way encouraging anyone to spend what they can't afford. But for those who are able to afford near-alpha, or alpha grade binoculars... yes, they are quite an enjoyable treat - even if you could identify the same bird with a $300 pair of 10x42s.
 
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