Pentax 8x32 or 8x43? (1 Viewer)

There was a big long discussion on the 8x42 elsewhere as a popular birding glass.

I am 54 years old, do not wear glasses birding. On a cloudy winter day, say looking for sparrows in a field, is there any real advantage to the 8x43 in terms of brightness or otherwise?

I feel I have not given the 8x a real test, I mostly go out with 10x in winter. If the bird is really far or it is dark, I bring out the scope.

Discuss theory, practical aspects and personal experience.

I have other brands of 8x32, so I can test them out in winter, but I may eventually lean toward an 8x42 if I believe it helps me out.

In summer I use mostly the 8x32s.

The Pentax
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3690
exit pupil 4.0mm
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3691
exit pupil 5.4mm

I am using the Pentax as an example, as I also want to look at others that have wider field at 8x42.

In this technical guide, 4-6mm is lumped in the same daytime use category.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2739

Tero said:

There was a big long discussion on the 8x42 elsewhere as a popular birding glass.

I am 54 years old, do not wear glasses birding. On a cloudy winter day, say looking for sparrows in a field, is there any real advantage to the 8x43 in terms of brightness or otherwise?

I feel I have not given the 8x a real test, I mostly go out with 10x in winter. If the bird is really far or it is dark, I bring out the scope.
Discuss theory, practical aspects and personal experience.

I have other brands of 8x32, so I can test them out in winter, but I may eventually lean toward an 8x42 if I believe it helps me out.

In summer I use mostly the 8x32s.

The Pentax
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3690
exit pupil 4.0mm
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3691
exit pupil 5.4mm

I am using the Pentax as an example, as I also want to look at others that have wider field at 8x42.

In this technical guide, 4-6mm is lumped in the same daytime use category.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2739

Click to expand...

Tero,

From my limited experience with roofs, mid-priced roofs will be dimmer than comparably priced porros.

Case in point, Pentax 8x32 SP vs Nikon 8x32 SE. Around the same price, the SE is brighter.

However, in the winter on a dark, cloudy day, the views get dim with the SE and I switch over to my 804 Audubon or 8x50 Octarem. Both are MC not FMC like the SE, but they still show brighter images and more detail under dim light due to their larger exit pupils, and I'm the same age as you.

Last I had my entrance pupil measured it was 5.5mm. Even if it's now 5mm, the Audubon and Octarem will still be brighter.

Of course, if it's really cold, my porros' focusers will stiffen up, and then I have to switch to my 8x32 LX. The image isn't as bright, and I lose details in the shadows, but at least I can focus without using pliers!

The trade-off in FOV for the larger exit pupil in the SP Pentax series is too much for my tastes.

I had planned to post a thread on the Pentax 8x42 HRc roof to see if anyone has had experience with this new model.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=4890

The 8x42 HRc has a 7.5* FOV, the same FOV as the 8x32 SP. It also has silver coatings in addition to p-coatings, which should, in theory, make the views brighter than the 8x43 SP, which costs $400 more!

I'd be surprised if that were actually true, but the sliver coatings should make them nearly as bright as the SP.

The trade-off will be in the size of the sweet spot. The SP uses aspherical lenses, the HRc does not.

The HRc has a "fiber-reinforced polycarbonate body" so it only weighs four tenths of an ounce more than the 8x32 SP and 1.6 oz. less than the 8x43 SP.

While the polycarbonate body is billed as being "strong but lightweight," I have to wonder if a bad bump will knock the prisms out of alignment.

Zeiss has a magnesium reinforced fiberglass body, and is also advertised as being "strong but lightweight," so perhaps a "plastic" body is not such a "cheap" idea.

If the HRc's sweet spot is large enough (70% for me), and the fall off toward the edges is gradual (I find a steep fall off at the edges distracting), and if the optics are comparably sharp on-axis to the SP, and the bin is hardy enough to take a bump and hold collimation, this new Pentax model should be a hot seller.

Lots of "ifs" though, which is why I'm waiting for someone to post a review!

But the specs and price have got my interest piqued.

Brock

I found a review of the HRc model in a link posted on the Pentax ED thread:http://www.shotgunreport.com/Reviews/Bino/Binos2.pdf

Unfortunately, the reviewer focused on the ED models, and didn't have much to say about the HRc except that the DOF isn't as good.

He also rated it lower for handling, though he didn't explain why. The body style is similar, the HRc has a longer focus wheel, which reminds me of the Meopta. I would think that would accommodate a wider variety of hands. Perhaps they are not as well balanced? Doesn't say.

But what he does say is that if you want a 8x32 that's as bright as a 8x42/43, the Pentax 8x32 ED is the ticket.

I like ED glass, I espoused its virtues on another thread recently, but Audubon ED porros only cost about $100 more, Pentax is charging $300 more for its ED bins, which are otherwise identical to the SPs.

To me, that's bilking it. If they want to break into the premium bin market segment, they need to do more than just add ED glass to the SP line, they need to redesign the EPs to give a wider FOV on the 8x42/43 model w/out sacrificing the wide sweet spot. Then they'll have something that will compete with the Big Boyz.

Brock

Thanks for the review and link.
The HRc sound a lot like the Monarch in build, optics I do not know.

Anyone with all year experience with any of these Pentaxes?

I am not yet a great believer in ED glass at 8x or 10x. For instance the CA never really bothers me in the ones I have left at home, all regular glass except the scope.

I have the Pentax 10x43 cousin of the 8x in question.

Tero said:

Thanks for the reviw and link.
The HRc sound a lot like the Monarch in build, optics I do not know.

Anyone with all year experience with any of these Pentaxes?

I am not yet a great believer in ED glass at 8x or 10x. For instance the CA never really bothers me in the ones I have left at home, all regular glass except the scope.

I have the Pentax 10x43 cousin of the 8x in question.

Click to expand...

Tero,

You're welcome. See my comments about ED glass in this Minox thread (post #12): http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=121323

Brock

I have been keeping my eye out for the new, less expensive Pentax locally without any luck. I did read the ED/HRC review previously and wished much the same...that more would have been added to their side of the review.

I had nothing much to test, but I went out anyway, armed with 8x32 Bushnell Legend and a Pentax 10x43 SP. The overall view quality was about the same. With very similar exit pupils, I could not say that either was brighter in the woods.

I stood looking at a pileated woordpecker...hard to find in all the leaves..with both. I tried to imagine the view of a 8x43 Pentax. FOV same as my Legend but a little brighter. I was then led to conclude that I probably would not see a huge differnce in color, contrast or brightness in the woods. To get a significant improvement in brightness, would need to go to high end 7x42 binoculars. I do not care for any 50mm. Well, maybe on a boat deck, that is all.

To increase my exit pupil cheaply but not have to go to 7x, I could try Swift Audubon 8.5x44. It actually represents closer to my ideal. If somebody made a 9x either in 32mm or 42mm, I would get that and not look back. I might even sell the 10x then.

I guess there are few Pentax fans out there?

I like the 10x43 Pentax. I see it as an improved and more sturdy version of my Monarch 10x42. Whether I would spend over 500 on a 8x43 remains to be seen. The Viper is stiff competition in this price range.

The Monarch 8x42 I am not too interested in anymore, but this is not because I think it poor. It is a pretty good value and a fine beginner binocular. I really have no idea where these poor Monarchs people complain about are coming from.

So far we have the fact that 43mm is not needed, even on a cloudy day. The 32mm has a wider fov, so in most situations it would be more suitable. In twilight, rare for me, other factors may be considered.
On another thread
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1275620&postcount=254
I woul prefer a practical field test for use at sundown or sunrise.

I took out my 10x43 SP model for a few hours yesterday. I am as comfortable with is as with my Monarch, except the eye cups hav slightly different shape. Will get used to it. It behaves like all 10x models I have had as far as depth of field. Views were pretty good. On the other hand, it was not spectacularly better than a Monarch 10x42 in optics. I could be happy with either one. The build is better and eye cups stay in our out as needed, and have click stops.

Diopter was set at an intermediate distance. It seems to be just slightly off for me when looking at objects that were very close. But at that distance I can see the bird without any binoculars.

Is it worth 500-600? Maybe. Is it worth 400? Definitely.

The 8x43 will be similar quality. I am now anxious to see the 8x43 and compare it to the Viper 8x42. It will be some time till I can see both in one store or anywhere.

I don't this line of thinking went anywhere. But I am now convinced that 8x42 are brighter than 8x32. But as I did not have another 500 to spend, other brands had to be looked at.

Tero said:

I don't this line of thinking went anywhere. But I am now convinced that 8x42 are brighter than 8x32. But as I did not have another 500 to spend, other brands had to be looked at.

Click to expand...

Viper?

I may eventually come to the Viper.

But for now, I am not willing to sacrifice the fov I have in the 8x32s. So the solution is porros. Yes, I am willing to make the ultimate sacrifice: carry 30 Oz around my neck again. I may need to bring the 8x32 along so I can switch during the day at the car. And I am only spending about 100 dollars.

My last porros were Action 8x40s, which I sold. Mostly due to non use.

Tero said:

I don't this line of thinking went anywhere. But I am now convinced that 8x42 are brighter than 8x32.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I've gone in the opposite direction. *

Your eye's pupil in daylight is usually stopped down to 2mm in sunlight to 4mm perhaps at twilight. That's an entrance aperture of 16mm to 32mm (for x8) or 20mm to 40mm (for x10). So you would see the difference only at x10 in twilight when your pupils have opened up.

EDIT: * I don't mean x32s are brighter. I think in daylight there isn't a difference based on aperture so long as the exit pupil exceeds the eye's entrance pupil. There may be a difference in transmission of the bin. In a very bad case you really can see it all of the time (I have only one old compact with BK7 prisms and probably not fully single coated that is clearly dimmer). Most of the time with recent FMC bins you can see it only when you AB test.

The win of a 8x40's 5mm exit pupil is not brightness but a relaxed view -- lining up the exit pupil and your eyes entrance pupil is much less critical.

Regarding your heavy porros. Have you tried a harness or carrying the bins bandoleer style.

I use the latter and it's a lot easier than carrying 30oz on your neck!

Brightness: I never did the test with the two in the title. All my tests have been different brands in pairs.

I used to carry the Zeiss 10x40 mostly in my hand. I never dropped it. Porros are not as easy to carry one handed. So may be the slung over shoulder style is right.

I still have a lender strap on these. I kept the strap that the porro came with in the box.