White-throated Flycatcher? Western Mexico (1 Viewer)

Hi All,
I believe I have a White-throated Flycatcher here, but wanted confirmation. I think it's a lifer for me and I may note it on ebird and want to make sure I'm right. I am in Barra de Navidad at the border of Jalisco and Colima. Thanks in advance for any help.
Sue

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It dawned on me that I should point out a few things I read in Steve Howell and Sophie Webb's Guide to the Birds of Mexico and Northern Central America. The bird is a transient and winter visitor from sea level to 1800 feet. He has the months listed as August through early May. I'm 99.9% sure of my ID choice--but I am a rank amateur and agonize over things. I took me awhile to come to the conclusion. I though W. Peewee at first but the bill length, the wing length, and the slope of the forehead bothered me. Anyway thanks again for any insights. I do have a blurry photo of him taking flight where very indistinct wing bars can be seen.
Sue

The lack of wing bars, peaked head, long primaries, and lack of eye ring point me more at a Pewee. Particularly looks like a lot of primary projection. However it’s been a few years since I’ve seen some of these birds in any numbers. And I only ever saw a handful of WT Flycatxhers. Curious to hear other opinions.

Sue, I see a worn (adult) Empidonax flycatcher here. The primary projection is actually not long but fairly short, excluding wood-pewees. I would expect a White-throated Flycatcher to show a bit more colored underparts, especially the flanks and breast sides, and also a darker brown back, but the strong sunlight is an issue here. Also the bill looks kind of hefty to me for a Wh-th Fly. In conclusion, I cannot id this bird with confidence. It may be a worn Willow Flycatcher or some other worn Empidonax. The White-throated Flycatcher is a very localised and scarce species, and like most Empidonax best ided if you can hear its calls.

Motmot said:

Sue, I see a worn (adult) Empidonax flycatcher here. The primary projection is actually not long but fairly short, excluding wood-pewees. I would expect a White-throated Flycatcher to show a bit more colored underparts, especially the flanks and breast sides, and also a darker brown back, but the strong sunlight is an issue here. Also the bill looks kind of hefty to me for a Wh-th Fly. In conclusion, I cannot id this bird with confidence. It may be a worn Willow Flycatcher or some other worn Empidonax. The White-throated Flycatcher is a very localised and scarce species, and like most Empidonax best ided if you can hear its calls.

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Hi Eduardo,
Thank-you for chiming in. Yes, after I downloaded the photos, I realized the wings and pp were too short for peewee--in fact in the field I briefly thought empid because there was some tail pumping--but other things were so different from my usual encounters with empids. The willow/alders I have watched seem to scrunch their rather bulky heads down appearing neckless and there is a lot of motion with their heads looking everywhere. They always seem so active. This bird seemed slender almost and was not so restless. There was just something so un-empid about it. Once I had a look at the photos, I realized it was an empid, but I was very confused by it. I edited the photos for BF and had them ready to ask for help but we went for dinner before I could post. When we came back, I got the guide book out again and it clicked. I went online and checked many photos and just thought this had to be a White-throated! After re-reading and finding that 'winter' included August, it seemed to fit. However, if you question wh-th, then I certainly will. I will not put it on my life list or submit to ebird--but deep down, I still think it's a White-throated Thank-you so much for your time. You have been such a help and mentor to me over the years, and I sincerely appreciate it. I will look at the blurry 'taking flight' shot again--maybe it will be worth posting if it shows the wings and feathers.

P.S. I did not see it vocalizing while I watched it.

Here are two more photos. Not sure they will help. These two were taken before the other three. The bird was farther away so these are heavily cropped and sharpened. As you pointed out, Eduardo--empids need vocalizations.

Thanks for your kind words Sue, appreciate it. These new pics show a different bird though! The wings look fresher, with broad wing bars and tertial margins, and a tad longer primary projection. I think this one is probably a juvenile bird.

Sue, in ebird it is possible to submit bird at below species level, such as "Empidonax sp." Then write in that you suspect WtFl in the comments field and include the photos. You might get a confirmation or the opposite from a local reviewer.

Niels

Motmot said:

Thanks for your kind words Sue, appreciate it. These new pics show a different bird though! The wings look fresher, with broad wing bars and tertial margins, and a tad longer primary projection. I think this one is probably a juvenile bird.

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:eek!::-O Honestly, E, I was not trying to pull a fast one! These photos were 5 in a sequence. I didn't actually see the bird land on the new closer perch though. I saw the bird in the farther perch, got the camera up a clicked two shots before it took off. Didn't get a good view really. Then a few feet down the road, I saw "it" land (that is when I noticed a little tai pumping) It was close to the road and on a much lower level. I had the bins on it for a good amount of time. I then took a couple of photos before it took off. I couldn't pick it up again. When I posted, I thought it sure looked different, but figured that had something to do with the light. The first perch was high and was not in the bright light of the lower, roadside perch. Sorry. |:$|

njlarsen said:

Sue, in ebird it is possible to submit bird at below species level, such as "Empidonax sp." Then write in that you suspect WtFl in the comments field and include the photos. You might get a confirmation or the opposite from a local reviewer.

Niels

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Ah, another of my mentors. Thanks, Neils. I may do that. I went on ebird briefly to see how to get things started. There have been a few times that I thought something I found might be a useful contribution.

Actually Sue, every contribution to Ebird is useful! I base 80% of my birding trips abroad on Ebird lists. It also gives a good idea of a species declining or increasing in a particular area.

I think your Flycatcher is a Willow. A bit worn though. And, with every Empid. definetely not sure.