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Cats - Not Raptors: No surprise there (1 Viewer)

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Old news really,I dont think anyone is under any illusions to the damage cats do reguardless of their views on Raptors.
 
Old news really,I dont think anyone is under any illusions to the damage cats do reguardless of their views on Raptors.

Old news it may be (and, of course, is) but those who try to persuade your average Daily Wail reader would never suggest a cull of cats (or even compulsory bells) - much rather a cull of Sparrowhawks.

David
 
wait till i'm PM cats will be straight on the DWA licence.

they are without doubt the single greatest threat to our small wildlife.
 
Jeez y'all, coyotes are doing all they can to cut the cat population here, but we keep killing them off. I dunno...coyotes and raptors start an education campaign?
 
I just paid for my dogs liscense which cats are not required to have here in Pa.. Perhaps if cats were also to be liscensed it would maybe lessen the wild ones by making owners more resposible for thier pets (preventing unwanted ones due to spaying and neutering) and raise money for the trapping of wild feral ones. I have a total dislike for wild cats but will go no further on the subject. the people that hate raptors seem to be the hunters that want to kill the raptors because raptors kill the animals the hunters want to kill. sounds greedy. buying a hunting liscense seems to make them sole owner of all the wildlife. I still like the coyote idea, were can i get one. hahha
 
Hi Gary,
Just be patient, the coyotes are already back. You just have not seen them yet.
There have been a couple here in NYC Central Park during the last few years, one died as it was tranquilized to be shipped to an upstate park, the other stayed for several weeks, hiding by day in the fenced in nature preserve and jumping out at night to go hunting. He got along well with New Yorkers walking their dogs. Eventually, he left and went back upstate.
 
Cats Indoors!...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...ok, you feel me.
 
Compulsary Bell collars sounds good,with multiple bells on them, The pests don't even eat their prey just play with it,
 
Compulsory bell collars.

they don't work. well maybe they do for some, but certainly not from my experience!

I must admit, cats obviously contribute to bird and small animal deaths, but I don't believe they are the main threat to them at all. what about habitat destruction , and harmful chemicals like pesticides? poaching, shooting? and climate change? I'm not trying to start a debate here, just saying, I think that you can't pinpoint one thing and say that's the main cause or biggest threat to small birds and mammals.
 
Cats Indoors!...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...Cats Indoors...repeat...ok, you feel me.

Im confused as to what you mean.


Bird Tables
On my farm we have a few cats, Tabitha and Taliban, they eat rats and mice mostly, the rest of the time they eat cat food. Are the small bird fatalities caused by domestic cats in any way linked to people putting bird feeders in their gardens?

The hobby of conveiniantly placing a bird table in the middle of the garden is essentially setting a dinner table for cats and raptors alike. We like birds in our gardens, but to lure them in to be food for the moggy seems a bit counterproductive.

Is there any sense in this statement? I dont have a bird table, and my cats rarley kill birds, in fact I've never seen them with a dead bird.
 
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It depends on the birds...the cats...and the location. Where I live, cats take a lot of wild birds, mostly songbirds, in the woods and not by a feeder. In a more urban setting I'm sure the bird feeders are making sitting ducks (well, not literally) of the songbirds that come there. Ferals around my area are better at catching birds than rats or mice. Why, because the rats and mice are acclimated to feral cats....they know they are hunting them. The birds are migrants, some knowing what to look for, some are clueless.
 
they don't work. well maybe they do for some, but certainly not from my experience!

I must admit, cats obviously contribute to bird and small animal deaths, but I don't believe they are the main threat to them at all. what about habitat destruction , and harmful chemicals like pesticides? poaching, shooting? and climate change? I'm not trying to start a debate here, just saying, I think that you can't pinpoint one thing and say that's the main cause or biggest threat to small birds and mammals.

AT LAST a bit of common sense in the usual sea of Bird Forum nastiness and poison against cats :smoke:
 
AT LAST a bit of common sense in the usual sea of Bird Forum nastiness and poison against cats :smoke:

Some might say that the poison and nastiness about cats make a change from the usual poison and nastiness about some of the other things Nature-lover mentioned;)
 
It always makes me boil that owners of cats can never see the harm they do to our wildlife. They won't have a wrong word said against Tiddles.
 
Yet these same folks who hate cats so much are not bothered about the amount of children they produce.....surely humans are a MILLION times more destructive to this whole planet than cats could ever be!

I've got two indoor cats who are rescues that were abused by humans - Suzi was beaten up by her owner and it's taken months to get her to trust anyone. The other, Domino, was neglected by her owner - kicked out at 16 years old, starved (3lb 4oz instead of the 9lb she should weigh!), had to have all but four of her teeth out and all her fur shaved off because her owners wouldn't brush her.

I'm not sentimentally 'sticking up' for cats...or dogs or sparrowhawks for that matter...it just seems that society as a whole seems to be getting incredibly intolerant of anything that is not a human in this world :smoke: Animals have just as much right to be on this planet as humans!!!
Yes, cats CAN be damaging to birds/small mammals etc in that some, but not all, cats will catch them but that is just instinct. Is it instinct when bored teenagers shoot swans or ducks?
I refuse to believe that songbird numbers are being affected JUST by cats.....surely, as has been said, more damage is done by pesticides, gardens being covered in decking or tarmac, farm fields not being left so finches/buntings have food overwinter. Surely it cannot be right that humans can overpopulate the planet and abuse it's resources yet STILL be blind to what is going on....preferring to instead blame cats or a natural predator like a sparrowhawk? :smoke:
 
Yet these same folks who hate cats so much are not bothered about the amount of children they produce.....surely humans are a MILLION times more destructive to this whole planet than cats could ever be!

You've probably got a point there (i dont have kids by the way) humans are the most destructive but i guess the point is part of humans being destructive is them having cats. Nobody is blaming the cats the problem is people having cats.
Also nobody is saying that its just Cats that are the problem(though they may well be one of the biggest) but as you say yourself they are a problem and to non cat owners at least it seems an easily solved problem which is not often the case. There's probably little doubt that habitat loss is the single biggest threat but thats a very difficult problem to deal with and one that will probably only get worse so we need to look at other answers and people not keeping Cats or at least not letting them out seems to be a fairly simple solution that would probably have quite a large positive impact though I do appreciate that as a Cat owner you wont see it that way which is understandable.
 
Agreed. ....to a point. Your cats, though they have been thru hell and you helped them, assumably sleep safely at night/day in a house. They are not subjected to the same elements as the other wild animals that are eliminated by cold, hunger, disease, competition, etc. They have a huge (unfair?) advantage over the birds, mice and rats and feral cats. They don't have to adapt to the environment if they only spend 10 hours in it a day.
Your cats can't help but follow instinct that tells them to hunt, even when the are stuffed full of food. Wild ones hunt to survive, and to learn better hunting skills....it looks like its 'cruelty' to many, but that's what they are doing....honing their skills like a kid shooting blackbirds, or an Inuit waiting at a hole for hours to stab a seal. They 'have' to do it, but not to live. Thanks for keeping yours indoors, BTW. It has to be tough on the cats.
Think of the cultures of 'humans without cats' vs. the 'humans with cats' and which are more distructive to the bird's environment? Now try the same with dogs. interesting comparison. Anybody want to try?
 
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Yet these same folks who hate cats so much are not bothered about the amount of children they produce.....surely humans are a MILLION times more destructive to this whole planet than cats could ever be!

I refuse to believe that songbird numbers are being affected JUST by cats.....Surely it cannot be right that humans can overpopulate the planet and abuse it's resources yet STILL be blind to what is going on....preferring to instead blame cats or a natural predator like a sparrowhawk? :smoke:

Yes. Nice to see this thinking on BF!

Many people fail to recognise humanity as a part of biodiversity and an innate part of all ecosystems. They ignore that if any other organisms was observed to be so prolific and damaging, both directly and indirectly, then overall problems with the ecology would be instantly attributed to it. We should be taking more responsiblity for the problems we have caused.

Within a natural system no species could mutiply and grow the way we have, our big brains have found loopholes in ecology but what so many forget is that we are still untterly dependant on the environment, and that the health of our population is directly linked to global genetic diversity.

Anyway,

The effect of predation on the song bird population (which is made up of many species) has been most drastically effected by loss of habitat and envionmental disturbance. These are the findings of every comprehensive scietific study out there.

We know from experience that removing predators causes many long term effects which are generally degrading to and ecosystems health. These include artificial non-sustainable population booms, which eventually collapse when the pradator returns or a new one moves in (sparrow hawks and house sparrows). The plumeting population does not have the natural resources to effectively recover, and so remain at low numbers for much longer than we expect or would like. In an ailing environment this can mean extinction.

The arguments for predation control are tenuous and based on a poor understanding of ecology. Not to mention unsupported by scientific research, though this is often argued with simple one dimensional studies of predator prey relationships.

Predation is a completely natural and imperative relationship within ecology. Predators only threaten vulnerable populations, they are an effector of extinction not the cause of it.

Put a bell on your cats, it might help. Otherwise work with local conservation trusts and groups to replace lost habitat, that the best thing we can do for biodiversity.
 
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