Nikon 60mm fieldscope or Minox 62 ED (1 Viewer)

DHB · Aug 17, 2004

Want - Need opinions between these two scopes. The Nikon is my preference but the extra outlay for ED just isn't there. They are about the same price (the Nikon non-ED is a little more, found the kit for $499 but I think it has the older zoom). The Minox is a demo but it has the ED glass.

Another thought - If you buy the ED Nikon it's almost the same price as a demo Zeiss. Is it as good as the Leica, Ziess or Swaro.
Once again thanks for the input.
Dave

Hermann · Aug 17, 2004

DHB said:
Want - Need opinions between these two scopes. The Nikon is my preference but the extra outlay for ED just isn't there. They are about the same price (the Nikon non-ED is a little more, found the kit for $499 but I think it has the older zoom). The Minox is a demo but it has the ED glass.

Another thought - If you buy the ED Nikon it's almost the same price as a demo Zeiss. Is it as good as the Leica, Ziess or Swaro.
Once again thanks for the input.

I know the Nikons quite well. My mother got a non-ED Nikon II years ago. A nice little scope, but after she got a Nikon ED II cheap she never used the non-ED anymore. It now sits in the cupboard as a backup in case something bad happens to her ED. The difference between the two Nikons is very obvious, especially at higher magnifications, although the non-ED Nikon is not a bad scope at all. I'm not sure, however, where the Minox ED fits into this. My impressions were that it was quite a nice scope, but I didn't have a direct comparison to one of the Nikons. Sorry, but I can't be more specific.

Now, which of the small scopes (Swarovski 65, Zeiss 65, Leica 62, Nikon ED) is best is open to debate. I got into the Nikon system years ago, so I stuck with it when I upgraded from the ED II to the ED III. However, if I were to buy a small scope now I'd have to have a very close look at all four of them. Optically I think the Nikon ED III is excellent, but I think the (relatively) wide field of view of the Zeiss zoom might just be the most important factor. I also prefer the focussing of the Zeiss. But I still think the Nikon ED is optically an absolutely brilliant little scope.

Hermann

DHB · Aug 17, 2004

I am thinking for 1/2 the price of ED Nikon that the Minox ED might be a good little scope. Just seems real hard to find a deal anymore on the good stuff.
Dave

Hermann · Aug 17, 2004

DHB said:
I am thinking for 1/2 the price of ED Nikon that the Minox ED might be a good little scope. Just seems real hard to find a deal anymore on the good stuff.

That's the law of diminishing returns in optics - once you get past a certain point it becomes more and more difficult (and thus expensive) to further increase the quality. The Minox seems like a very good buy to me, and from what I remember it also seems solidly built. I don't think you can go wrong with it.

Hermann

scampo · Aug 17, 2004

With 30x wide eypieces, the scopes are all pretty similar - although I think a recent test put the Minox a bit behind. I think I'd go for the Nikon with that eyepiuece. But... with a zoom eyepiece, the Zeiss has to be the choice as it is so very wide and gives a truly wonderful view.

All of the scopes you suggest are, broadly, of similar high quality build.

pduxon · Aug 18, 2004

scampo said:
With 30x wide eypieces, the scopes are all pretty similar - although I think a recent test put the Minox a bit behind. I think I'd go for the Nikon with that eyepiuece. But... with a zoom eyepiece, the Zeiss has to be the choice as it is so very wide and gives a truly wonderful view.

All of the scopes you suggest are, broadly, of similar high quality build.

is that the recent test that put the Leica and Swaro ahead of the Zeiss and Nikon?

Never looked through the Zeiss DHB. Through a fixed lens there's not much in it. I preferred the Leica just over the Swaro and Nikon but it was marginal. Through a zoom though I thought the narrow fov of the Nikon was a negative.

Ultimately it will come down to personal preference.

Grousemore · Aug 18, 2004

pduxon said:
is that the recent test that put the Leica and Swaro ahead of the Zeiss and Nikon?

Never looked through the Zeiss DHB. Through a fixed lens there's not much in it. I preferred the Leica just over the Swaro and Nikon but it was marginal. Through a zoom though I though the narrow fov of the Nikon was a negative.

Ultimately it will come down to personal preference.

Certainly is personal preference...when I was buying,the Nikon didn't even make my shortlist and like Pete I narrowly went for the Leica rather than the Swaro.

scampo · Aug 18, 2004

I think the Leica with 30x is barely different from the Nikon optically, but from the viewpoint of style and kudos (as well as cost, of course) many would, naturally enough, be swayed to the Leica - it is a very beautiful product. The Leica zoom eyepiece is wider than the Nikon's, but if that is what matters (and it should if you're after a zoom), then the Zeiss eyepiece offers the king of zooms.

pduxon · Aug 18, 2004

scampo said:
I think the Leica with 30x is barely different from the Nikon optically, but from the viewpoint of style and kudos (as well as cost, of course) many would, naturally enough, be swayed to the Leica - it is a very beautiful product. The Leica zoom eyepiece is wider than the Nikon's, but if that is what matters (and it should if you're after a zoom), then the Zeiss eyepiece offers the king of zooms.

but if you're after both..........

barely implies you think the Leica is marginally better

Hey for those on that Zeiss thread that barely is ENORMOUSLY important.

As to cost according to w/express the Nikon angled with 30x is £799 and the Leica with 26x is £828. Barely anything in it!!

its personal.

as I've mentioned before the little Zeiss doesn't seem to garner the accolades that the big one does. e.g bvd

Grousemore · Aug 18, 2004

scampo said:
I think the Leica with 30x is barely different from the Nikon optically, but from the viewpoint of style and kudos (as well as cost, of course) many would, naturally enough, be swayed to the Leica - it is a very beautiful product. The Leica zoom eyepiece is wider than the Nikon's, but if that is what matters (and it should if you're after a zoom), then the Zeiss eyepiece offers the king of zooms.

I wasn't referring to 'style' or 'kudos',but the view they give when looking at birds.
My opinion was reached after testing the scopes side-by-side.

scampo · Aug 18, 2004

pduxon said:
but if you're after both..........

barely implies you think the Leica is marginally better Hey for those on that Zeiss thread that barely is ENORMOUSLY important.

As to cost according to w/express the Nikon angled with 30x is £799 and the Leica with 26x is £828. Barely anything in it!!

its personal.

as I've mentioned before the little Zeiss doesn't seem to garner the accolades that the big one does. e.g bvd

I didn't realise the price was so close, Pete. The Leica it is then! Regarding the Zeiss 65, I don't think the company push their products enough myself.

scampo · Aug 18, 2004

Grousemore said:
I wasn't referring to 'style' or 'kudos',but the view they give when looking at birds.
My opinion was reached after testing the scopes side-by-side.

Well, I also did write, "I think..." and didn't mean to impute you were worng. Sorry if it sounded at all that way. I'm interested in what improvement you felt the Leica showed over the Nikon? I have, of course, a very high regard for the Leica, but I have had a good look through both scopes for quite extended periods on several occasions in the field (with fixed eyepieces and zoom) and I would be hard pressed to say either were much different when the fixed eyepieces are considered. The Nikon does give a stunningly faithful colour, that I do recall; perhaps the Leica is a smidgeon brighter and does have a super-silky focusing control, although I do like the super fast ring focus of the Nikon, too.

DHB · Aug 18, 2004

compared Leica - Zeiss and a Minox

I just returned from a mid-day jaunt to examine the Zeiss, an non-APO Leica and a non-ED Minox. The Zeiss (at least the example I looked through) still had yellow or gray cast which makes it appear not as bright as the Leica but the FOV was ever so slightly wider. The Zeiss had a much superior (easier) focus but maybe the Leica isn't broke in. The Minox was sharp but it has the same problem as all lesser spotters of a narrow FOV and critical to eye position. I was just notified by a wholesaler in the US that they have reduced there demo Zeiss 65's to $799. The Leica remains about $50 higher. Of course here in the US the Zeiss also has transferable warranty.
Anymore comments??? I am about to push the button on the Zeiss.
Dave

scampo · Aug 18, 2004

Toss a coin? Seriously, there's little to choose in the ED stakes. I agree that the Zeiss does, in some lights, show its slight yellow cast more than in others, but it is a supremely sharp and wide scope. The Leica is unquestionably more neutral and is a bright, small scope. Regarding field of view, using the published fugures, the Zeiss zoom shows almost 50% more area than the next widest zoom, the Swarovski, which is itself wider than the Leica.

A quick look at the Zeiss and Leica websites shows the Zeiss fov is 24 feet wider at lowest magnification. This is significant as it is this magnification at which you first look through the scope at a bird. The wider the fov, the easier to locate the bird and see what is happening around it. I do think in practical birding terms this is very much worthy of consideration, although until you have put the scope to full use in the field, it's easy not to appreciate its value.

In my family, we have a Nikon 82, a Swaro 65 and a Zeiss 85. Both the Nikon and Swaro do give a somewhat more neutral colour than the Zeiss, for sure, the Nikon is especially faithful to nature, but I wouldn't choose either of those scopes over the Zeiss, simply because the more I use the Zeiss, the more that extra fov proves itself in the field. Think of binoculars - would anyone choose a pair that showed 40+% less area? I wouldn't.

iporali · Aug 18, 2004

DHB said:
Anymore comments??? I am about to push the button on the Zeiss.
Dave

Go for it - an FL-Zeiss is always better than a non-apo Leica (if it is not broken or something). In addition to the wider zoom, the symmetrical scope body makes aiming easier - not to mention the correction of the chromatic aberration.

Ilkka

DHB · Aug 18, 2004

I just ordered the Zeiss. The ease of focus, wide FOV, transferrable warranty and the FL glass made it the winner. I really couldn't see the difference in the colors but today the mirage was very bad, about the worst conditions to be testing scopes. If the focusing of the Leica would've been better it would've been very tough because it's image did seem brighter - whiter.
Dave

scampo · Aug 18, 2004

Do post again when you've had the chance to put the Zeiss to real use as a birding scope. The Leica is a "whiter" image, with slightly more apparent contrast. But... let's see what you feel after a bit of use in the field. I think you'll be more than a little thrilled with your new purchase.

Ragna · Aug 18, 2004

An fl Zeiss has to be a better scope than a non apo Leica, iam sure youll be pleased.

iambirding · Aug 19, 2004

where do you get these prices and deals?

where do you get such a good price and deal in the USA? i cant even buy one for the prices i ve found. that price is unbelievable! any info would help. thanks.

DHB · Aug 19, 2004

Prices

iambirding said:
where do you get such a good price and deal in the USA? i cant even buy one for the prices i ve found. that price is unbelievable! any info would help. thanks.

iambirding - I sent you a pm.
Dave

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