Corona virus threat to birding (1 Viewer)

I would think that one of the worst places to pick this up ( at least as it spreads over the next couple of months ) would be on a flight, especially a longer one. Sharing the same recycled air with 200+ others over several hours in a confined space and all sharing 3 or 4 toilets. It’s well known how easy it is to pick up something on these flights - certainly happened to me. Last flight I was on ,there was a girl coughing almost continuously - don’t think that will be acceptable soon.

I have two long haul wildlife watching trip planned this year plus a family city break. My asthma also seems to be getting worse. For the first time ever, I wished I'd gone for a UK year.

cheshirebirder said:

I would think that one of the worst places to pick this up ( at least as it spreads over the next couple of months ) would be on a flight, especially a longer one. Sharing the same recycled air with 200+ others over several hours in a confined space and all sharing 3 or 4 toilets. It’s well known how easy it is to pick up something on these flights - certainly happened to me. Last flight I was on ,there was a girl coughing almost continuously - don’t think that will be acceptable soon.

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The air in the airplane is not recycled though, the whole volume of air gets exchanged every few minutes. If anything is not in short supply when you are ramming into more and more atmosphere ahead of you at 0.8 Mach, it's definitely the air Currently the experts don't consider a significant risk of airborne transmission unless you are sitting really close to an infected person, the main risk is due to touching surfaces - as you mentioned the toilets are definitely a big risk and then also sadly the tables and such, contaminated by previous passangers.

This having said, I still get sick a lot after flying, but very often with bacterial diseases - I am not sure why, it may even not be transmission, but mucous membrane damage from the dry air and thus increased susceptibility. If pandemics blows up, there will be hand sanitizers freely available on flights, significantly reducing transmission risks, so that will be probably even better than today.

That having said, I usually fly at least 30 legs per year and this year I am at two (from the return from New Years' holiday) and have not bought anything more, so I am sort of drinking wine and preaching water here

peter.jones said:

For anyone feeling hard done by, you might be surprised how rewarding it can be to "look inward" and study other nature on your doorstep. Be it Butterflies, Moths, Flowers, Fungi, etc. there are tonnes of new species to look for in your home county, and low risk of any infection, (until you have to fill your car up with petrol!)

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I am going on a bit of a personal tangent here, but while I understand this thinking, it's simply not "enough" to let me be fine with it. I do love the nature around my place a lot - it's actually one of the reasons I went through with this somewhat absurd arrangement of living in Poland while working in Czech Republic, because there is simply much more nature here (and many things are new for me, making it even more interesting). But it's still hard to measure this up against the wonders of the nature that exist worldwide, especially because I have already seen and felt how great this can be. Up to the last year, I would be regularly spending several months per year abroad cummulatively and this is simply hard to give up.

Honestly I feel like my life has been a properly scripted drama for the last few years as at any moment in time when I feel "now I have everything figured out and am going to enjoy the rest of my life greatly" something absurd turns up and throws a winch into everything. When I first heard about the virus (back when it was a "small outbreak") I sighed internally and thought, yep, that will be the next thing ...

Sure, this will eventually blow over one way or the other, but as someone in a significant risk of not being able to walk at some point in the future, waiting is my least favorite activity.

opisska said:

The air in the airplane is not recycled though, the whole volume of air gets exchanged every few minutes. If anything is not in short supply when you are ramming into more and more atmosphere ahead of you at 0.8 Mach, it's definitely the air Currently the experts don't consider a significant risk of airborne transmission unless you are sitting really close to an infected person, the main risk is due to touching surfaces - as you mentioned the toilets are definitely a big risk and then also sadly the tables and such, contaminated by previous passangers.

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The air in a plane is also very dry (low humidity), which will significantly shorten the lifespan of shed virus on surfaces. Whether enough to render the surfaces fairly safe, I don't know - I've seen a figure of 3 days survival cited in more normal indoor conditions.

I plan to go away mid-April for a week max - I would hate to get stuck somewhere!! On the plus side if less people travel would there be some real cheap deals? I think it will get worse.

My daughter was scheduled to go on a cruise this past Monday. Thank God her husband and I talked her out of it.

opisska said:

Sure, this will eventually blow over one way or the other, but as someone in a significant risk of not being able to walk at some point in the future, waiting is my least favorite activity.

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There is nothing new:

"Then we do nothing?" said Hugh.

"We wait," said De Aquila. "I am old, but that is the most grievous work I know."

(Rudyard Kipling, Puck of Pook's Hill: Old Men at Pevensey.)

The coronavirus will pass. Until then, we wait, frustrating though it is :t:

John

Without wishing to minimise the seriousness of this outbreak, I'd argue that for most of birdwatchers most of the time the impact should be minimal. Yes, those planning on going on an exotic holiday may find flights and/or the trip canceled or may wish to avoid visiting areas with poor or minimal levels of health care but surely that accounts for a small % of the time we go birding. In the longer term, some bird tour companies may go bust but that shouldn't make a big difference to our day-to-day birding. Those in vulnerable categories might wish to avoid birding in larger groups but most birders go out alone or in small groups (i.e. four or less based on the size of most vehicles). Even if some restricted entry reserves close many other birding sites will be open for us to visit. "Social distancing" shouldn't be too difficult for birders who like wide-open spaces.

We have to tread a fine line between necessary caution and hysterical overreaction. As a corrective to the latter (whilst not minimising the distress and grief this outbreak will cause) I offer the sage words of writer-activist Craig Murray (himself in a very vulnerable group) - "100% of those who contract coronavirus are going to die. 100% of those who do not contract coronavirus are also going to die. The difference in average life expectancy between the two groups will prove to be only very marginal." We all want to avoid this contagion & should do our best not to catch it or pass it on but it's not the automatic death sentence some of the hype suggests.

Stats for Italy (7th March) -

Percentage of deaths by age group:
90+ years old: 6% of deaths
80 - 89 years old: 42% of deaths
70 - 79 years old: 35% of deaths
60 - 69 years old: 16% of deaths

Note none younger than 60. Age/prevalence of underlying health issues causal ...

It's about the restrictions to travel in the authorities trying to reduce the spread that's the problem. Foot and Mouth probably would have been more restrictive to birding on a local level than this will be?

One of the issues with businesses going out of business is to do with business models and cash flow. If a hiatus can be taken (ie a pause) then ...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/italy-poised-seal-north-coronavirus-live-updates-200307234942500.html

Ha! The first big hit to birding in Europe is here - anyone wishing to sweep up the cat. C offerings of Northern Italy is now officially out of luck!

dantheman said:

Stats for Italy (7th March) -

Percentage of deaths by age group:
90+ years old: 6% of deaths
80 - 89 years old: 42% of deaths
70 - 79 years old: 35% of deaths
60 - 69 years old: 16% of deaths

Note none younger than 60. Age/prevalence of underlying health issues causal ...

It's about the restrictions to travel in the authorities trying to reduce the spread that's the problem. Foot and Mouth probably would have been more restrictive to birding on a local level than this will be?

One of the issues with businesses going out of business is to do with business models and cash flow. If a hiatus can be taken (ie a pause) then ...

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I've not the slightest doubt that, as far as birding goes, an outbreak of foot & mouth would be far more restricting for birders in the UK.

Israel now thinking about quarantining ALL passengers from any country. That'll flush my April vacation down the tube.

Champions of the Flyway and Eilat Bird Festival in March too ...

dantheman said:

Champions of the Flyway and Eliat Bird Festival in March too ...

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Everyone just needs to get there right now the wait out the quarantine?

opisska said:

Everyone just needs to get there right now the wait out the quarantine?

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Can think of worse places to be stuck ... (I'm not going unfortunately)

btw - liked the fact that you get your news from Aljeezera earlier - other news channels such as BBC had already had it too

dantheman said:

Can think of worse places to be stuck ... (I'm not going unfortunately)

btw - liked the fact that you get your news from Aljeezera earlier - other news channels such as BBC had already had it too

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I honestly get my news from Google I picked Al Jazeera just because it was the most easily navigated think to link on the first page - I think BBC had it all in one long online report so the link could then show later something else than what I had in mind, and many other news services put paywalls these days. That's not to say Al Jazeera isn't a good news source - in particular if you want to check the situation in Israel, you are sure there is no sugar-coating - in the same vein, there are english-speaking Israeli papers online that you can trust to not cover up anything bad happening in Iran.

From a birding visit perspective to Israel this spring if the proposed All countries quarantine is implemented then this will mean no one will travel to the country unless they live there as the requirement would be to go into quarantine for 2 weeks upon arrival. If you are a non resident you will highly likely be allowed entry into the country.

This will mean no overseas Champions of the Flyway teams attending (though the israeli teams can still participate), an even bigger hit on the countries tourism than it has experienced so far. Reading several Israel news websites seems to imply many within the Health and Tourism Government Departments don't want such far reaching Quarantine bans, especially as CV-19 is now in the country and cases are increasing, case of bolting the barn door after the horse has bolted.

From speaking with someone on the ground who arrived a few days ago staying at a community accommodation, such as Lotan, Kfar Ruppin etc may present difficulties if one has to self isolate.

There is the potential to self isolate as retrospective action if you are already in the country and Government advisories are put in place in relation to your country of departure. I have cancelled my days I would have spent in the north around the Jordan Valley as there is the potential of not being able to stay where I intended.

At present Israel is one of the few countries that are considering a full Quarantine action for all countries. I for one wouldn't want to fly there to find that I would either have to come straight back or be put into quarantine for my 2 weeks holiday before then being sent back home.

I'm hoping for the best but I'm expecting the travel ban to be implemented.

If other countries around the world start implementing such travel restrictions then from a birding perspective perhaps the biggest impact will be on Birding Tour Companies rather than individual birders. Some tour companies could run the risk of going bust but individual birders who go on these tours would be impacted by just not getting a birding holiday.

Hoping that this outbreak runs its course very soon.

Arrivals from all countries now seem to have to go into quarantine
Game over for Birding there next week

Yep, just saw it.

No word on whether Field Guides will pull the plug on my April tour, but at this point, quite frankly I hope they cancel it. I'm sick of the uncertainty roller-coaster.