• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Ptilinopus mercierii (1 Viewer)

S

Susan Manchester

Well-known member
I have been looking at this for about four hours, so I wanted to try and run it past the experts, especially those that might speak French. Who is the specific epithet mercierii for? I see that the one type of this bird was found during the circumnavigation of the earth on La Venus, led by Abel Aubert Du Petit-Thouars. I tried looking for a crew member named Mercier, but found nothing. I found what looked like a lithographer or publisher named Bernard Mercier (which I found out is the French equivalent of Taylor). My eyes are starting to roll from trying to translate all those French reports. Thank you for any help you can give me!
 
Jobling 2010 gives: M. Mercier (flourished 1848) French botanist.

Another long shot...
Also...

  • Merciera is a South African plant genus named "for Marie Philippe Mercier (1781-1831), French botanist born on the island of Martinique, plant collector and traveller, later moved to Geneva and studied under de Candolle. After his death, his considerable herbarium of West Indian plants was purchased by the British naturalist Philip Barker Webb. (CRC World Dictionary of Plant Names, PlantzAfrica, Acta Botanica Venezuelica)"
    www.calflora.net/southafrica/1L-O.html

  • "Alphonse De Candolle named the genus in honour of the botanist Phillip Mercier in 1830. He erected the genus to accommodate three species of Campanulaceae from the Cape..."
    www.plantzafrica.com/plantklm/merciera.htm
But the dates 1781-1831 are inconsistent with Jobling's 1848. Unless this is just Jobling concluding that he must have lived before 1849 (when Des Murs & Prévost described mercierii)?

PS. JSTOR states that Marie Philippe Mercier collected plants in French Polynesia, which fits with Ptilinopus mercierii.
 
Last edited:
From the description of Kurukuru Mercierii by Prévost and des Murs (1849, p. 266-267):

"Cette jolie espece, qui fait aujourd'hui partie de la collection du Muséum d'histoire naturelle de Paris, y a été apportée en 1848, sous le nom de Colombe Kurukuru à calotte pourpre, par M. Mercier, auquel nous la dédions, attaché au Jardin botanique...

Habit. Iles Marquises, Noukiva, où l'individu unique a été tué par M. Mercier, dans la vallé de Mohana, sur un figuier dont cet oiseau mangeait la graine."

translation:
"This pretty species, which is now part of the collection of the Museum of Natural History of Paris, was brought there in 1848, under the name Crimson-capped Kurukuru Dove, by M. Mercier, attaché to the bontanical garden, for whom we dedicate it...

Habitat: Noukiva [= Nuku Hiva], Marquesas Islands, where the unique individual was killed by M. Mercier, in the Mohana valley, in a fig tree where this bird was eating the fruit."

Rick
 
Last edited:
Actually had the reference stored on my hard drive...the species is extinct, so it's included in my book. Once I saw the post, just had to spend a few moments writing out the passage and translation. Providing the link is much better!
 
Last edited:
This is a hard one. All I can add is that his first name starts with a P. Philippe Patric etc. ??

P. Mercier (sometimes called M. P. Mercier, M= Monsieur? ) botanized in the Marquesas islands in 1847. Therefore, he was not in the Venus explorations. This makes sense with the 1848 date for the bird coming to the museum in Paris.
Allertonia, 7(4), February I997, pp. 22l—225

http://www.mnhn.fr/museum/front/medias/publication/1332_z04n1a8.pdf .
The Type tag lists Bonaparte as the namer . He did publish first in November 1854 while O. des Murs & Florent Prevost did not publish until 1855.
Bonaparte's publication is called Coup D'Oeil Sur L'Ordre Des Pigeons.
http://books.google.com/books?id=zwQ2AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false .
This is interesting copy of this publication because it is a presentation copy from Bonaparte to Charles Waterton, naturalist, kook, from Yorkshire.
 
Last edited:
Although the "Zoologie" volume (mammals, birds, reptiles, and fish) of the "Voyage autour du Monde sur la Fregate La Vénus" (11 volumes of text) was published in 1855, the section on birds was published in 1849.

On the first page of the Ornithology section of the 1855 "Zoologie" (p.177), Prévost is mentioned first, then Des (des?) Murs. Were their names reversed in 1849, hence the species citation as Ptilinopus mercierii (Des Murs and Prévost) 1849?
 
Last edited:
Capreolus said:
On the first page of the Ornithology section of the 1855 "Zoologie" (p.177), Prévost is mentioned first, then Des (des?) Murs. Were their names reversed in 1849, hence the species citation as Ptilinopus mercierii (Des Murs and Prévost) 1849?
Click to expand...

For some taxa it is Fl. Prévost and O. des Murs:
Grallaria squamigera, Grallaria guatemalensis, Tanagra (Calliste) rufivertex, Emberiza biarcuata, Kurukuru nebouxii, Kurukuru Dupetit-Thouarsii, Anous cinereous,

and for others O. des Murs and Fl. Prévost:
Kurukuru superbus, Kurukuru temminckii, Kurukuru taïtensis, Kurukuru swainsonii, Kurukuru mercierii.
 
Putting everyone's wonderful responses together, I am going to go with Richard's idea. I have read everything I could get my hands on today, and I just found out that there was a Jardine Botanique in Geneve, where mb1848's M. P. Mercier, or Marie-Philippe Mercier studied with Augustin Pyramus de Candolle. When I looked at the card that was attached to the specimen, it said what mb1848 said, that the specimen was received by the museum in 1848. That did not appear to be a date that had anything to do with when Mercier lived. Thank you all so much for chiming in on this! I have come up with another quandary, but I am trying to do your kind of research on it before I present it here.
 
Susan Manchester said:
When I looked at the card that was attached to the specimen, it said what mb1848 said, that the specimen was received by the museum in 1848. That did not appear to be a date that had anything to do with when Mercier lived.
Click to expand...

But Fl. Prévost and O. des Murs wrote that the unique individual was killed by M. Mercier, in the Mohana valley (p. 267) and was brought by him in the museum in 1848, under the name Crimson-capped Kurukuru Dove (p. 266).

... and that Kurukuru Dupetit-Thouarsii was also brought by him (p. 242).
 
Another couple of references placing Mercier (working for, or sponsored by the Museum of Natural History, Paris) in the Marquesas (Nuku Hiva) in 1848. The french influence in the Marquesas was still very young, and I doubt there was another Mercier at that time in the Marquesas doing bioassays (apparently principally a botanist, but back then so many fashioned themselves as naturalists in their discovery of unknown biota).

Search within the documents is necessary:

http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontributions/Botany/pdf_hi/sctb-0023.pdf
http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/dspace/bitstream/handle/2246/3850/N0933.pdf?sequence=1
 
Last edited:
OK, OK! I give! I am off again on mercieri, Daniel and Steve! Richard, who is Marie Philippe? I guess I should go back through all these posts again, but right now I am running off to the Museum of Science and History for Leap Day. I will check when I get back. I have gotten communications back from the Museum national d'Histoire naturelle in Paris. Maybe they will know something. That was such a huge thrill for me; I am framing the letters!
 
Here is what I got from the Museum:

On June 8th 1848 they registered a donation from M. Mercier :
- 93 plants from the Marquesian Is
- 38 plants from Brazil and Chile

Not Marie Philippe Mercier 1781-1831 who travelled in Martinique and stayed in Geneva
Not Elysée Mercier de Copey 1802-1863, botanist from Genes.
And there are no other Mercier in the archives.
 
Daniel, I REALLY appreciate your efforts on my behalf! I saw a few things yesterday about a Lemercier who collected in the Marquesas. I even saw something about a Baron Mercier. I am still on the trail.
 
Susan Manchester said:
Daniel, I REALLY appreciate your efforts on my behalf! I saw a few things yesterday about a Lemercier who collected in the Marquesas. I even saw something about a Baron Mercier. I am still on the trail.
Click to expand...

Susan, it is probably "le Mercier", le being an article. Articals are very commonly used in names here in Europe, e.g. de Kok (my name). "de" is Dutch for the French "le".

Another example is Pomatorhinus erythrogenys dedekensi. Oustalet wrote he was accompanied by "Père Dedekens", whilst this name should be written as "de Deken" (the -s is incorrect too, but must stand in the Latin name).

Theo
 
8669 said:
Susan, it is probably "le Mercier", le being an article. Articals are very commonly used in names here in Europe, e.g. de Kok (my name). "de" is Dutch for the French "le".
Click to expand...

But "le" and other modifiers like "de" ("of" in French) do tend to get attached to the main word; if you look up the name "Lemaire" and "Delarue" you can see that happening. At least in French. Not so much in German and Dutch, it seems, the von's and van's are more rigidly separated.
 
But Prévost and des Murs in their description of the species (1849) do not refer to the collector of the type specimen as M[onsieur]. Le Mercier, or M. Lemercier, but as M. Mercier, undoubtedly the same M. Mercier whom Daniel noted above, who donated 93 plant specimens from the Marquesas to the Paris museum in 1848. According to Prévost and des Murs, Mercier also brought the type specimen of P. mercierii, which he had collected on Nuku Hiva, to the Paris museum in 1848.
 

Similar threads

Taphrospilus
Riccordia ricordii (Gervais, 1835)
Replies
8
Views
800
Taphrospilus
Taphrospilus
Taphrospilus
Passerina leclancherii Lafresnaye, 1840 & Ptilinopus leclancheri (Bonaparte, 1855)
Replies
0
Views
556
Taphrospilus
Taphrospilus
Taphrospilus
Picus vaillantii (Malherbe 1847)
Replies
5
Views
567
Gonçalo Elias
Gonçalo Elias
Taphrospilus
Ptilinopus leclancheri gironieri (J. Verreaux & Des Murs, 1862) and others
Replies
9
Views
987
Björn Bergenholtz
Björn Bergenholtz
Taphrospilus
Lophotriorchis lucani R. B. Sharpe & Bouvier, 1877 & Pternistes lucani Barbosa du Bocage, 1879
Replies
1
Views
407
l_raty
l_raty

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top