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Sony RX10 1V the new boy.

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Old Tuesday 20th February 2018, 20:00   #101
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What PP program do you use as there is a margin for improvement on these which would give a better idea of the cameras capabilities,
I would like to try it on one but need your permission, if not then thats ok.

mike
You can play with anything you like with or without permission but post processing doesn't change a camera's abilities, really, it only modifies the resulting image to your taste. And it certainly doesn't change a camera's abilities for those who are seeking good out of camera results without post processing :)

I still haven't gotten any serious testing of the camera's BiF abilities in, hopefully in the next week or two. Overall my opinion remains the same - image quality is fine for my use, which is identifying rare / hard to ID birds. Whether that holds under challenging conditions (moving boat and seabirds against white caps, or dark birds in the understory of dark tropical forest) remains to be seen. Thus far it appears that the electronic viewfinder will be a much larger hindrance to performance than the autofocus performance.
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Old Tuesday 20th February 2018, 20:01   #102
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Well I've cracked. I was about to order from Panamoz but they're closed for the Chinese new year. I'll be ordering in two days though.
Hope it treats you well when you get it and I look forward to your thoughts!
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Old Tuesday 20th February 2018, 20:12   #103
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Hope it treats you well when you get it and I look forward to your thoughts!
I think the thing that swung me was wandering round Rome all day with just the 7D and a 17 - 50mm lens and thinking how the weight didn't bother me at all. This combination still weighed about 200g more than the Sony.

I ordered today and I am presently investigating flashes.
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Old Tuesday 20th February 2018, 20:23   #104
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You can play with anything you like with or without permission but post processing doesn't change a camera's abilities, really, it only modifies the resulting image to your taste. And it certainly doesn't change a camera's abilities for those who are seeking good out of camera results without post processing :)

I still haven't gotten any serious testing of the camera's BiF abilities in, hopefully in the next week or two. Overall my opinion remains the same - image quality is fine for my use, which is identifying rare / hard to ID birds. Whether that holds under challenging conditions (moving boat and seabirds against white caps, or dark birds in the understory of dark tropical forest) remains to be seen. Thus far it appears that the electronic viewfinder will be a much larger hindrance to performance than the autofocus performance.

You are correct it does not show a camera's ability, most cameras though have inbuilt jpeg tweaks for bringing the image up and if i have improved the results it would mean the jpeg settings in camera could be adjusted a bit, if in your opinion i haven't improved the result then ok.
I have no experience with Sony factory settings but i do know with Nikon the jpeg results can be very poor without in-camera adjustments, it is ann adjustment you only make once.

Original first then my copy
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Old Tuesday 20th February 2018, 20:32   #105
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I wouldn't say the result is truly better. The raw quality comes down to dynamic range and resolution abilities of the camera, light metering, image stabilization, and focus accuracy, all within the bounds of the photographer's skill and the atmospheric conditions, and many other things not listed of course. I will certainly tweak the jpeg settings over time but I don't kid myself that that will make better images. Perhaps more pleasing in terms of higher contrast and saturation, but not any more useful for me. I readily admit I am far more concerned with not spending my time post-processing than I am about ultimate image quality; I figured this out years ago and haven't shot in RAW in a long time, quality loss be damned :)

Not trying to be provocative, that is just my opinion.
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Old Tuesday 20th February 2018, 20:50   #106
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I wouldn't say the result is truly better. The raw quality comes down to dynamic range and resolution abilities of the camera, light metering, image stabilization, and focus accuracy, all within the bounds of the photographer's skill and the atmospheric conditions, and many other things not listed of course. I will certainly tweak the jpeg settings over time but I don't kid myself that that will make better images. Perhaps more pleasing in terms of higher contrast and saturation, but not any more useful for me. I readily admit I am far more concerned with not spending my time post-processing than I am about ultimate image quality; I figured this out years ago and haven't shot in RAW in a long time, quality loss be damned :)

Not trying to be provocative, that is just my opinion.
I understand what your saying totaly, we all want different things.
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Old Wednesday 28th February 2018, 16:56   #107
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Mine's arrived and I've had chance for a little play. It's certainly - to use a cliche - a steep learning curve. I was rather hindered by gloves and my chance to play was caused by work being closed due to snow. My initial feelings are that once I'm used to it, it will be have as good handling as an SLR - possibly better. The 24fps sounds great but IMO totally over-the top so gone for medium which i think is 12fps. The photos don't look as good to me as my 7D mark ii and 100 - 400 combination but I guess that's to be expected and also may be due to my lack of experience with the camera and the far from ideal conditions. Photo below ISO1600. It has been sharpened but no noise reduction. Obviously it has been massively reduced in size. I think it will be become my most used camera but I not sure yet if I'll be selling the SLR.

The white dots are snow not noise!
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Old Sunday 4th March 2018, 10:23   #108
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Excellent Steve, I expect the RX10iv will get a lot of use in this cold snap we are experiencing in the UK. Have fun!
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Old Sunday 4th March 2018, 14:29   #109
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Excellent Steve, I expect the RX10iv will get a lot of use in this cold snap we are experiencing in the UK. Have fun!
Actually I can't wait for spring and a upcoming trip to Thailand. It'll get a lot more then.
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Old Saturday 31st March 2018, 16:56   #110
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Well just got this after spending the last few years with Panasonic. Im confused about setting the custom setting i.e C1 & C2. Can anyone provide any assistance with this please?
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Old Sunday 1st April 2018, 20:25   #111
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I haven't bothered with the C1, C2 or C3 buttons yet. In order to use them, after you have programmed them, you have to hold them down whilst pressing the shutter button, which ideally requires two right index fingers.... So far anyway, I'm just using the same settings for perched birds and birds in flight (just as I do most of the time with my Canon7Dii).
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Old Sunday 1st April 2018, 22:47   #112
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With most Sony cameras, the function of the 'C' buttons is dependent on what function you decide to save there - some of the modes you can set to those buttons do not require keeping your finger on them - some simply access the setting (aka, ISO, WB, etc) with a press, make changes, then continue shooting. If you use those custom buttons for things like AE lock, AF, and so on, then you usually have a choice between 'toggle' or 'hold' - hold requiring you to keep your finger on the button, while toggle allows it to function with one press to engage, and one press to disengage, with no need to keep your finger on it. When you go into the menu to set up the custom button assignments, you'll see a list of all the various settings you can place on each button, based on what functions or controls you'd like quickest access to. You can even move functions that are assigned somewhere else - so they're where you prefer them (for example, I moved ISO on my camera from where it is by default to the C1 button, where it's more comfortable for me to access since that puts it in the same location it is on my DSLRs). I can then reassign the old location of ISO to something else.
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Old Monday 2nd April 2018, 12:35   #113
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Thank you. I hadn't found the 'toggle' and 'hold' options and will look for that....
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Old Tuesday 3rd April 2018, 15:44   #114
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I haven't bothered with the C1, C2 or C3 buttons yet. In order to use them, after you have programmed them, you have to hold them down whilst pressing the shutter button, which ideally requires two right index fingers.... So far anyway, I'm just using the same settings for perched birds and birds in flight (just as I do most of the time with my Canon7Dii).
Steve thanks very much for the reply, if you don't mind me asking what settings are you using for perched and flight birds?

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Old Tuesday 3rd April 2018, 15:46   #115
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Originally Posted by Zackiedawg View Post
With most Sony cameras, the function of the 'C' buttons is dependent on what function you decide to save there - some of the modes you can set to those buttons do not require keeping your finger on them - some simply access the setting (aka, ISO, WB, etc) with a press, make changes, then continue shooting. If you use those custom buttons for things like AE lock, AF, and so on, then you usually have a choice between 'toggle' or 'hold' - hold requiring you to keep your finger on the button, while toggle allows it to function with one press to engage, and one press to disengage, with no need to keep your finger on it. When you go into the menu to set up the custom button assignments, you'll see a list of all the various settings you can place on each button, based on what functions or controls you'd like quickest access to. You can even move functions that are assigned somewhere else - so they're where you prefer them (for example, I moved ISO on my camera from where it is by default to the C1 button, where it's more comfortable for me to access since that puts it in the same location it is on my DSLRs). I can then reassign the old location of ISO to something else.
Thanks for the reply. Is there a way to keep the settings I use for Aperture Priority and Shutter Priority?

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Old Tuesday 3rd April 2018, 17:36   #116
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If you're looking to save certain settings in different modes like Aperture Priority and Shutter priority, then best to use the MR banks to store those. Each MR mode on the dial can save quite a number of settings together for easy access - including the shooting mode. So, if you set the camera to A priority mode, single frame, Flex spot center, center-weight metering, Auto ISO 100-1600, Auto WB, etc...you can then to go the menu, and save all of that to MR1. Then switch the mode dial back to S priority, set to a starting default of 1/1000, wide focus area, 8fps continuous drive, matrix metering, Auto ISO 100-3200, etc., you can save all of that to MR2.

Now, rather than going to S or A on the mode dial, you go to MR1 for your A-priority setup with all your saved settings, or MR2 for your S-priority setup with all your saved settings.

I believe as far as all the custom button assignments go, those are saved universally for the camera, across all modes. So there isn't a way that I know of to have C1 be set to ISO in one mode, and be set to Eye-focus in another, for example. C1 will always be whatever you assign to it, no matter the mode you're in.
Hope that helps.
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Old Tuesday 3rd April 2018, 21:26   #117
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Originally Posted by Zackiedawg View Post
If you're looking to save certain settings in different modes like Aperture Priority and Shutter priority, then best to use the MR banks to store those. Each MR mode on the dial can save quite a number of settings together for easy access - including the shooting mode. So, if you set the camera to A priority mode, single frame, Flex spot center, center-weight metering, Auto ISO 100-1600, Auto WB, etc...you can then to go the menu, and save all of that to MR1. Then switch the mode dial back to S priority, set to a starting default of 1/1000, wide focus area, 8fps continuous drive, matrix metering, Auto ISO 100-3200, etc., you can save all of that to MR2.

Now, rather than going to S or A on the mode dial, you go to MR1 for your A-priority setup with all your saved settings, or MR2 for your S-priority setup with all your saved settings.

I believe as far as all the custom button assignments go, those are saved universally for the camera, across all modes. So there isn't a way that I know of to have C1 be set to ISO in one mode, and be set to Eye-focus in another, for example. C1 will always be whatever you assign to it, no matter the mode you're in.
Hope that helps.
Thanks so much - thats just what I wanted to know, appreciated..
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Old Wednesday 4th April 2018, 12:21   #118
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I guess I still need to look at those C and MR settings options, but for the time being I'm finding it quite OK just to leave the camera on Continuos Autofocus and Expand Flexible Spot for both perched birds and birds in flight.
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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 22:16   #119
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Steve thanks very much for the reply, if you don't mind me asking what settings are you using for perched and flight birds?

Cheers
There's some useful advice here on settings for birds in flight and perched:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thre...-post-60501653

I have very recently purchased an RX10 iv and have had some success using these settings, saved in MR, although I'm still very much on a learning curve.
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Old Sunday 15th April 2018, 16:38   #120
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Im having real problems saving settings to my memory 1, 2, 3. I am setting the camera up to how I want it for example my chosen settings for a-priorty then going into the menu finding the option 1/2/3 memory and then pressing the centre button to confirm it as M1/2/3 etc. However when I go back to select the memory option 1/2/3 etc it hasn't saved
Any help appreciated
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Old Sunday 15th April 2018, 16:41   #121
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I'm having even greater problems: mine has gone constantly on movie mode whatever I put the dial on!
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Old Sunday 15th April 2018, 17:32   #122
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Make sure when you're going into the menu to save the settings that you're not going into "Memory Recall" and then choosing 1/2/3...that's for accessing those settings...but for saving the settings, you have to go into 'Memory'. This is where you can select 1, 2, or 3, and hit center button to save the settings to that memory bank. Then to access them, go to MR on the mode dial and choose 1, 2, or 3.
Memory is for saving the settings, Memory Recall is for accessing them. Hopefully that helps.
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Old Sunday 15th April 2018, 21:37   #123
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Make sure when you're going into the menu to save the settings that you're not going into "Memory Recall" and then choosing 1/2/3...that's for accessing those settings...but for saving the settings, you have to go into 'Memory'. This is where you can select 1, 2, or 3, and hit center button to save the settings to that memory bank. Then to access them, go to MR on the mode dial and choose 1, 2, or 3.
Memory is for saving the settings, Memory Recall is for accessing them. Hopefully that helps.
'The Guru'

Sorted thank you !!
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Old Friday 20th April 2018, 19:44   #124
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I'm having even greater problems: mine has gone constantly on movie mode whatever I put the dial on!
And now it is working. I'm still going through photos but I think my SLR days are over.
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Old Sunday 6th May 2018, 11:56   #125
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So having played with the camera a lot now, and having recently taken it on the 35 day Atlantic Odyssey, here are my thoughts:

-It is a very capable and very good bridge camera, probably the best out there.

-It is still a long, long ways behind my Canon 7d2 and 100-400mk2 for birds in flight, seabirds, focus tracking, and most most most importantly, being able to actually find targets in the viewfinder. It was nearly useless for photographing Storm-Petrels, Diving-Petrels, and Prions, which is where the majority of the ID challenges are and where photos are most necessary, for me. Basically the EVF is a massive hindrance and it doesn’t matter if the focus tracking is really fancy the EVF makes it worlds harder to get on birds. When you do get on a bird the smaller sensor and slower lens are more noticeable than I expected for small seabirds in flight.

-The MR settings recall is unnecessarily cumbersome. I found it best to use one MR setting for center point focus for perched birds and then just use Aperature Priority for birds in flight. This is far from ideal. Sony’s custom setting recall is really a step behind, forcing you to jog the dial then jog it back then use the menu (with lag) to select a custom set. This is pretty pathetic in a $1700 camera.

-The custom buttons can be programmed to recall a MR setting but only while depressed. This gives the idea of using the camera with perched bird settings and pressing and holding a C button to put it in BiF mode and then release the C button after taking BiF pictures. Except the C buttons aren’t located anywhere that this is possible for those who don’t have two index fingers, as noted above.

So overall a lovely camera with a great lens and great sensor, that performs about as expected but is really crippled IMHO by the custom settings implementation and even more crippled by the EVF. I guess it answers the question, to me, of whether bridge cameras can replace DSLRs for seabirds and I would say it is a very clear no. However it is realistically a good replacement at 1/3 the weight for field birding / record shots / rarities / photos for ID later and the like when birding on land.
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