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Sony RX10 1V the new boy.

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Old Sunday 6th May 2018, 15:35   #126
Andy Hall
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I don't even understand most of the technical jargon you guys are using. Anyway, here's my take on the Sony RX10 Mkiv

http://birdsandfood.blogspot.co.uk/2...ew-camera.html
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Old Sunday 6th May 2018, 15:57   #127
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I find the evf pretty good. Certainly light years ahead of the Canon SX50 I've used which I admit is old technology. I'm sorting through my Thailand photos and I have to admit I failed to focus more times than I would expect but I was still getting used to it. I also don't seem to be able to hold it as steady as a SLR and 100 - 400 or the Canon mark ii stabiliser is better than the Sony's. I suspect the former.

Re noise this Sib blue robin was taken at ISO8000. I admit that it would have been btter at ISO8,000 with my Canon 7d mark ii but as I would have been using a f5.6 rather than f4 it would have been at ISO16,000. It has been worked on but I have not used noise reduction. Obviously it has lost some quality with resizing too.

I won't be getting rid of the SLR for a bit - but I don't suspect I'll use it much, apart from for macro work.
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Old Sunday 6th May 2018, 16:00   #128
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Actually that looks rubbish. This is a ISO8,000 too and has had nothing done to it apart from being converted to jpeg and resized for uploading.
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Old Saturday 2nd June 2018, 14:54   #129
Andy Hall
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Really enjoying my RX10 Mkiv and getting good results. One thing I can't sort out, is how to turn off the LCD. I've put a little bit of blue-tak over the eye sensor, but is there an official way?
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Old Saturday 2nd June 2018, 18:31   #130
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Originally Posted by Andy Hall View Post
Really enjoying my RX10 Mkiv and getting good results. One thing I can't sort out, is how to turn off the LCD. I've put a little bit of blue-tak over the eye sensor, but is there an official way?
Does it have the same menu as the a6000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=wbwBXkJ-WVA
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Old Saturday 2nd June 2018, 19:14   #131
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Does it have the same menu as the a6000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=wbwBXkJ-WVA
No, but you might have pointed me in the right direction
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Old Saturday 2nd June 2018, 19:20   #132
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Really enjoying my RX10 Mkiv and getting good results. One thing I can't sort out, is how to turn off the LCD. I've put a little bit of blue-tak over the eye sensor, but is there an official way?
Yes. Go to shooting menu 2, page 7. There is an option for FINDER/MONITOR. If you change that from Auto to Viewfinder(Manual), only the viewfinder will show anything, though it still uses the eye sensor so there's still a fraction of a second lag time.

One thing I don't quite like about that is that it won't use the rear LCD for playback, but since you've got blue-tak over the eye sensor anyway that's probably not a big deal for you.
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Old Saturday 2nd June 2018, 20:19   #133
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Yes. Go to shooting menu 2, page 7. There is an option for FINDER/MONITOR. If you change that from Auto to Viewfinder(Manual), only the viewfinder will show anything, though it still uses the eye sensor so there's still a fraction of a second lag time.

One thing I don't quite like about that is that it won't use the rear LCD for playback, but since you've got blue-tak over the eye sensor anyway that's probably not a big deal for you.
It's odd that it doesn't offer the option of evf for taking photos and LCD for viewing however I soon got used to using the evf for looking at them as well.
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Old Saturday 2nd June 2018, 22:08   #134
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It's odd that it doesn't offer the option of evf for taking photos and LCD for viewing however I soon got used to using the evf for looking at them as well.
For me personally, I like to cull a good number of photos in camera when I have downtime, so an eye would be up to the EVF for a few minutes at a time.

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Does it have the same menu as the a6000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=wbwBXkJ-WVA
Thanks Mike for posting that; that's a good workaround. It's not perfect: LCD isn't completely off, there's still the EVF lag, and the camera doesn't remember the setting when you switch the camera off/on. But the LCD is still used for menus and playback. I'll be using that from now on
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Old Monday 4th June 2018, 13:56   #135
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It's a similar thing but I've customised a button to swap between LCD and evf so I can quickly toggle between the two: evf for general photogaphy, LCD for low down close-ups, when I don't want to lie down, and prolonged viewing of shots.
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Old Monday 4th June 2018, 17:35   #136
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I have the screen off all the time, except that I can turn it on and off by simply pressing C1 on the occasions that I want to use it.
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Old Wednesday 20th June 2018, 11:03   #137
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Users' final thoughts ...

It's been several weeks since a number of people on here took the plunge and bought the RX10 IV. I would be very interested to hear their opinions on the camera, now that they have been using it for a while.

For those who previously used a DSLR, do you see the Sony as a replacement or just as a complement to your other gear? What would you say are the biggest downsides or frustrations in using it?

I currently use a Nikon D7200 with the 300mm F4 PF lens and a 1.4X converter. It's a lightweight set-up by DSLR standards, but not particularly flexible. I don't really do much with my photographs (in terms of printing etc), so I sometimes think an all-in-one camera would suit my needs.

There is a lot about the Sony that appeals to me, but the hefty price tag makes me hesitate. Can it really be worth it?

All comments much appreciated.

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Old Wednesday 20th June 2018, 18:34   #138
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I'm still struggling to answer that. I have a five week trip to Malaysia coming up before too long and plan to make the decision whether to sell my 100 - 400 SLR lens after that. On a trip to Thailand with the Sony I felt I got fewer 'keepers' than I would have done with a SLR but I was very new to the camera. And it's hard to say; I've often got back from trips dispppointed by my photographic results. I will say that I have used a SLR once since I've had it and that was for macro work. It has a pretty good close focus at 600mm equivalent at full zoom. In fact for general wildlife it is pretty similar to having the mark ii 100 - 400 Canon but it's no substitute for a macro lens.

I guess I can afford to keep both but I suspect I will find it very hard to justify keeping a lens I could sell for about a thousand quid and almost never use it. It will probably keep my SLR body, which is looking rather tatty and so probably not worth much anyway, and my macro.

Sorry not a great answer. Really it depends on how important lightness is to you: to me it is very important and how important getting the best quality photos is: I'm remembering that I am a birder/naturalist first and a photographer second.
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Old Wednesday 20th June 2018, 23:46   #139
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Thank you, Steve, for taking the trouble to reply. Like you, I am a birder first and a photographer second.

I guess I'm right in assuming, from your reply, that you're not completely blown away by the Sony. It's not a case of "Eureka! I've found the ideal replacement for my DSLR."

I'll be interested to hear your report from your forthcoming trip.

Thanks again for your input. Much appreciated.

Malcolm
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Old Thursday 21st June 2018, 13:47   #140
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Iím a birder first, have never owned a DSLR and have previously relied purely on digiscoping to obtain images. For me the RX10 iv has been a revelation. What tempted me to finally take the plunge was the combination of great lens, very capable autofocus and larger than usual (for a bridge) sensor. Under decent light/reasonable proximity I have taken some very pleasing shots and the ability to capture birds in flight has been incredibly useful. This is a camera which can do most things well, it seems, and I have found myself branching out into other areas of photography, rather than just wildlife.

I guess in comparison to a DSLR it might lose out somewhat in low light conditions and start up time may lag a little. The battery life isnít wonderful, but itís easy enough to carry a couple of spares. The bottom line is that I really donít want to be lugging a weighty and expensive DSLR kit around with me while out birding, and this has proved the best all-round solution for my needs. Whether or not itís worth the outlay is up to each individual, but itís a big thumbs up from me.
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Old Thursday 21st June 2018, 14:21   #141
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My thoughts really haven't changed. It's lovely that it is so lightweight compared to a DSLR. Lens and sensor are great. Autofocus is pretty good but not on par with my 7DII. For perched birds it is completely fine for me.

However for BiF, particularly seabirds, I find it basically useless. The EVF makes it impossible to see if you are getting focus (or even have in the frame) a smallish distant seabird. It is also slow to startup and slow to extend the zoom lens.

I am just about decided to sell mine, it really doesn't get close enough to a DSLR for my desires/needs.
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Old Thursday 21st June 2018, 16:52   #142
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I can see that eg storm petrels low over the sea from a boat and the autofocus won't match a DSLR but, for just about everything else, I find the Sony's autofocus amazing for birds in flight, eg swifts, distant hawking little gulls as well as easier things like raptors. My bottom line is that the overall image quality isn't up to the Canon 7Dii, but it is very acceptable considering the massive drop in weight. I'm keeping my 7Dii + 400DO + 1.4x (and my 800mm) for when I'm twitching or after a particular target but, when I'm just walking around hoping (90% of the time), I now carry the Sony all the time. The 100-400ii hasn't come out of the drawer since I got the Sony. Oh, and the Sony is actually better for butterflies & dragonflies (and flowers), so it's a do-all in one much lighter package.

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Old Thursday 21st June 2018, 16:53   #143
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I will say if I had all my gear nicked I wouldn't consider replacing the SLR stuff but would replace the Sony - I just couldn't go back to lugging that gear but then I will often spend ten hours walking around in mountains. It's whether to take quite a loss and sell the SLR gear or keep it for times when weight doesn't matter. It's not far from the quality of an SLR but it isn't there yet. The start up time is okay if you let it go to standby on maximum zoom then it reverts to that when you touch the shutter button. I find the evf absolutely fine but I rarely photograph distant seabirds. I have taken lots of birds in flight, but usually pretty close. I do find that sometimes it appears to not focus for no apparent reason, generally on fairly close stuff then it will just snap into focus. Going back to the standby, having it swinging from your shoulder does seem to make it reluctant to go into standby and it does get through the batteries so this matters. 24 fps just mad. I put it on medium but some people may want this.
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Old Thursday 21st June 2018, 17:17   #144
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I think it really depends on what you want. If you want to ID distant distant BiF and seabirds it is pretty useless as you can’t find the birds in the EVF. Beyond that it is about as good as you can hope for in terms of a bridge camera...

I pretty much only use the camera for distant/difficult seabirds and raptors any more so, for me, it doesn’t really make the grade.
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Old Thursday 21st June 2018, 20:52   #145
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Many thanks to you all for your feedback. It is much appreciated. Most of my photography is, as Steve Gantlett puts it, wandering around hoping. I don't do much low-light work or BIFs, so it sounds as if the RX10 IV could fit the bill.

Its portability and versatility appeal to me. It's the price tag that makes me hesitate.

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Old Friday 22nd June 2018, 10:03   #146
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However for BiF, particularly seabirds, I find it basically useless. The EVF makes it impossible to see if you are getting focus (or even have in the frame) a smallish distant seabird.
Disclaimer: I don't have a RX10iv, and little opportunity for seabird-watching. - Do you think this failure is model-specific, or is it a more general EVF/OVF issue? I've encountered cases where I found an OVF (of a Canon 450D, or a bino's) much superior to an EVF. For example, larks sitting in a field, 25-30m away. Very hard to locate with an EVF... much easier with an optical viewfinder. Could this be a similar phenomenon for seabird-watching - I assume it's mostly birds in a distance, sometimes hard to locate near the waves or at the horizon?
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Old Friday 22nd June 2018, 16:03   #147
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Though not the original commenter, I wanted to just offer some reply to HermitIbis on EVF vs OVF with regard to BIFs of all types. First off, I've been a long-time BIF shooter, with both DSLRs and mirrorless - many times I've gone out with BOTH types, and switched from OVF to EVF throughout the day. I will say that EVFs in general can be just as good as OVF, once you've become accustomed to them, with the caveat that not all EVFs are equal.

Generally, the best EVFs are going to be the ones that offer a true live refresh or 'live view' mode, where there's minimal delay that's approximately the same as the shutter blackout on an OVF, that allows you to easily acquire a distant subject and maintain it in the finder while panning and shooting. Older EVFs usually would display a 'slideshow' effect, where what you were seeing while shooting a burst of photos was a succession of the last shot taken - which meant you were always at least 1 full frame behind the action. Not bad with a big, slow bird moving consistently, but not good for small distant birds, erratic and fast birds. Newer EVFs have solved that issue with real-time display up to certain burst speeds.
Other factors include refresh rates and frame rates - newer EVFs have significantly improved the refresh speeds, and also allow up to 120fps on the EVFs making them much more accurate, no staggering or stutter, etc.
Setting up the EVF properly can help, and also setting up the camera properly for best BIF shooting. Of course, some people may have trouble adapting to EVFs in general, even good ones, if they've spent their whole lives with OVFs...but as someone who shot OVFs since 1977, and EVFs since 1997, I've been able to adapt to both -and also watched the EVFs get significantly better along the way. I'd suggest on the RX10IV, if shooting action/BIF, to switch the 'display quality' setting to 'high' - which should increase the screen refresh from 60fps to 120fps, for smoother and better panning. Next, I'd recommend turning OFF the 'pre-AF' in the menu. This will essentially make the camera behave a bit more like a DSLR...pre-AF has the autofocus constantly working on the camera, even when you're not half-pressing the shutter, which sometimes means strange hunting or catching up when you try to acquire a distant subject. Turning off pre-AF means it won't make any attempt to adjust focus until you tell it to - so even if you were just shooting a macro from 4 feet, and now want to shoot a distant bird, the EVF will be complete blur (just like an OVF would be at minimum focus distance if you tried to look at a subject 200 yards away)...and when you half-press, the focus will go into its highest speed mode to try to acquire the subject...I find it acquires distant subjects much more quickly this way. The one thing missing on the RX10IV's viewfinder is the specialized 'live view' mode as on the A6300 and 6500, or the even better blackout-free mode as on the A9. So there will always be a slight lag in the finder, whether in 10fps mode where you get a very-quickly-refreshing slideshow effect (about .10 sec behind), or a continuous video feed at 24fps, but with the video delayed by about .10 to .15). This can generally be overcome once you get used to these systems, though might present a challenge if shooting something like martins, swifts, or swallows in full swoop from 30 feet, with their erratic movements.
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Old Friday 22nd June 2018, 18:10   #148
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Disclaimer: I don't have a RX10iv, and little opportunity for seabird-watching. - Do you think this failure is model-specific, or is it a more general EVF/OVF issue? I've encountered cases where I found an OVF (of a Canon 450D, or a bino's) much superior to an EVF. For example, larks sitting in a field, 25-30m away. Very hard to locate with an EVF... much easier with an optical viewfinder. Could this be a similar phenomenon for seabird-watching - I assume it's mostly birds in a distance, sometimes hard to locate near the waves or at the horizon?
This does repeat the above a bit but I think the evf is probably about as good as they get. I have had several 'superzooms' and hated the evfs. This is a whole new level. No it's not as good as ovf but for me it's pretty impressive and I find using the evf of the Sony much less of a problem than I thought I would.
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Old Monday 25th June 2018, 02:01   #149
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Thank you, Justin and Steve, for your replies. Several BIF-ers have sold their Nikon V3 for the Sony RX10iv, and one day I might follow. DSLRs are heavy.

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This does repeat the above a bit but I think the evf is probably about as good as they get. I have had several 'superzooms' and hated the evfs. This is a whole new level. No it's not as good as ovf but for me it's pretty impressive and I find using the evf of the Sony much less of a problem than I thought I would.
I have the Nikon V3 with a similar quality EVF - 2.4 million dots, like the Sony. A massive improvement over the V2's EVF. When it's easy to shoot a tern flying over the Rhine, can distant seabirds pose such a problem? If the EVF isn't the real culprit, can it be a version of "camera struggling with BIF against a messy background"? Perhaps among the myriad of settings (mentioned by Justin) there is one which can solve the seabird problem.
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Old Wednesday 18th July 2018, 16:32   #150
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On the Sony RX10iv vs SLR debate, I've just shot 130 RAW shots at 10fps before it slowed down (admittedly more-or-less to a halt). My Canon 7D mark ii would have lasted 21 RAW shots.
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