UK Hawfinch occurence last weekend....? (1 Viewer)

Xenospiza · Oct 19, 2017

The Dutch migration record for Hawfinch was broken this week: 266 over The Hague on 16 October.
http://www.trektellen.nl/count/view/28/20171016?language=english

KenM · Oct 19, 2017

Xenospiza said:
The Dutch migration record for Hawfinch was broken this week: 266 over The Hague on 16 October.
http://www.trektellen.nl/count/view/28/20171016?language=english

.....makes you wonder what the previous Hague 'one day' record count was ? :eek!:

rosbifs · Oct 20, 2017

KenM said:
.....makes you wonder what the previous Hague 'one day' record count was ? :eek!:

1277 over the last 10 years with 459 this year, so far
http://www.trektellen.nl/site/yeartotals/28/2017

KenM · Oct 20, 2017

rosbifs said:
1277 over the last 10 years with 459 this year, so far
http://www.trektellen.nl/site/yeartotals/28/2017

Thanks for that rosbifs, :t: Hawfinches to one side for the moment. The Hague data has proved most illuminating!....a five fold increase on YBW between 2013 and 2014! and just 2 records of Common Nightingale in 2009 over the same period as YBW 2008-2017. From my perspective, too much of a coincidence, as I also recorded both species in Central London during the "same" years as the Hague's, the only difference being that both my records were rejected, even though I supplied images of the latter! Clearly the Dutch are more enlightened, in future I'll send my records to the Dutch...as they appear to be less "risk" averse.

Back to topic...another two Hawfinches within a flock of circa a dozen Chaffinches yesterday (didn't know that they "mixed?") heading North East.

PS has anybody else noted Hawfinch flying with other finches?

Cheers

Xenospiza · Oct 20, 2017

I checked the local maples today: no fruit at all. I would leave too if I were a Hawfinch!

halftwo · Oct 21, 2017

KenM said:
PS has anybody else noted Hawfinch flying with other finches?

Cheers

My three lots (1, 3, 4) were all either alone (species wise) or with Skylarks in the last instance - though I think that was coincidental to a raptor reaction.

KenM · Oct 21, 2017

halftwo said:
My three lots (1, 3, 4) were all either alone (species wise) or with Skylarks in the last instance - though I think that was coincidental to a raptor reaction.

Yes...all of my previous sightings have been single through the digits up to 6 (in flight), never with other finches, except when found ground feeding with other finches (Green/Chaff and Bramblings).

mayoayo · Oct 29, 2017

We are also having unprecented numbers of Hawfinches passing bythis fall..large flocks have been seen around Barcelona ,along with Siskins...both species are unusual in these numbers...

aeshna5 · Oct 29, 2017

Week before last saw a flock of over 20 fly over me in southern Spain while we were sitting by a stream near farmland. Not sure how normal these are here?

Caught up with 2 to the west of London today + a possible 3 (distant in poor light) yesterday.

Nutcracker · Oct 30, 2017

Xenospiza said:
I checked the local maples today: no fruit at all. I would leave too if I were a Hawfinch!

I checked local (southeast Northumbs) tree seed crops today; on a scale 0-10 where 0=zero crop and 10=bumper crop:
Ash 0
Beech 2
Hornbeam 4
Lime 3
Maple 5
Yew 6

So not good amounts of seed, but enough to feed some Hawfinches for at least the first part of the winter. Yet still none around here yet.

KenM · Oct 30, 2017

Nutcracker said:
I checked local (southeast Northumbs) tree seed crops today; on a scale 0-10 where 0=zero crop and 10=bumper crop:
Ash 0
Beech 2
Hornbeam 4
Lime 3
Maple 5
Yew 6

So not good amounts of seed, but enough to feed some Hawfinches for at least the first part of the winter. Yet still none around here yet.

Some interesting data there Nutty! Would be good to compare those figures with elsewhere.

The influx still appears to be running into high numbers (in Greater London certainly). At the weekend Saturday (circa 20+) and Sunday (c15+) as per London Wiki Birds being reported for the area. Today I had two going South at 6.50 am (taking no prisoners en-route), then one NW-SE (almost casual compared to the previous two), then one that landed in yonder Hornbeam, before being joined by a second bird, then both went East....a few images...marginally better than some of my silhouette BOPS...just!

Needless to say I'll be up at first light again tomorrow, FWIW all my sightings were between 6.52 and 9.55 am.

PS....another circa 20 sightings in total today in Greater London!

Gladiator96 · Oct 31, 2017

In Malta we've had possibly the highest ever numbers of hawfinch as well as a huge chaffinch migration. Also above average numbers of siskins and bramblings, the latter being usually very scarce. Must be a severe shortage of food in their breeding grounds.

As a conservation-related sidenote, due to the finch trapping derogation to the Birds Directive, thousands of these finches have been caught. There is supposed to be a 10-bird quota per trapper, but obviously this is widely ignored

NAB · Oct 31, 2017

In my experience and obviously fruit levels dependent, far and away the best place to look for Hawfinch is on Yew Trees, as they seem to have a real preference for the fruit.

Best get checking your local old church yards.

KenM · Oct 31, 2017

Circa 28 Hawfinch sightings reported in Greater London today (so far), surely this must be a peak count already for the area from 6 sites (during this current influx), North, South, East and West of the centre...It would be a challenging/impossible task? to guess-timate the numbers involved just for the G.Lndn. area let alone the (country as a whole...are we talking 3 digits or more?) :eek!:

Captain_of_Crunch · Oct 31, 2017

On over 3% of complete lists in BirdTrack in the last week in Britain and Ireland. Way above any previous years.

https://app.bto.org/birdtrack2/explore/outputs.jsp

aeshna5 · Oct 31, 2017

The BTO are suggesting thousands of Hawfinches are involved so we are talking at least 4 figures not three!

Nutcracker · Oct 31, 2017

Strontium Dog said:
If it's due to a shortage of their usual food sources, I suppose it's too much to hope that these notoriously fussy eaters may get the hint and realise that they are finches with massive bills that could eat pretty much anything if they were so inclined.

Nutcracker said:
If I remember rightly, they're listed as eating seeds of around 90 different species of trees and shrubs :t:

Strontium Dog said:
That makes their particular nature even harder to understand.

Nutcracker said:
It means that places with reduced woody plant diversity (Britain, and even more, Ireland) have fewer Hawfinches than places with higher woody plant diversity.

In Europe, woody plant diversity is highest in the Balkans, and Hawfinches are ridiculously common there, compared to what we are used to :t:

Xenospiza said:
maple seeds... a Hawfinch staple ..... I checked the local maples today: no fruit at all. I would leave too if I were a Hawfinch!

NAB said:
In my experience ... far and away the best place to look for Hawfinch is on Yew Trees, as they seem to have a real preference for the fruit.

Been thinking about this a bit more:

Maple seeds contain saponins (toxic)
Yew seeds contain taxine (toxic)
Hornbeam and Beech seeds contain tannins (toxic)

So do many other tree seeds contain various toxins.

But if a Hawfinch eats a small amount of each of lots of different seeds, then it has a far better chance of avoiding a damaging dose of any one toxin. Some of the toxins may even have neutralising effects on other toxins (e.g. saponins and tannins are good at binding to other organic compounds, which is why they're toxic in the first place).

That could explain well why Hawfinches do best where tree species diversity is greatest, and also why they are such "notoriously fussy eaters".

An interesting research project for a PhD student, perhaps?

Jos Stratford · Oct 31, 2017

Nutcracker said:
In Europe, woody plant diversity is highest in the Balkans, and Hawfinches are ridiculously common there, compared to what we are used to

That could explain well why Hawfinches do best where tree species diversity is greatest, and also why they are such "notoriously fussy eaters".

Perhaps, but I think Lithuania is characterized by a relatively low tree diversity, yet still Hawfinches are very common.

This map indicates tree diversity as low in Lithuania.

dantheman · Oct 31, 2017

Record year here in Cornwall - previously c180 birds ever, 90+ this year so far (although many are of flyovers/vismig).

Down in France when I've been there, there have always been 1 or 2 in winter feeding on cherry stones down the drive (assumed it was the same few birds overwintering, as opposed to a changeover every friday ... )

KenM · Oct 31, 2017

dantheman said:
Record year here in Cornwall - previously c180 birds ever, 90+ this year so far (although many are of flyovers/vismig).

Down in France when I've been there, there have always been 1 or 2 in winter feeding on cherry stones down the drive (assumed it was the same few birds overwintering, as opposed to a changeover every friday ... )

Are they ''U'' Turning at Lands End or going on to colonise the New World?

What is the predominant compass point (if any) in Cornwall on their departure?

UK Hawfinch occurence last weekend....? (1 Viewer)

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