Epipogium aphyllum, The Ghost of the Woods - in UK & Europe (1 Viewer)

Ghostly Vision said:

CE - "Bavarian Beer", as anyone who speaks German knows, is a type of sugary pancake eaten with their Bratwurst. Can't believe you didn't know that.

GV

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Doh! Silly me. My High German is pretty good, but my Bavarian confectionary vocabulary is clearly sadly wanting. An easy mistake to make, you understand.

CE

As an update for interested parties:

Because of the recent heavy rain across the country, and given the time of year, there will be a few people searching known sites in the Chilterns this weekend - myself included.

It might take a few people and a few weekends, but there is a small possibility that enough effort may be put in to cause the botanical upset of the century so far.....

Wish me spiritual guidance.......

Best of luck mate - i'm envious - we've all got to tilt at windmills once in a while and you've certainly picked a Holy Grail - be careful of ' trespass ' tho' - If you are not able to post next week due to a hangove we will know why !...Loz

Best of British, GV.

CE

Ghostly Vision said:

As an update for interested parties:

Because of the recent heavy rain across the country, and given the time of year, there will be a few people searching known sites in the Chilterns this weekend - myself included.

It might take a few people and a few weekends, but there is a small possibility that enough effort may be put in to cause the botanical upset of the century so far.....

Wish me spiritual guidance.......

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Yes, very best of luck GV. Not sure spiritual guidance is what's needed, but I can try if you want!

atb
James

More pics from 23rd July.....

Good luck GV, a fascinating and worthwhile quest but I can't help feeling that if you were succesful you might have to think twice about telling us !

Must try some of those sugary pancakes next time I'm in Germany.

Cheers,

Stuart

I attach a couple of nice pictures for all of your delectations........

Sadly, in the case of any life form that is either very rare or near extinction, there are always some B*****ds who will collect it for their own pleasure. It's not just the amateur enthusiast that is to blame, so called professional naturalists do it as well. E.G. A friend of mine owns a good number of acres of land in the Derwent Valley which forms the boundary between Northumberland and durham. This land is posted as Private and there is no public right of way over it or Bridle paths.

As it happens a very rare Helliborine existed on this land and it was the only known plant of this species known in Northumberland. He was asked to lead a very small party of botanists from a Local Natural History Society on a walk over his land. He did show them this particular plant, he emphasised it's scarcity and asked these people not to reveal its location. (It was in a difficult position to find). Two days later he went to examine this plant and found that it had been 'dug up' and removed. Only one of the people who had been shown its location could have found it.

This only goes to show, that where a rare species of any life form is found, it pays to keep it secret. Show people photographs by all means, but never ever reveal the location.

Plants are not 'my bag', I am an entomologist, after ten years of research I have, in my home county of Northumberland located 165 sites where the Large Heath Butterfly can be found breeding. This total is four times larger than all the known sites of this species in the rest of England and Wales.

I, when asked where this species can be found, will only give the names of sites that are already in the public domain. I have been accused of elitism because of my attitude, but, if I took the time and the trouble to get off my backside to go out and find these sites, others can do the same if they want to see this insect.

I'm afraid I have no time for 'twitchers' of any variety, I have learned from bitter experience, that not all 'so called' naturalists are to be trusted. If you have a rarity in your area, keep it to yourself, that way it may survive. Tell someone, and it's likely that whatever you have found, will soon be gone.

Sadly the old joke of the big Game hunter, on being told that the White Rhino was becoming very rare, ordered his butler to book a safari immediately, exclaiming, "I have to bag one before they become extinct". Unfortunately this attitude does not only apply to Big Game Hunters.

Harry

I have a foot in either camp Harry - i will give details of findings but with discretion and generally to somebody i have got to know and trust - the internet adds another dimension to the ' problem ' it is possible to gain contacts from so many sources but you are unlikely to meet these people so what do you do ?

I do'nt have much of a problem with twitching birds as they are generally transient species - there was no reported problems at the breeding Bee Eaters for example - i have'nt found anything rare birdwise locally but do contribute notable records frequently - without this reciprocation my natural history year would be a lot duller in Central England !...Loz.

rollingthunder said:

I have a foot in either camp Harry - i will give details of findings but with discretion and generally to somebody i have got to know and trust - the internet adds another dimension to the ' problem ' it is possible to gain contacts from so many sources but you are unlikely to meet these people so what do you do ?

I do'nt have much of a problem with twitching birds as they are generally transient species - there was no reported problems at the breeding Bee Eaters for example - i have'nt found anything rare birdwise locally but do contribute notable records frequently - without this reciprocation my natural history year would be a lot duller in Central England !...Loz.

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Hello RT,
If you are referring to the pair of Bee Eaters that bred in a certain Quarry in Co.Durham a couple of years ago, there were problems. As it happens a friend of mine was the first to see these birds and within a few hours the info was posted on the Web. The following day 'twitchers' started arriving in their hundreds and wandered all over the site which is a Wildlife Trust property. It took the WT a couple of days to get proper parking organised and set up an observation area to which the visitors were confined. Unfortunately until this was done, a considerable amount of damage was done to the flora of this nature reserve.

As it happens this quarry holds a good population of Northern Brown Argus butterflies and is one of the best sites in the county to see this species. Large areas of their foodplant was trampled underfoot by these 'birders' who in the main, displayed no consideration at all for other life forms present in their eagerness to see these birds and get a tick in their bird book. Publicity on local and national TV and in the press didn't help the situation.

I understand that there was at least one attempt made to rob the nest of eggs, but it was foiled because the nest was under guard by WT volunteers. Such an act was to be expected, as just about every bird egg collector in the country must have seen the publicity given to these nesting birds.

When it was all over, several thousand birders had a tick in their book, the WT had a bit of profit from car parking charges. The Bee Eaters? Well they did hatch four eggs, but only one chick survived to be fully fledged. I cannot help but think, that if there had been no publicity, and the birds had been left alone, they may have raised more of their brood to maturity. There was certainly no shortage of food as at least two beehives each containing several thousands of bees were introduced into the quarry to suppliment the already large bumblebee population present.

Harry

RT is referring to the bee-eaters which nested in Herefordshire this year. In this case proper viewing arrangements were made before the news was released and it seems there were therefore no problems, so perhaps the lessons of the Durham birds were learned??

How did this thread turn into a discussion on egg thieves?

GV

James Lowther said:

RT is referring to the bee-eaters which nested in Herefordshire this year. In this case proper viewing arrangements were made before the news was released and it seems there were therefore no problems, so perhaps the lessons of the Durham birds were learned??

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Cheers James,
I hadn't heard about that pair of Bee Eaters. In the end I suppose it depends of who see's them first and what action he/she takes. If it is on a WT site NR or NNR, the site managers should be informed first, and not have it announced to the world on the web before site managers can take the necessary steps to preserve the site and accomodate the tourists.

Harry

Sorry Harry i should have been more specific - trust me to pick the only other county to have had Bee Eaters as a breeding species recently !...Loz.

rollingthunder said:

Sorry Harry i should have been more specific - trust me to pick the only other county to have had Bee Eaters as a breeding species recently !...Loz.

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Hello RT,

No problems, I suffer from 'Foot in Mouth' syndrome several times a day.

Harry

Ghost Orchid found again?

Ghostly Vision said:

How did this thread turn into a discussion on egg thieves?

GV

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Hi Sean, looking at your snaps on Surfbirds, does this mean you have refound Ghost Orchid in Britain again?! or are there taken in Germany??
I look forward to your reply,
Dave Gray (Orchid Twitcher of Leicestershire!!).

Hello Dave,

Those pictures also appeared in this thread (see page 2). They have caused such a stir that I have had to take them off Surfbirds. They were taken in Germany at the same time as the other photos (also above)

Now I have finally found out just how many people really want to see the Epipogium in Britain. Hopefully everyone is s keen as me to find it for themselves rather than twitch it following information form those who have spent many painful hours in vain looking at empty, dark Beechwood floors. Not a criticism Dave - more of an invitation to join the happy but dejected band in putting in some time at the sites to see if we can pull off the big one.

If you want to E-mail me privately we can maybe discuss a bit further?

Happy hunting

Sean