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Swarovski Vs Leica

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Old Friday 21st March 2003, 07:27   #1
sebii
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Swarovski Vs Leica

Leica Apo-Televid 77 Vs Swarovski AT80HD

Which is the better scope? This is my crossover from 35mm to digital and I'm leaning towards the Leica from the results I've seen on the net but I'm just not sure! I plan to use it with the CP 4500 (if this is the camera I decide on)...

Thanks!
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Old Friday 21st March 2003, 08:11   #2
Rob in Japan
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I'm in the same situation except I've already purchased a 4500 and am still working on the particulars as far as the menu's go, a whole bunch of nested menus in there.
I'm leaning towards the Swarovski myself. The sheer quantity of people using the Swarovski and the results they get have pretty much convinced me. Lawrence Poh's comparison pics also made a strong impression.
Should be able to scrape up the remaining cash required shortly.

Good Luck and Enjoy!


Oops, I just realized this probably belongs in the 'Spotting Scopes and Eyepeices' section.

Sorry!
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Old Friday 21st March 2003, 08:28   #3
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I use Leica for birding (firstly) and also digiscoping with the 4500. If you are going to spend a lot of money (over1000 here) you should try both. In the UK a lot of the suppliers do field days where you can try scopes and bins "in action". If you can do the same it really is worth it. Then go with the one that feels right to you. Personally I preferred the Leica having tried both and 1 or 2 others, but it is purely personal. Go with your own feel - don't take someone elses word for it.

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Old Friday 21st March 2003, 09:36   #4
Andy Bright
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Not much in it between the two, probably the best indication is that a number of people have sold their APO77's to get a Swarovski for digiscoping.
The individual regarded as the 'godfather' of digiscoping (Laurence Poh) moved from APO77 to AT80HD because he felt the images produced were sharper and more detailed. This is a feeling shared amongst those who have been digiscoping for a few years.
You won't go wrong with either, though remember the AT80HD isn't as heavy as the APO77 (the new ATS80HD is far lighter and more compact than the competition)
Using the scope in a conventional manner (not taking photos through it), there's likely to be even less difference between them. Though I think the Swarovski gives a brighter image.
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Old Friday 21st March 2003, 16:42   #5
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Hello

Just to put a spanner in the works,
theres a new mark 2 20-60x zoom eyepiece for the leica.
which gives constant eye relief and someone was saying edge to edge sharpness (sounds impressive to me!)
Whether its as sharp as the swaro i dont know.
Its what Ive been using with the cp4500 and its brilliant.
I couldnt justify the extra 400 pound I would have had to spend to get the swaro and Im very happy with the leica apo77
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Old Friday 21st March 2003, 16:46   #6
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Hi,
and if you are struggling for cash for the Leica/Swaro then the Kowa 820M series is not far behind them and is a little cheaper.

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Old Friday 21st March 2003, 18:22   #7
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Hi all,

A bit off topic but, how does the Diascope Zeiss fit in this purpose?
The local dealer here (Belgium) speaks about a very competetive price for the 85 mm?
Are there people out here who has experience with the Zeiss?
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Old Friday 21st March 2003, 19:49   #8
Andy Bright
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Yes, I've been testing the Zeiss 85fl for the last month, I'll post my findings in the near future..... but certainly a top scope, nice and lightweight as well.
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Old Friday 21st March 2003, 20:08   #9
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Just to put another spanner in the works there is a cheaper alternative to the above scopes.The scope in question is the opticron ES80 it has HD glass & is the one i,ve been using for several months now & i,m extremely impressed with the results.No chromatic abberation etc bright sharp images.
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Old Sunday 23rd March 2003, 07:08   #10
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Is anyone using the new Swarovski ATS80HD for digiscoping yet? I would love to see how it compares to the older AT80HD.
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Old Sunday 23rd March 2003, 16:00   #11
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I was wondering about the new mark 2 20-60 zoom eyepiece for the leica that peteee mentioned. We are just about ready to purchase a leica apo 77 so I have a recent catalog from them. It does not refer to any of their eyepieces as "mark 2". Who makes this eyepiece?
Yes, I agree with Peteee- I too am having a hard time with the price difference since our evoluation of the two a couple of years ago was equally favorable. Actually, I should'nt talk too loud about prices since we are also concidering the Questar. Went the other day to their factory (it's not too far from my home). Can't bet the image, but concerned about how rugged it is for field use. Thanks.

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Old Sunday 23rd March 2003, 19:14   #12
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leica makes the eyepiece, if you buy a new 20-60x zoom eyepiece now it should be the mark 2.
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Old Monday 24th March 2003, 09:51   #13
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What is a mark 2 Leica eyepiece.

Is it just, that the new eyepiece fits both the 62mm & 77mm objective.

Is the performance different against the old eyepiece, f.o.v. etc

I certainly would like to know.
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Old Monday 24th March 2003, 11:39   #14
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Question I hate decisions like this ;~)

I'm hoping that some one has had some experience with them and is able to come up with some info or observations to Andy Holt's post.

Are the improvements noticeable or is the new ATS-80 HD about the same as the AT-80 HD is. I've been able to find some AT-80 HD's for around $1,000 US. Not a bad price at all!

Decisions, decisions...
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Old Monday 24th March 2003, 11:57   #15
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I have looked at some prices (UK RRP) for Leica, Swarovski & Zeiss, all fitted with a 20 - 60 eyepiece:

Leica APO 77mm + Eye Piece = 1209
Swarovski HD 80mm (new) + Eye Piece = 1516
Zeiss 85mm Fl + Eye Piece = 1290

I could not find the prices for Kowa and Opticron.
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Old Monday 24th March 2003, 12:40   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by mak
I have looked at some prices (UK RRP) for Leica, Swarovski & Zeiss, all fitted with a 20 - 60 eyepiece:

Leica APO 77mm + Eye Piece = 1209
Swarovski HD 80mm (new) + Eye Piece = 1516
Zeiss 85mm Fl + Eye Piece = 1290

I could not find the prices for Kowa and Opticron.
In Focus
http://www.at-infocus.co.uk/reviews_scopes.html
KOWA TSN 823M (ANGLED) WITH 20-60x ZOOM EYEPIECE at 839.00
OPTICRON ES80A WITH 20-60x HDF ZOOM EYEPIECE at 526.00

Sherwoods
http://www.sherwoods-photo.com/optic...cron_scope.htm
OPTICRON ES80A WITH 20-60x HDF ZOOM EYEPIECE at 500.00
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Old Monday 24th March 2003, 20:22   #17
Darrell Clegg
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South-West Optics



www.swoptics.co.uk

Leica APO 77 Televid 20x60 zoom 949

Swarovski ATS80HD 20x60 zoom 1,499 (I don't believe for a second that it is 400 better than the Leica - but that's just my opinion)

Opticron ES80 20x60 zoom + stay on case 499

Kowa TSN 823 x32 + stay on case 929



As a bonus you get free postage, packing, insurance and next day delivery. The owner is also a birder, which is always a plus!
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Old Monday 24th March 2003, 20:25   #18
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Southwest optics is where I got my leica from,
Hes a top bloke.
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Old Monday 24th March 2003, 20:51   #19
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The best price that I have seen for the Kowa 823M with 32x is 799. That is not far off half the price of the Swaro. My eyes do not get on with the Swaro scopes so I wouldn't buy one anyway but they are certainly not twice as good as the Kowa. Leica lenses are excellent but the engineering on the moving parts and the after sales service are a little bit to be desired in my opinion and that is all that it is, so I am a Kowa fan.


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Old Friday 4th April 2003, 08:42   #20
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I'm now waiting for my new Zeiss 85FL to arrive. I do get 20-60x eyepiece. My plans are to get me a CoolPix 4500 for digiscoping, therefore I eagerly wait for Andys opinion on that combination. I have found no discussion so far on digiscoping with the Zeiss!
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Old Friday 4th April 2003, 10:18   #21
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Gaukur,
I said it to Binni and I'll say it to you,
selling your Leica in order to buy Zeiss sounds to me like selling a Mercedes-Benz and buying a Toyota!
However, I look forward to looking through your Zeiss if I come up to Hsavk this year!!
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Old Friday 4th April 2003, 10:38   #22
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Hi Edward;
I do think I will do much better with the Zeiss than the non-APO Leica, especially in Digiscoping. APO-Leica is horribly expensive here in Iceland so hardly an option! I also prefer a Toyota rather than Mercedes! You should seriously consider Zeiss for your self!
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Old Friday 4th April 2003, 12:36   #23
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Initial finding from my experience with the 85fl is that it is brighter than the Leica apo77 and the zoom e.p. is better in terms of field of view.... at higher zoom mags it resolves slightly more detail. In fact the zoom e.p. is as good as I've seen .... o.k. so there's fractional edge distortion on the zoom @ 20x because they have gone for wider f.o.v. but that's not a real problem, certainly in digiscoping.
Major benefit of the 85fl is it's compact size and lack of weight vs the heavy Leica.
I haven't digiscoped with the APO77 so it would be unfair for me to compare between the two scopes.
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