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Common Redstart age?

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Old Thursday 12th September 2019, 02:50   #26
johnallcock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Interesting that Brian appears to have declined an opinion and that yourself and Grahame have, clearly there is a possible conflict of confidence not just on specifically ageing post Juv. moulting females but even separating the genders of this species between 1st and 2nd calendar years?
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Originally Posted by Jean FRANCOIS View Post
I have the impression that there are two different birds.
In the first photo, the color of the throat and the speckled appearance of the chest indicate to me a young female.
For the next ones, I think of an adult female (new plumage, uniform GC)
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Originally Posted by Jane Turner View Post
Pretty sure I can see a moult contrast in the greater coverts which would make it a 1st year bird.

And because its possible to see a contrast, its likely that its a 1st cal year male. Hint of a 5 o clock shadow on the throat of that last photo which would support that.
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Originally Posted by Grahame Walbridge View Post
Jane you begin the process with sexing and I see no feature that supports it being a male http://ringersdigiguide.ottenby.se/s...icurus/sexing/

So female it is IMHO of uncertain age.

Grahame

Ken, people have already expressed an opinion regarding gender. Grahame and Jean Francois have clearly stated that they consider the bird to be female. Jane has stated that she can see a moult contrast and therefore considers it to be male.

Personally I see this bird to be fairly uniformly brown like a female, with perhaps a greyer tone to the upperparts than the average. As I have tried to state in two previous posts, I would expect a 1CY male to show more features suggestive of an adult - for example a darker throat and more rufous on the underparts, and I would expect a 2CY male to be indistinguishable from an adult. This seems to be supported in the links provided by Brian, although the links provided by Jane perhaps suggest a few 1CY males are less obvious.

To make sure there is no ambiguity, I will state clearly that I think this is a female that cannot be definitely aged.
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Old Thursday 12th September 2019, 08:58   #27
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Jane has stated that she can see a moult contrast and therefore considers it to be male.
More accurately I can see a moult contrast so it has to be 1st year bird - then thinking out loud about whether its possible that this is an unusual male where the disctinctive male plumage is more perfectly obscured by [to be worn off as breedin plumage emerges] tips than usual, or if its a female with unusually grey and contrasting adult greater coverts.
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Old Thursday 12th September 2019, 09:02   #28
KenM
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Originally Posted by johnallcock View Post
Ken, people have already expressed an opinion regarding gender. Grahame and Jean Francois have clearly stated that they consider the bird to be female. Jane has stated that she can see a moult contrast and therefore considers it to be male.

Personally I see this bird to be fairly uniformly brown like a female, with perhaps a greyer tone to the upperparts than the average. As I have tried to state in two previous posts, I would expect a 1CY male to show more features suggestive of an adult - for example a darker throat and more rufous on the underparts, and I would expect a 2CY male to be indistinguishable from an adult. This seems to be supported in the links provided by Brian, although the links provided by Jane perhaps suggest a few 1CY males are less obvious.

To make sure there is no ambiguity, I will state clearly that I think this is a female that cannot be definitely aged.
I thank you for your comments John, Redstarts are a particular favourite of mine how would you, or anybody else...gender/age ascribe this bird?, (taken April 18th 2014 on Cyprus)

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Old Thursday 12th September 2019, 10:18   #29
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Haven't you posted the right hand image before Ken, resulted in some strange thoughts if I recall..?...White - throated Robin lookalikey.
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Old Thursday 12th September 2019, 10:31   #30
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Haven't you posted the right hand image before Ken, resulted in some strange thoughts if I recall..?...White - throated Robin lookalikey.
Yes I have, but it’s red tail puts paid to that consideration, clearly a Redstart and very relevant to the topic regarding sex and age.

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Old Thursday 12th September 2019, 11:05   #31
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Haven't you posted the right hand image before Ken, resulted in some strange thoughts if I recall..?...White - throated Robin lookalikey.
Threads back in 2016 and 2018 ...

Not sure if it was commented on but there is something major going on with the contrast/saturation?
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Old Thursday 12th September 2019, 11:14   #32
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Threads back in 2016 and 2018 ...

Not sure if it was commented on but there is something major going on with the contrast/saturation?
I ramped the contrast up to show the red tail! just to confirm that it was a Redstart and not a WTRobin.
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Old Thursday 12th September 2019, 12:06   #33
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A Male for sure and given the date, most likely a second calendar bird.
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Old Thursday 12th September 2019, 14:20   #34
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A Male for sure and given the date, most likely a second calendar bird.
That’s my point PYRTLE, surely a 2nd calendar year male “ should” be sporting a black throat....even by the Spring?

How much do we know about “anomalous” immature plumage regardless of the gender, perhaps sometimes we can’t always ascribe individuals to one sex or another?

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Old Friday 13th September 2019, 02:18   #35
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As others also think the OP bird is a female - no red at the underside.

Still, for me the outcome of this thread is that sexing of some birds in autumn seems to be not as straightforward as I thought it should be.

Even in spring some birds - like the oversaturated one - seem to show 'transgender' features. As this bird from June:
http://netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=sh...cture_id=68326

The photographer considers it to be a female showing male features. This phenomenon is known as 'Hahnenfedrigkeit' in German. It is not too rare that older females of some taxa show male features. But in this case I'm not sure if this is really can be a female. So, to me it seems likely that there are those 2cy type males.
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