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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Recommendations for a step up from DCF-WP (1 Viewer)

Bob A (SD)

Bob A (SD)

Well-known member
I have 8x32 DCF-WPs that have served me well. The only thing about them I dislike are the cheesy pull up eyecups. Since the WP series has been eclipsed by first the SP and now the ED series, I've been considering replacing them with a more current pair. That said I've read where several authorities (e.g. Barsness, etc.) have indicated that there wasn't a great gain in optics quality going from the WP to SP series. Rather the gains were in the hardness quality of the coatings. Personally I've no clue as I haven't had the opportunity to audition the SP line let alone the ED.

There are other brands out there too which appear worthy. The Minox HG 8x33s seem to garner impressive reviews. At any rate I'd appreciate hearing recommendations. If you've had past experience with the DCF-WP line, so much the better :)

Thanks

--Bob
 
No one?

36 views and no responses?

The gist of what I'm asking is whether or not an "alpha bin" is the only alternative here or whether a lessor priced 8x30/32/33 premium non-alpha bin might also provide a significant improvement over the DCF-WP.

--Bob
 
I dont have the WPs, but I do own the Pentax SPs and I think they are really good glass, especially for the money (see my direct comparison to Trinovids in the Pentax subforum). I also have a Minox BD BR 8x32s, and while I need to do a formal comparison with the SPs, I am very pleased with them as well. If the Minox HGs are better, then they may very well be in the same league as the Alpha glass.

Vortex Razors are also mentioned as being lower-priced competitors to the alpha glass.

Vandit
 
Vandit,

Thanks for your response :) The closest I've seen to a comparison of the Minox HGs with alpha bins (all 8x32/33 size) are comments from a moderator on 24hourcampfire. Supposedly there will be a formal review article published soon. The oddity in his comments thusfar is an expressed disappointment with the Nikon LXL.

As for the Razors, agreed that they're garnering positive comments. Unfortunately they aren't available in a "short" version e.g. 8x32. There is a Fury model due out soon but it won't have the low dispersion XD glass featured on the Razors.

I do own a set of Vortex 10x42 Diamondbacks (aka Sidewinder) and have found them to perform way above their price point. The Minox BD 6.5x32 IF and Leupold Yosemite 8x30 porros both are extreme performance values as well. But I don't consider either a replacement for my DCF-WP 8x32s. The Minox gives me the low power stability of a 7x class bin; and the 8x30 Yosemite porros inexpensive backpacking bins that I won't loose sleep over should they get damaged. That said I will admit they rival the Pentax overall with a plus of their enhanced 3D presentation. The stiction the focuser exhibits really is the only functional drawback.

Still wondering about upgrading my DCF-WPs....

--Bob
rear_tag_avitar.JPG

Orion 9x63 Mini-Giants; Pentax 8x32DCF-WP/9x21UCF; Minox BD6.5x32IF; Vortex Sidewinder 10x42; Leupold 8x30 Yosemite NWTF
 
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I still appreciate the lone response I received here from Vandit. But ultimately I ended up going for a bit of diversity instead of upgrading my Pentax DCF-WP 8x32s by picking up an obscure Japanese circa late 60s early 70s well built and well corrected 7x35 porro with an 11* 578' FOV plus a classic Leupold Gold Ring 9x35 IF porro (there is a thread on this one in the Leupold forum).

So, save for a Pentax 9x21 UCF-Mini reverse porro not shown, here's the line up:
binocs.jpg


--Bob
 
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For Vortex, jus stick to the top line, forget the Fury etc. If I were totally committed to 8x30, Swarowski 8x30 would be on the short list. There are not really that many 8x32s and 8x30s to try. Why not stick to that, if you like the format. 8x42s are OK, but get heavy at top model end.
 
The Razor and maybe the 42mm Furys are worth a look, but I think most of their catalog is pretty average. The 28mm and 32mm Furys I was not impressed with. He did specify an upgrade from the Pentax, so we are looking for one of better quality than the mid price roofs.
 
I think Tero may be saying that because of his fairly poor experience with the Vortex Spitfire ( a low priced model) but I would just be guessing.

Though the original question already seems to be dealt with I would like to throw my two cents in. In the 8x30-something roof format you basically have two categories in my mind. You have the $200-$500 roofs like the Bushnell Legend, Nikon Monarch, Minox BD and BL, Pentax SP, XP, Zeiss Conquest, etc... or you have the ubar-glasses from Zeiss, Swaro and Leica. There really aren't many, if any, $600-$900 8x30s unless you consider the Nikon LXL, Pentax ED or possibly the Kahles model. Some of the popular full sized bins in this price range, like the Vortex Razor and Meopta Meostar are rumored to be producing 30-32 mm models in the not too distant future but they truly are just rumors at this point. Those WPs you own do perform quite above their price level. To really upgrade from them you probably would have to opt for one of the high end models from one of the big three. The Pentax ED and Minox HG might offer slight improvement in some areas but only you can determine if that improvement is worth the cost.

I think you made some interesting selections for your collection and think diversification is often a viable alternative to just simple replacement.
 
FrankD Though the original question already seems to be dealt with I would like to throw my two cents in. In the 8x30-something roof format you basically have two categories in my mind. You have the $200-$500 roofs like the Bushnell Legend said:
Frank,

As always I very much appreciate your inputs. I picked up the 8x30 Sams based on your evaluation comments and they indeed are just the ticket for backpacking and use at National Parks.

What you've stated here is essentially what I concluded. That to upgrade from my DCF-WPs I'd be looking at alpha grade bins. And that rumors existed about some others but they remain unsubstantiated. In the interim mine deliver solid performance.

I've found myself really enjoying wide angles so that old bomb proof built 7x35SWA is plain fun. Sure it has 4 decade old coatings and weighs around 36 ounces, so it is neither an easy carry or the latest in performance. Still it provides a view I can swim in which nothing being made today can do.

As for the Leupolds, they're 15 to 20 year old porro designs but offer an interesting 9x35 IF configuration with a nice >65* AFOV, great build quality and customer support which again, while not providing state of the art performance, provides satisfaction that new products may not.

Frank, I've tried to keep up with what you're using but remain unclear. I think you have settled on a 7x42 FL. You had a 8x42 Meostar for some time but am not sure if you still do. That you found the Vipers brighter than the Razors but ultimately flipped both. Am I close?

--Bob
Click to expand...
 
Glad I could help out with previous choices Bob. :)

To answer your last question. I have four "primary" bins I am using regularly now.

Zeiss FL 7x42 - Hawkwatching (Can't wait for August 15th)

Zeiss FL 8x32 - General all around use

Meopta Meostar 8x42 - General all around use but also as a backup hawkwatching/hunting bin

Nikon Monarch 8x36 - Hunting binocular (but a suprisingly good specimen which, dare I say it?, compares very favorably to the Zeiss FL) ;)

I still have the Nikon 7x35 Es but they have been relegated to feeder bins as I have yet to have the right ocular lens cleaned internally. I got some water inside there when cleaning them once. I also have the Nikon Sportstar IV's but they seem to have gone out of alignment.

I did sell both my Vortex models but that was due to financial reasons at the time. That has since been resolved and I eagerly await the Vortex Fury for comparison to my other 8x30-somethings..which leads me to...

Tero,

No, I have not but I hope to have one shortly. It seems we posted within a minute or two of us before so I did not see your previous response. Did you get a chance to check out the 8 and 6.5 x 32 mm Furys?
 
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Thanks for the clarification Frank. I look forward to the evaluation of the 8x32 Fury.

And I do recall reading your comparisions of the big 3 and if memory serves you'd indicated the Zeiss were lighter, had a wider FOV, but had more astigmatism on the edges but less CA than the Swaro or Leica. Ultimately any of the 3 would be a great choice. Ergonomics and personal preferences become key to any choice.

I'm missing something about your August 15 hawk reference. That may simply be due to the fact that I turn 60 on that date <grin>.

--Bob
 
No, no Furys. From all I heard they are pretty average for the money and what they offer. But as I am always curious about 10x, would like to see 10x32, I am most anxious to see them at least. They have an OK fov.

Now I am pretty much equally divided between 10x42(or40) and 8x32 use. The cheaper 10x42s are much lighter, so they get used. The 8x32s , EO , are all I use in summer.
 
Bob,

Your synopsis of my comments is spot on and I think most folks would say much the same thing. It all really comes down to personal preferences at this price point. Some folks might not like the astigmatism of the FLs while others may find CA in some units of the Ultravids, etc..., etc...

My reference to the 15th of this month, however coincidental, was simply to relate the first date of the annual hawk count at one of the local hawkwatching spots. John Traynor and I frequent it often and I hope to see him there this season again.

....and an early "Happy Birthday" to you sir. ;)

Tero,

Thanks for clarifying that. I had spoken to one of the folks at Vortex a month or so back about the Furys debut. I was guessing some time before the end of last month but there must be something delaying their arrival. Though I am not expecting "Razor-level" quality I do have some high expectations for them at that price point. I guess we will just have to wait and see.
 
I would concentrate on the 42mm Furys. From all the, few, Vortexes I have had in hand, the build was good even in the cheap ones. It is the optics we have less info on. I would be willing to get the 8x42s from EO to try out if I was in need of that size.
 
I may opt for the 6.5x32 mm Furys as it is an unusual configuration plus another 8x32 in my lineup would be somewhat redundant. A full size 42 mm model wouldn't be a bad idea but the two I have now seem to suit just about any situation I could come up with.

Eventually, down the road aways I may opt for a mid-high end 10x50. I would love one in the SLC model but that is seriously out of my price range right now. ;)
 
FrankD said:
I may opt for the 6.5x32 mm Furys as it is an unusual configuration plus another 8x32 in my lineup would be somewhat redundant. A full size 42 mm model wouldn't be a bad idea but the two I have now seem to suit just about any situation I could come up with.
Click to expand...


Frank,

FWIW I have found the 6.5x32 configuration very satisfying. Granted mine are Minox IFs whose focusing system really isn't suitable for birding. But just as you've found the 7x42 configuration to be an "all arounder," not much is lost at all with a 6.5x. This from comparing the magnification to my 7x35s. My 6.5s have an 8* 420' FOV which obviates any sense of looking down a straw as well. They have become a great grab n go pair especially with their "pre-focused" IF feature.

I got mine from Doug (sponsor of the optics forum at the campfire) on sale. He still is selling them for $200 delivered which is the cheapest by a significant margin of anyplace I know of.

The Furys with their CF are certainly attractive although untested. But they weren't available when I went for the Minox and there remains a significant price difference.


Addendum: I've come back with a few more thoughts. Many have opined that a great combo is a 7x42 plus a 8x32. Obviously there are permutations that could be discussed including where that 6.5x Fury might fit, such as a 6.5x32 plus 8x42 combo. In my case I still feel my 8x32s could be the right spec were I to go with just a single set of bins. Going to a pair, I would not be adverse to a 6.5x32 and 9x35 combo, both of which are in my inventory. Smaller objective size and associated exit pupils seem appropriate for my age. Thankfully I need not worry about slimming things down at this juncture.

--Bob
 
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Interesting thoughts Bob. Your combination comments definitely strike a chord with me. If I had to settle for just one my current four it would probably be the Meopta simply because the 8x42 configuration (coupled with the specific characteristics of this model) would make it probably the most well rounded of the bunch for my tastes. If I could keep two then it would probably be the 7x42/8x32 combo because it gives me one full sized bin and one mid-sized model (not to mention the specific quality and optical characteristics of my two particular units) ;) .

I have to give some thought about where that 6.5x32 would fit in the big scheme of things. You may be right that it would compliment the 8x42 quite nicely.
 
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