Persuade Me! Which bins? (1 Viewer)

Hey all, this is my first post and I have been saving for a very, very, very long time for my first set of quality binoculars. I have spent countless hours of research, and like most others have come down to the Swaro SLC/EL, Leica Ultravids/Trinovids, and the Zeiss FL's. This thread has been posted in the Zeiss and Leica sections.

After reading the reviews comparing the new SLC's to the EL's I have decided to elminiate the EL's. That leaves me with four choices. From what i've read,differences in image quality of these binoculars will most likely not be very noticeable to the untrained eye (my eyes ). However, it seems that in optical qualtiy, most rank Zeiss FL's at the top, followed by the Leicas and then Swarovski. Also I wear glasses and have astigmatism, if that makes any difference.

Yet, the thing that may sway me to one model or another, is durability. I am brutal on gear (I hike a lot), and I want to be sure which model may stand the most abuse, and in the event that it must be sent back to the factory, which company has the fastest, most efficient service. So far the SLC leads the list of contenders. I know the issue of selecting one of these binoculars has been hotly debated for eons. BUT, by posting this, I'm trying to garner the newest information and experiences possible. So draw your weapons and defend your bino choices! Thank you in advance for your replies (if any :bounce: ).

Hi USCfanatic,

And welcome to BirdForum. I hope you are not disappointed if your posts do not raise a fierce debate. There seems to be a great tolerance to personal preferences on this forum - which of course is a good thing.

Kimmo Absetz's legendary Alula-reviews are a very good starting point http://www.alula.fi/GB/index.htm, if you have not alredy seen them. I also recommend browsing/searching earlier posts on this forum to find some really informative analysis.

Here are my comments for what they are worth:

Swaro SLC (42mm):
+ outstanding warranty, friendly service regardless of location
+ feels very durable, good armoring, scratch resistant lenses
+ nice focusing
+ sharp almost to the edges, very easy on the eyes (to me)
- large & heavy
- not very close focusing
- yellowish color cast, not quite as bright (?)

Leica Ultravids
+ sharp, bright, contrasty, natural colors
+ most compact, "feeling of quality"
+ very nice handling (in my hands)
+ close focus
+ scratch resistant lens coating
- noticeable CA
- focuser may not be smooth
(- QC issues (sometimes dirt/particles on lenses))

Zeiss FL
+ outstanding center sharpness, low CA
+ brightest ?, natural colors, contrasty
+ close focus
+ wide FOV
+ light weight
+ fast & smooth focusing
- long & large
- soft edges
- scratch resistance?

All of them have their fans for good reasons. To me it looks like if durability is important to you, the SLCs may indeed be a good choice. Just take the time to test them yourself.

Best regards,

Ilkka

Welcome USCfanatic,

I think Ilkka did a very nice job of detailing the pros and cons of the three of the top bins out there.

If you really think that you will be sending them back from time to time for repairs, Swarovski is probably the top pick.

If you are just trying to determine which pair best suits your eyes, that will have to be done at the optics store. Each member of the forum has a list of favorites and no two lists will be the same. I don't think you will be disappointed with any of the offerings from Leica, Swarovski or Zeiss, but you have to do some research and let your eyes do the talking for you. It won't take long before you have a list of favorites yourself.

Lastly, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the ELs, as they are both optically excellent and a joy to hold. Many folks on the forum wouldn't trade them for the world.

Good luck in your search.

Rgds,

Steffan

Leica 7x42 Ultravid
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL
Swarovski 10x42 SLC

USCfanatic said:

Yet, the thing that may sway me to one model or another, is durability. I am brutal on gear (I hike a lot),

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I'm going to offer an unpopular point of view for all those who worship $1000+ bins.
Alot of hiking in temperate climes is not hard on bins. I recomend this experiment, as long as you are willing to spend $1,000+.
Buy a high quality pair of Porro prism bins for $200-$300 and use them for as long as they last. Do all your hiking, birding, etc. Bang them around, within reason. I think you will find they are optically nearly as good as the top roofs; that they last several years until you decide you want a new pair of bins anyway. If by some small chance they are stolen, lost, broken, you can replace them and still not have wasted as much as you would on top roofs.

Top roofs are ideal for scientists on expeditions to the tropics who can't easily replace the bins should they break under the stress of a tropical climate and arduous travel in back country. Furthermore, these people usual have grants. For the average birder in Europe or North America, they are unnecessary. Even those of us going for a week to some bird tourist lodge can succeed with our primary bins (porro or whatever) and our older ones as a spare.
Any bin's weakness is the exposed lenses. As they accumulate scratches over the months and years of birding, even with the best coatings, you will want to replace them whether they are SLCs or not.
In short give a good look at the best porro prism bins before you buy the roof marketing-mystique.
Not a popular view with people who will enjoy this thread. But, I thought you should hear another point of view.
Anyway, good luck with your choice. They are all fine binoculars you are considering. I don't dispute that.
cheers,
Marc

I'm unable to distinguish differences in sharpness in the top end, other than possible softness around the edges. I would just pick the brightest, as that CAN make a lot of difference in the field.

The advice about the porros is good. And there are indeed a few models of porros that work well with glasses. I prefer to have one pair of porros and one of roofs, in the car on any trip. My roofs are just Monarchs. Bright enough for me.

This thread is duplicated on today's Leica Sub Forum. See my post there. It might be a good idea to combine them.
Bob

USCfanatic said:

Hey all, this is my first post and I have been saving for a very, very, very long time for my first set of quality binoculars. I have spent countless hours of research, and like most others have come down to the Swaro SLC/EL, Leica Ultravids/Trinovids, and the Zeiss FL's. This thread has been posted in the Zeiss and Leica sections.

After reading the reviews comparing the new SLC's to the EL's I have decided to elminiate the EL's. That leaves me with four choices. From what i've read,differences in image quality of these binoculars will most likely not be very noticeable to the untrained eye (my eyes ). However, it seems that in optical qualtiy, most rank Zeiss FL's at the top, followed by the Leicas and then Swarovski. Also I wear glasses and have astigmatism, if that makes any difference.

Yet, the thing that may sway me to one model or another, is durability. I am brutal on gear (I hike a lot), and I want to be sure which model may stand the most abuse, and in the event that it must be sent back to the factory, which company has the fastest, most efficient service. So far the SLC leads the list of contenders. I know the issue of selecting one of these binoculars has been hotly debated for eons. BUT, by posting this, I'm trying to garner the newest information and experiences possible. So draw your weapons and defend your bino choices! Thank you in advance for your replies (if any :bounce: ).

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Nikon HGLs

Hmm, I am curious why the Nikon HGLs were not one of your choices. They aren't European but I have yet to see anyone exclude them from the elite series of glasses.

iporali, thanks for your easy to understand comparisons. But I don't know what CA stands for? Frank D, I have never heard of the Nikon HGL's but I will take your advice and check them out. Jedku, that is what I have been doing right now, but after looking through my buddy's swaros, I think it is worth upgrading to the higher end. I'm thinkin of this as a long term investment anyway.

USCfanatic said:

iporali, thanks for your easy to understand comparisons. But I don't know what CA stands for? Frank D, I have never heard of the Nikon HGL's but I will take your advice and check them out. Jedku, that is what I have been doing right now, but after looking through my buddy's swaros, I think it is worth upgrading to the higher end. I'm thinkin of this as a long term investment anyway.

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Hi USCfanatic,

The new Leica Ultravids and Zeiss FLs are very nice. They weigh less than the earlier models but I don't know if they are as rugged as slightly older Leica BNs. I've not abused my Leica 8x42BN but it certainly looks and feels as if it could take some rough treatment.

The Leica 8x42 BN is about 32 oz vs. the new Ultravid 8x42 at about 26 oz.

If you plan to wear your eye glasses while looking through your new binocular the Leica 8x42 BN would be fine. The smaller 8x32 is nice but you may have a hard time seeing the full field.

If you want the latest Zeiss binoculars the 42mm FL are very nice. I'm very happy with my 10x42FL. The 8x32FL may be ok with your glasses on and it weighs only 20 oz.

You really need to find some stores where you can try before you buy. It is a lot like buying hiking boots. They have to feel right to you.

Good luck,
Rich

USCfanatic said:

But I don't know what CA stands for?

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CA = chromatic aberration

You may not notice it.

iporali, thanks for your easy to understand comparisons. But I don't know what CA stands for? Frank D, I have never heard of the Nikon HGL's but I will take your advice and check them out. Jedku, that is what I have been doing right now, but after looking through my buddy's swaros, I think it is worth upgrading to the higher end. I'm thinkin of this as a long term investment anyway.

Click to expand...

USCFanatic,

Chromatic Abberation is "color fringing". A slight 'halo' of color around high contrast objects. It is created when not all colors of the visible spectrum are brought together at the same point of focus. Binoculars that use HD, ED glass or Fluorite significantly reduce this type of color distortion. It is probably most noticeable in inexpensive roof prisms.

The Nikon HGL is Nikon's top roof prism offering. The "HG" stands for high grade and the "L" stands for lightweight. In the US they are typically referred to as the Nikon Premier LXL. Basically the same optical quality as the big 3 European manufacturers but at a price that is usually a few hundred less.