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Spotting scope very light?? (2 Viewers)

That said, I looked though several scopes, 60 mm and larger, even some made by renowned manufacturers, that went mushy at 40x. Sample variation. Lemons. That's why I wouldn't buy a scope without carefully checking the optical quality. And that's where Henry's and Kimmo's tips on how to test a scope are really, really useful. Because you can't really judge the quality of a scope without doing some thorough side-by-side comparisons with a scope of known quality or, even better, a star test.
Hermann

Agreed - have seen my share of lemons too - including top models of alpha brands - interestingly enough no Kowa among them yet.

Joachim
 
Hi,

I would not expect anything good - and returning it will be no fun.

Joachim

Many thanks for the warning. The double focusing system has reminded me of Kowa. But my desire to waste 200 Euro is limited. Also, it weighs 1,700g. Too heavy for this thread, obviously.

I have considered to get the best available eyepiece for my Minox 62mm scope. However I tend to think (after looking through Swarovski 80+mm scopes) that such optical quality is just not available with smaller diameters. Maybe an old Swarovski Habicht scope at circa Euro 600 is a better idea.
 
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Maybe an old Swarovski Habicht scope at circa Euro 600 is a better idea.

I use a 30 year old Kowa TSN-3 with a modern Opticron SDLv2 zoom and am quite pleased with the results. Even in direct comparison to top of the line alphas - some are better, but not 2k€ better.

Joachim
 
I use a 30 year old Kowa TSN-3 with a modern Opticron SDLv2 zoom and am quite pleased with the results. Even in direct comparison to top of the line alphas - some are better, but not 2k€ better.

Joachim

Thanks for this suggestion. I had much fun yesterday reading up (and google) on your combination, finding your detailed explanation on the juelich-bonn website, and several posts here on birdforum.
Your digiscoped photo of a black kite in a distance of 150m is far better than my own kestrel in a mere 100m. Very impressive. :t:

It is inspiring to read these threads. I began to reflect about my preferences. So far I haven't done any sea-watching, an activity profiting from a large FOV. My wader watching is mostly from a hide, 150m. Sometimes I replace the tripod with a hide clamp. An Optolyth 30x70 could be a simpler alternative. Since I wear glasses and my vision isn't great, I might not even profit from higher magnifications. Someone offers a TSN-4, I do prefer a straight scope.

So I have a lot to think about. This can take a while. ;)
 
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Since I wear glasses and my vision isn't great, I might not even profit from higher magnifications. Someone offers a TSN-4, I do prefer a straight scope.

Hi,

if you prefer straight scopes, you're lucky, the straight variants are less liked in germany and britain, so used prices are cheaper.

I don't follow your rationale of eyesight and useful magnification - to the contrary, somebody with so-so eyesight will find 50x useful for an ID which your eagle-eyed fellow birder managed with 30x.

My eyesight is ok but not more (without glasses and I'm still too vain to visit an eye doctor) and like 50x a lot. Others do too obviously like it too measured by the queue behind my lowly Kowa at group walks...

Joachim
 
An Optolyth 30x70 could be a simpler alternative.

But you'd give up a lot of image quality compared to, say, one of the fluorite Kowas, a Nikon Fieldscope and so on. Optolyth isn't really up-to-date anymore ...

Since I wear glasses and my vision isn't great, I might not even profit from higher magnifications. Someone offers a TSN-4, I do prefer a straight scope.

Well, if you wear glasses you should really try to find a scope with eyepieces that work with your glasses. And one thing is for sure: With a good enough scope you'll definitely profit from higher magnifications.

Straight scopes sound like a good idea - but only to newbies. Alright, there are some folks who find straight scopes better, but on the whole angled scopes have a lot of advantages: You need a shorter tripod, they're far better for scanning treetops (or high mountains, e.g. in the Alps), they're much easier to share with people who're taller or shorter than you and so on. And I say this as someone who started of using only straight scopes because there weren't all that many angled scopes on the market at the time. (My first angled scope was the venerable Kowa TS-1 - anyone still remember that model?)

If you're worried about finding birds through an angled scope, check this forum for Kimmo's cable tie finder he first wrote about in Alula, an excellent Finnish birding magazine at the time: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=83299. You'll find all there is to know in that thread. There's even a set of nice drawings in post #25. It works very well indeed.

I only prefer a straight scope in ONE situation: When watching from the car. For that situation I bought a straight Nikon body as I do quite a bit of birding from the car during the winter months.

Hermann
 
Hi,

to the o.p. - I agree with Hermann's argument for an angled scope btw - that's why I own a TSN-3. The Opticron SDLv2 has 18mm+ ERand is fine for use with glasses.

I do know the TS-1 but don't own one...

Joachim
 
I don't follow your rationale of eyesight and useful magnification - to the contrary, somebody with so-so eyesight will find 50x useful for an ID which your eagle-eyed fellow birder managed with 30x.

Joachim

I am pretty sure you are right and using a TSN-3/4 (77mm) with the Opticron zoom would be a major optical improvement over the Minox. The latter didn't weight much (1.035g), but I often left it at home, it wasn't much fun to look through. I see the TSN-4 (newer version) weighs 1.285g, plus 270g (EP).

Well, if you wear glasses you should really try to find a scope with eyepieces that work with your glasses. And one thing is for sure: With a good enough scope you'll definitely profit from higher magnifications.

I bought the Minox because of a magazine test stressing its good eye relief - & the low price & modest weight. But these positive sides have little merit, if I don't use it, having more reach with a Nikon J5 and old Sigma lens + 3.0x TC. That's manual focusing, but it got details that I didn't see with the Minox.

Straight scopes sound like a good idea - but only to newbies. Alright, there are some folks who find straight scopes better, but on the whole angled scopes have a lot of advantages: You need a shorter tripod, they're far better for scanning treetops (or high mountains, e.g. in the Alps), they're much easier to share with people who're taller or shorter than you and so on. [...]

Hermann

I wouldn't mind to use an angled scope, either with "Kimmo's cable tie finder" (very nice!) or with my red dot sight. However, I usually spend my birding day walking around and shooting BIF. Standing behind a tripod is not to my taste. Only two hours around noon I'll sit in a hide, relax and watch the waders 150m away. In this wetland reservation in 90+% of the cases I look down from a dam. With rare exceptions, e.g. peregrines on a power plant. Overall I tend to prefer a straight scope like the TSN-4.

Thanks again for the good advice from you and from Joachim. I'll see if I can find an affordable TSN-xxx. :t:
 
I am pretty sure you are right and using a TSN-3/4 (77mm) with the Opticron zoom would be a major optical improvement over the Minox. The latter didn't weight much (1.035g), but I often left it at home, it wasn't much fun to look through. I see the TSN-4 (newer version) weighs 1.285g, plus 270g (EP).

The new version with the protective glass in front of the prisms might not work with the Opticron zoom...

Joachim
 
Some threads discuss the Opticron HDF T zoom vs the SDLv2, basically (it seems) saving 100 Euro for accepting that it's not fully sealed and therefore needs more care in the field. Would the HDF T zoom also fit on a TSN 3/4?

To return to the main topic "weight" - I can often use a hide clamp instead of a tripod. 200g vs 800g... ;-)
 
The HDF has beside the absence of fully sealing the 'drawback' of lesser apparent field of view vs. v2: HDF 40 - 58° -> v2 36 - 68° . I'm using the v2 with the MM4-60, and it's tack sharp to the edges in every magnification. The AFV of the v2 is very low in miminal mag, the real field is exakt the same with 20x; I'm using 15x so only if the maximal exit pupils is needed (e.g. dawn).
You can read the specs via the Opticron-USA site (older version), the new english HP is worse in my opinion.

I don't know the optical characteristics of your Kowa, and if it works beyond the mechanical issues with the desired zoom(s).

good view for Wirtanen
Manfred
 
Hi,

the HDF zoom part number 40862 is said to work too on Kowa TSN-1/2/3/4 (older versions w/o protective glass in front of prisms) though I have not personally tried it.

I only know the SDLv2 which is great on my TSN-3.

Joachim
 
Hello wachipilotes,

You could consider the Meopta Meostar S1 75 HD (APO). It is a FIRST QUALITY light (not ultralight) Spotting Scope. Come with 20-60x eyepiece and a amazing 30x Wide Angle one.

Good Luck!

PHA
 
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